Yeh, I'm pretty sure Ian Curtis's friends and loved ones would agree that his disaffection was contrived and needless. I think that much was obvious by the way he just snapped out of it, pulled himself together and stopped feeling sorry for himself.
If, on the other hand, that's an accusation you're levelling at fans rather than the band ... aye, fair play some of the time, I guess. Even so, I think you're missing something deeper ... but I would say that, wouldn't I?
― grimly fiendish, Monday, 8 December 2008 21:36 (fifteen years ago) link
other two!
lol this is comically impossible. I am a typical ILXor in revering these two bands as the apotheosis of punk/post-punk respectively. J.D. had 0% filler in their lean, brilliant, tragically abbreviated career. N.O. had plenty of dud moments and some latter-day meh albums, but their many career highs rank as some of my very favorite music. I do not think I can vote. I probably will eventually, but it will be arbitrary.
― D'Andrelo, the gay white ex-con (Pillbox), Monday, 8 December 2008 21:46 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm not talking about the people behind the music, just about music itself. I'm sure Curtis had plenty of reasons to feel the way he did, but that doesn't make the music any more appealing to me.
― Tuomas, Monday, 8 December 2008 22:12 (fifteen years ago) link
New Order, easy
― baaderonixx, Monday, 8 December 2008 22:22 (fifteen years ago) link
Tuomas: OK, but I still think "cult of personality" is an odd accusation to level at, er, music ;)
― grimly fiendish, Monday, 8 December 2008 23:42 (fifteen years ago) link
(ie as opposed to at a person, or people).
― grimly fiendish, Monday, 8 December 2008 23:45 (fifteen years ago) link
I know it's been talked to death , but I did just want to prove it by science with a poll.
― The All-Singing All-Dancing Unstoppable Kate (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 00:21 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm going for NO but hate having to choose. JD had such a huge impact on the 16 year old Trifle but the fact that they came out of that and made another band who were incredible for such a long time gives them the edge. Also, over the years, I've had to argue that NO are the GREATEST BAND EVER so many times, I think I actually believe it now, even though the 2 JD albums + Atmosphere + LWTUA are just about as perfect a discography as you could have. Oh, damn it I'm starting talk myself out of my vote.
― Holden McGroin (Ned Trifle II), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 00:41 (fifteen years ago) link
I've just realised that you are right, New Order *are* the greatest. band. ever. This is kind of earth-shattering and paradigm-shifting for me.
― The All-Singing All-Dancing Unstoppable Kate (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 00:45 (fifteen years ago) link
...now I'm gonna go watch Barney in short shorts some more!
lol. Short shorts and white high tops.
― redmond, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 11:42 (fifteen years ago) link
New Order
― negotiable, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 11:50 (fifteen years ago) link
I have tried with Joy Div, but apart from the singles and a few ISOLATIoNNN!! ISolAtionnnn! ahem.. isolated tracks, I can't muster up the love.
NO, though.. easy.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 11:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Joy Division didn't last long enough to be usefully compared with New Order - if that makes any sense
― Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 11:59 (fifteen years ago) link
If you discount their earliest days, Joy Division made surprisingly few missteps. Their oeuvre is small but perfect. Of their fifty odd songs, there are probably only two or three I don't much like. New Order are a bit more hit and miss, some of their stuff has dated more, some of Bernard's doggerel comes close to ruining good songs, some of their remixes aren't too good, I don't especially care for their last couple of albums. And I can't imagine Ian Curtis doing World In Motion.
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 12:51 (fifteen years ago) link
or "Anarchy in the UK" still, they were not kidding about their version of "Louie Louie" right?
― Mark G, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 12:54 (fifteen years ago) link
IC died young. He may have turned into an embarrasing old fart like the rest of us too.
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 13:07 (fifteen years ago) link
I can't imagine Ian Curtis doing World In Motion.
Talk about missed opportunities!
― Ca-hoot na na na oh oh (HI DERE), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 14:43 (fifteen years ago) link
I suspect IC would have been a fun-hating negative influence on NO's continued development. Part of what makes NO great is their total willingness to make utter fools of themselves - World In Motion, playing on the Babewatch set - because their willingness to make fools of themselves results in genius just as often as it does in foolishness.
― The All-Singing All-Dancing Unstoppable Kate (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 15:09 (fifteen years ago) link
Bull props to Barney for not becoming a new "ian" even though there were many impersonators, and not writing overached poetry in response to Ian's great writing.
I know that's damning with faint praise to say the least, but they would have come unstuck trying to continue 'with the good work'...
― Mark G, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 15:12 (fifteen years ago) link
bull props? Ahem, full props, obv.
Is that a rugby union term or sumptin'?
― Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 15:13 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm still boggling at the idea of Ian Curtis grumping his way through "World In Motion".
― Ca-hoot na na na oh oh (HI DERE), Tuesday, 9 December 2008 15:22 (fifteen years ago) link
haha me too
― baaderonixx, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 15:23 (fifteen years ago) link
eeeeeeeeeng-errrrrrrrrrrr-land
Maybe he could have done the rap bit.
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 15:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Would Ian Curtis ever perform in boxer shorts, tall white socks and loafers?
i doubt it.
NEW ORDER!
― brotherlovesdub, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 19:52 (fifteen years ago) link
I love Barney's scratched on the back of a napkin between cups of tea lyrics.
― leavethecapital, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 22:16 (fifteen years ago) link
Which is funny because 'scratched on the back of a napkin between cups of tea' is a lyric from an unreleased song during the Brotherhood sessions.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 22:17 (fifteen years ago) link
(The song was of course called "A Corner.")
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 22:18 (fifteen years ago) link
There's Pernod in that tea, I imagine.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 22:19 (fifteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Monday, 15 December 2008 00:01 (fifteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 00:01 (fifteen years ago) link
i may have voted for the same group twice
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 00:06 (fifteen years ago) link
Well, I'm satisfied with those results.
― Ironic Erection - LOLFAP LOLFAP LOLFAP (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 11:14 (fifteen years ago) link
We won!
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 11:17 (fifteen years ago) link
Very satisfactory. JD are awesome but NO are the awesomest. Am listening to Perfect Kiss now.
― Holden McGroin (Ned Trifle II), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 12:05 (fifteen years ago) link
This is the way things must be.
― Millsner, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 01:42 (fifteen years ago) link
fail!
― what U cry 4 (jim), Wednesday, 17 December 2008 02:07 (fifteen years ago) link
IN THE END YOU WILL SUBMIT IT'S GOT TO HURT YOU A LITTLE BITI need help. Please, I need help.
Theives Like Us. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/R_XX4q45FR8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/R_XX4q45FR8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:19 (fifteen years ago) link
Fuck it all
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:20 (fifteen years ago) link
"I've lived my life on alcohol/I've lived my life on pills/it's called love/and it's the only thing worth living for"
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:21 (fifteen years ago) link
Just shove your Blue Monday up your ass, give up. Forget it.
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:22 (fifteen years ago) link
Bizarre Love Triangle fuckers can come out of the closet now and DIE, just DIE.
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:23 (fifteen years ago) link
Man, I didn't see this thread until now. ;_;
The answer is Joy Division, btw.
― Someone Still Loves You Evan and Jaron (Tape Store), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:25 (fifteen years ago) link
Thank you Tape Store!!! :)
Oh just fuck it all
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:26 (fifteen years ago) link
Grimly, help. Where is grimly when I need him?
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:27 (fifteen years ago) link
Anyway we can agree to disagree on Joy Division. Everything will be fine. Don't worry. We can agree to disagree.
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:28 (fifteen years ago) link
and it helps your lifelike a broken knife
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:30 (fifteen years ago) link
Ian would have been so happy to see what the lads had done with synthesizers.
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 05:31 (fifteen years ago) link
a steady hand
― Millsner, Friday, 2 January 2009 06:25 (fifteen years ago) link
I hate you all you're going to make me have a vinyl orgasm in about 45 seconds
― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Friday, 2 January 2009 06:37 (fifteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mm6ycEz2A8
― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 15 July 2009 00:53 (fourteen years ago) link
Okay what the hell
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:25 (twelve years ago) link
that is just bizarre all the way around
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:57 (twelve years ago) link
gah. jamie oliver is everywhere.
― kid steel (cajunsunday), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
Explains why the New Order remastering has been such a problem. I can hear Keith Allen now: "Nah, mate, the original tapes went missing..."
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:00 (twelve years ago) link
Guns, jewelry and Factory masters? I bet the police can beat this out of Bez.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
Shaun was all ready to call Tony Wilson with the ransom demands but then couldn't remember where he left everything and soon forgot there was a stash house in the first place.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:04 (twelve years ago) link
crazy. hopefully we'll see something neat come from those tapes provided Hooky and Barney can talk to each other long enough to get it done
― Edward Bax, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 00:20 (twelve years ago) link
Hooky found the original master for "Unknown Pleasures" in much the same way, in the basement of the Hacienda. According to his book, it was acting as grounding for the dance floor.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 00:23 (twelve years ago) link
The Onion weighs in
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 16 February 2012 16:50 (twelve years ago) link
Hopefully the masters are in pretty good shape. I seem to remember Robert Smith saying a few years back that the masters to 'Seventeen Seconds' got severely damaged.
― Turrican, Friday, 17 February 2012 23:05 (twelve years ago) link
this wasn't true, btw, it was clarified elsewhere that this situation is the one hook outlined as happeneing several years ago. people misinterpreted oliver's tweet.
― akm, Friday, 17 February 2012 23:54 (twelve years ago) link
Alan Mcgee is flogging off all his old shit and it contains many, many items of interest to the New Order / Joy Division obsessive such as myself (but please don't bid on item 91 because I want that for sentimentral reasons - k thanx)
New Order stuff
Joy Division stuff
― Ned Trifle X, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 11:54 (twelve years ago) link
aww i was hoping one of the t-shirts was the one with ian with head in hands & lots of small orange squares at the bottom - they were everywhere c. 1983-5 and i'd get all sentimental for one of those (+ that photocopied book collecting music press clippings & badly transcribed lyrics!)
― zappi, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 12:29 (twelve years ago) link
Which one is item 91? You can't tell until after you've clicked on one.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 12:32 (twelve years ago) link
"Prev Lot | Next Lot" on right hand side once you've clicked on one
― zappi, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 12:37 (twelve years ago) link
It's a poster for a gig in 1988 with the Mondays and ACR. I went with the woman who is now Mrs. Trifle (awwww...).
― Ned Trifle X, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:23 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/omega-auctions/catalogue-id-2855969/lot-13310497
― Ned Trifle X, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 21:24 (twelve years ago) link