Blame the parents, blame the schools, the first bit of Johnson's comment sounds suspiciously like lyrics from early nineties Fraggle bargain-binners Back to the Planet. But the second part is essentially correct imho - this is what Rosie should be concentrating on.
The argument that 'ned' is only used of poor people who are nuisances reminds me of neo-nazi's attempts to use the n-word - claiming it doesn't refer to all black people, only those who don't work or commit crime.
Oh, c'mon Kevin, that's ridiculous. The example you give abuses a whole race of ppl who had already suffered terrible oppression. You can't compare a term which is sufficiently nebulous as to lead to debate as to whether an individual belongs to the grouping or not with one which unambiguously abuses an entire racial group.
― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 07:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 28 May 2004 07:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 07:48 (nineteen years ago) link
One thing that strikes me about the rise of the BNP and the fall of the National Front is a play for respectability - the National Front bought out mainstream images of skinheads and graffiti on public toilets, the BNP is characterised by the suited, educated Nick Griffin who appears on Newsnight, and reports about Jewish (!) candidates.
But the refusal of mainstream Britain to accept them (BBC newsreader's faces still frown when they mention the BNP, they are only to be spoken of in a tone of high disapproval) pleases me, even if their attitudes and support are being fuelled by the same people (the Sun, the Mail, the Express) that would otherwise decry them. This strikes me as being a far greater problem - sooner or later Griffin won't be saying anything other than what you can read in any tabloid newspaper - maybe he already is.
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 07:57 (nineteen years ago) link
There speaks someone who has no idea what he's talking about.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:40 (nineteen years ago) link
However, Labour's Duncan McNeill said that the word ned was used to refer to young criminals rather than all young people.
He said: "What are we supposed to call them - the guys that hang about the streets? Tracksuit ambassadors?
Thus undermining his whole point. Twat.
It's this conflation of clothing and criminality that's where the crap starts.
Ach, I said all this already on the making fun of poor people thread.
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:45 (nineteen years ago) link
Bingo!
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:46 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:50 (nineteen years ago) link
(this isn't a rhetorical question - I'm interested)
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:51 (nineteen years ago) link
But there are (for instance) very very posh kids in north london who dress and act this way. I don't know if they are criminals, I expect even if they committed crimes they wouldn't be labelled criminals, unlike their working class counterparts.
― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― zappi (joni), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:59 (nineteen years ago) link
As far as I can see no one is saying that you should, other than 'labour's duncan mcneil'
― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:03 (nineteen years ago) link
actually, i do know what you mean, neds are kind of anti-social but not necessarily involved in crime to the extent they could be seriously labelled 'criminals'.
― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:12 (nineteen years ago) link
People who are playing the 'you don't know what you're talking about, you haven't lived it' card don't seem to all agree about what it means themselves, which is why I tend to find that card so lame in arguments.
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:16 (nineteen years ago) link
i suppose that some people get frustrated with being told they can't use certain words by people who know very little about the culture they're trying to defend (for example that it isn't a solely working class phenom)
― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:27 (nineteen years ago) link
You're right of course but I only know what it means to me and the people I grew up with - I don't think I was even aware of the term until my early teens, which is when kids start taking their separate directions in life. You know, you become a "swat" because you're good in school, he said bitterly.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:39 (nineteen years ago) link
Really depressing.
― MikeB, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:53 (nineteen years ago) link
How do you think the working/middle (i.e. those above the criminal classes you mention) classes would react to vulnerable asylum seekers being put into "good" areas, with nice houses and gardens? The redtops would have a field day with that one. Those in Sighthill may be exhibiting a nimby mentality, but then again many the poor bastards don't even *have* back yards. It's a ridiculous area for anyone to have to live in, whether they're fleeing oppresion or not.
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 29 May 2004 21:02 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 29 May 2004 22:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 29 May 2004 23:06 (nineteen years ago) link
N - I might be. I dunno - I'm not proud of labelling areas or classes like that but it's been something I've noticed considerably more in 25 years of living round here.
Is it really such a leap to imagine that coupled in with the desire to move out of said urban areas is an attempt to get away from black/Asian people as much as it is an attempt to get away from all those working classes they're trying to get away from. The difference being that in all these areas - Beckenham, Bromley, I'll throw Essex in here as well, are on the outskirts of cities, on the fringe of more working-class areas like Lewisham or Walthamstow or wherever.
These areas are populated, generally speaking, by people who have moved out from their closest area of London - largely working class, largely beneficiaries of Thatcherism. So an Asian family is a symptomatic of everything my straw man trying to get away from?
This isn't to discount the fact that there are racists in Dulwich, Blackheath or Hampstead, but I've never noticed it being quite so overt as I have in, say, Bromley, where I once had to run up the high street to get away from some racist twats who tried it in a pub.
― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 29 May 2004 23:27 (nineteen years ago) link
Should people feel a duty to fit into a neighbourhood? Are there 'nice' aspects of neighbourhood that rely on cultural homogenity?
― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 30 May 2004 00:28 (nineteen years ago) link
Poach Trisha from ITV and lock her in a windowless room full of clueless council estate scumbags
This cunt Brooker better pray he never runs into me - don't try it! But seriously, this kind of repulsive snobbishness seems acceptable among the "middle classes" these days, even in a liberal rag like the Guardian. Cunts.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Sunday, 30 May 2004 07:43 (nineteen years ago) link
Unite Against Fascism - organising a nationwide campaign against the BNP around the June 10 elections ... www.uaf.org.ukLove Music Hate Racism - gigs, raves, carnivals against racism and fascism ... www.lmhr.org.uk
ta
― lee b, Sunday, 30 May 2004 11:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 30 May 2004 11:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 30 May 2004 12:17 (nineteen years ago) link
As far as I'm aware, there is not such a surplus of accommodation in Milngavie.
― Madchen (Madchen), Sunday, 30 May 2004 14:24 (nineteen years ago) link
Madchen, it's always amazed me just how urgently needed and desirable high-rise flats suddenly become, usually by people who've turned down similar housing, when asylum seekers move into them.
― suzy (suzy), Sunday, 30 May 2004 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link
As for the Royal Mail delivering this crud, well that’s the biggest irony of all, if only they’d done that last time around!
― Plinky (Plinky), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 11:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 11:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Plinky (Plinky), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 13:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 13:23 (nineteen years ago) link
Stelfox and Mark C = perfect additions to a Calum thread
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 6 July 2007 08:50 (sixteen years ago) link