Bogart learns to love La Resistance: Casablanca vs To Have And Have Not

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'his girl friday' is the most entertaining movie ever if you see it on the big screen -- pretty much just nonstop lols, and the most amazing cary grant performance there is -- even the way he moves is kind of hilarious. i used to think the serious bits slowed it down, but they worked for me last time i saw it.

has anyone actually read the hemingway novel 'to have and have not'? is it anything like the movie?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 26 February 2011 05:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

the really great hawks movie that no one talks about is the original 'scarface.' it's also the meanest and most atypical of his movies: still kind of bracingly harsh and violent, and not a wisecracking, boyish dame or lovable band of misfit professionals in sight.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 26 February 2011 05:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think Hathaway is a hack who made many more bad and mediocre movies than hawks.

bamcquern, Saturday, 26 February 2011 08:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

I have the feeling you'd decided all this before actually even seeing this film. STICK IT TO THE CLASSIC FILM FAN GERONTOCRACY LOUIS, YUO ALONE CAN REWRITE FILM CRITICAL HISTORY!#@.

hawks knew how to tell stories, curtiz knew how to...point a camera?

This is really pretty sad and ignorant IMO.

lycanthrope electrif (Pashmina), Saturday, 26 February 2011 09:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

not true. went into THAHN thinking 'well my friend's invited me to this and it might be ok' and had my mind blown. went into casablanca thinking 'this is meant to be awesome, please make my 30-hour plane journey more tolerable' and i guess it did at least do that

acoleuthic, Saturday, 26 February 2011 09:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

Maybe, but The other is a strong candidate for the most overrated film of all time. Your job is to work out which one is which, and agree with me. and suchlike doesn't come across like that, it comes across like your main motivation is to be ilx gadfly #1. This is probably why ppl are not engaging w you and just taking potshots for the most part.

lycanthrope electrif (Pashmina), Saturday, 26 February 2011 10:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

only the actor who plays Louis has me in any way convinced

i am convinced as well ... that louis is trolling

sarahel, Saturday, 26 February 2011 10:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

next he'll be calling Verigo unbelievable and silly, which will put me in a slowly-I-turn lather.

I prefer romantic desperation to sassy seductions, so I don't think there's anything in the Hawks movie like Bergman balling her fist after she says "Kiss me as if it were the last time" to Bogart in Paris. Also, the Marseillaise scene makes me cry every time, and I won't even stand for The Star-Spangled Banner.

I think Hemingway made some joke about how there's almost nothing from his book in TH&HN. I would like to see it again, along with the fucking thousand other movies I'd like to rewatch. Does LJ know that Curtiz remade this movie in '50 w/ John Garfield?

love Scarface '32.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 February 2011 13:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

vertigo's stupid, never saw the big deal about it

ℳℴℯ ❤\(◕‿◕✿ (Princess TamTam), Saturday, 26 February 2011 13:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

also, "I am shocked...shocked" among the most-quoted character actor lines of all time.

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, February 19, 2011 9:45 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark

haha i only recently realized where this thing i have said lots of times came from

haven't seen either of these films in a long-ass time

even though bacall and bergman set new standards for screen beauty, they're both pretty far down my list of 'great movies', but 'casablanca' is better

this odyssey that refuses to quit calling itself (history mayne), Saturday, 26 February 2011 13:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

I said upthread that I think Casablanca's a little overrated, and I'll stand by that. One Curtiz film I think is underrated is Mildred Pierce. It was a long time before I watched it--always assumed it'd be really stagy and drippy--and when I finally did, I was surprised by its weirdness, how it's much more of a noir than the soap opera I was expecting, and how artful the camerawork is.

clemenza, Saturday, 26 February 2011 14:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

my challops of the day: Bergman's performance in Casablanca (distracted, confused, which makes sense if you know the movie's back story) is one of her least persuasive.

Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 26 February 2011 14:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

Mildred Pierce is great, but is it really underrated?

ℳℴℯ ❤\(◕‿◕✿ (Princess TamTam), Saturday, 26 February 2011 14:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

As I said, I much preferred Carol Burnett's Mildred Fierce, after which the Crawford version can only seem a giggle. The Cain book is sumthin, lookin fwd to the Haynes miniseries.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 February 2011 14:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

I don't how you measure such things, by my sense is that Mildred Pierce is underrated--that what's great about has been overwhelmed by Crawford's persona, and that it's been reduced to caricature by things like the Carol Burnett parody (which I don't remember, but I'm sure it's great).

clemenza, Saturday, 26 February 2011 14:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well, but I've seen a major Crawford reevaluation in recent years: from renewed appreciation of her terrific no-frills performance in Daisy Kenyon to Denby's long essay a few months ago.

Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 26 February 2011 14:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

Also, the Marseillaise scene makes me cry every time

morbs! me too!

kl0p's son (k3vin k.), Saturday, 26 February 2011 15:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

has anyone actually read the hemingway novel 'to have and have not'? is it anything like the movie?

It has been many years, but iirc this was kind of his attempt to hack out a crime novel to a) make some quick money and perhaps b) show his hardboiled imitators how it was really done. It doesn't come off as a sustained narrative, maybe because it was written as short stories for magazines. It is much wilder than the movie, very violent and macho -- not as tough as Hammett, but a good imitation of the imitators. All the World War II stuff in the movie is Hollywood, not Hemingway.

I've picked it up a few times to re-read, but the creepy 30's racism keeps putting me off.

Brad C., Saturday, 26 February 2011 15:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

Hawks claimed Hemingway told him the book was "junk," but HH was known to embellish the truth.

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 February 2011 16:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

I don't how you measure such things, by my sense is that Mildred Pierce is underrated--that what's great about has been overwhelmed by Crawford's persona, and that it's been reduced to caricature by things like the Carol Burnett parody (which I don't remember, but I'm sure it's great).

― clemenza, Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:40 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

it's not really underrated. example: it's been adapted by todd haynes with kate winslett for hbo.

haven't read the book, but it's not a particularly interesting film, unless you specialize in a certain era of hollywood.

this odyssey that refuses to quit calling itself (history mayne), Saturday, 26 February 2011 17:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

one of Crawford's most boring performances too.

Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 26 February 2011 18:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

I always laugh when, during the diner montage, Crawford in voice-over says, "I got good tips and was happy to get them." I go, YEAH CUZ IF YOU DON'T GET THEM THAT POOR GUY'S GONNA BE SORRY.

Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 26 February 2011 18:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

it weirded me out when I found out winslet was playing MP because she feels so young to me still, but then i found out crawford was only 40 when she did it - still seems weird to me though

ℳℴℯ ❤\(◕‿◕✿ (Princess TamTam), Saturday, 26 February 2011 18:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

Mildred sposed to have been a young mother I think... (Anne Hathaway is going to be playing 'old' Judy Garland in a biopic, THAT's weird)

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 February 2011 18:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah that's part of the character, but STILL. i just don't want to accept winslet no longer being an ingenue or w/e i guess

ℳℴℯ ❤\(◕‿◕✿ (Princess TamTam), Saturday, 26 February 2011 18:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

she's been through two husbands, don't think she gets to be an ingenue

this odyssey that refuses to quit calling itself (history mayne), Saturday, 26 February 2011 18:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

perhaps costume will show off breeder hips

kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 February 2011 18:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

Also, the Marseillaise scene makes me cry every time

this is one of the best bits

THAHN is not ALL about sassy seduction - the main love-story is underplayed slightly (the kisses are passionate but fleeting) and the seduction stands for something grander and more escapist about grasping the moment. Plus, when the French couple come in later, injured and tired and deadly serious, there's grit and worry all right, just that it doesn't dominate the mood - it places bogart'n'bacall's happy-go-lucky shenanigans in perspective and gives the picture a more rounded feel

Did not know about the Curtiz remake. Probably owe it a watch now.

acoleuthic, Saturday, 26 February 2011 22:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think I've got it straight now with regards to Mildred Pierce: with rest of world, not underrated; on ILX, underrated.

clemenza, Saturday, 26 February 2011 22:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Surprisingly, I couldn't find any Bogart threads (perhaps time for a poll?), but I'm reviving just to post this:

Damn.

Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Monday, 7 May 2012 06:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Boo! Anyway, it was the bookstore scene from The Big Sleep with Dorothy Malone.

Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Monday, 7 May 2012 06:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Only watched African Queen for the first time the other day and it completely changed my perception of Bogie. He's so goofy in it!

I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 9 July 2013 17:14 (1 year ago) Permalink


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