what is sexist exactly about the rolling stones' under my thumb?

I just heard "No Scrubs" again. Still far more sexist than "Under My Thumb."

black girls just want to get fucked all night

The way he says "pet" mostly.

One of my bandmates the other day said he didn't understand why people got so worked up about "Brown Sugar." "Basically," he said, "the song's about Mick wanting to fuck black women. It can't be racist if it's about something racists would disapprove of."

ironclad logic

what is sexist exactly about "he hit me (and it felt like a kiss)"?

"Scarred old slaver know he's doin' alright..."

xp

sallyhemmings.jpg

I read the book "Electric Ladyland," and a good point that was made was that many songs that are considered sexist often aren't. The best test of sexism is to reverse the genders of the subject and the artist and see if the song would still make sense on a cultural level. In the case of "Under My Thumb," it would be a song, sung by a female, about (to quote Wikipedia, since I don't remember the lyrics all that well anymore) the satisfaction of finally having controlled and gained leverage over a previously pushy, dominating partner, which doesn't seem all that bizarre So sexism in music, in their view, is not a power struggle on a personal level, but rather the exploitation of gender roles on a broader scale.

oh pish. That's only true if gender roles exist in a vacuum.

Every time I see your dick I see her cunt in my bed.

Jagger sounds a rather weak character in this song. Like it's taken him years to get in the power position.

It's not the cold, calculating sound of an alpha-male, but that of a loser who's latched on to either a circumstantial personal misfortune or a shady manipulation technique to get one over their partner.

Is there possibly a more sexist song than Rod Stewart's "Tonight's The Night"?

Every song on the first Strangler's album. Except the one about rats.

Which is appallingly rodentist, btw.

The best test of sexism is to reverse the genders of the subject and the artist and see if the song would still make sense on a cultural level.

orly

"Tonight's The Night" isn't sexist at all! How can you hear Stewart's vocal and call it sexist?

oh pish. That's only true if gender roles exist in a vacuum.

It's hardly a foolproof litmus test but at least it exposes the sexism of thinking that any song that happens to fit with traditional gender/relationship roles is automatically sexist.

Maybe he meant "Tonight I'm Yours"? (Or maybe not - I don't know the lyrics to either one, myself.)

xpost

thinking that any song that happens to fit with traditional gender/relationship roles is automatically sexist.

I don't think that at all! I don't think this is about gender roles at all, really. It's about hostility. This "Yeah, bitch, I got you now" vibe. "The squirmin dog whos just had her day," etc. If she's such a bitch, why do you care, Mick?

re: Stewart:

C'mon angel my hearts on fire
Don't deny your man's desire
You'd be a fool to stop this tide
Spread your wings and let me come inside

Well, ok. Seems maybe a touch pushy. It a tip-toe-y subject anyway, taking a girl's virginity. But honestly, it doesn't bother me too much, since so much of the rest or the lyrics are about putting her at ease, lowering the lights, stuff like that. And it's such a pretty song. It's kinda romantic, really.

So you DON'T think the song is sexist then?

"I'm going to fuck you and you're not gonna fight it!"

No, no... he's asking.

So you DON'T think the song is sexist then?

Which song? Under My Thumb, definitely. Tonight's the Night rides a thin line, but comes out on the good side of it.

"You'd be a fool to stop this tide" is a bit more than "pushy," I think.

I still don't think it's sexist. People express hostility towards their significant others and engage in power struggles all the time, but sexism has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, the word "fool" does bother me. But in context, he's trying to say that she'll like it. "It's gonna be alright."

http://oldpoetry.com/opoem/44931-Arthur-Rimbaud-First-Evening

Heard this one yesterday at a bar and remembered how good it is after years of not touching it. Probably a top 10 Rolling Stones' song for me.

Head over heels on those misogynistic marimbas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcgZIz0Fd-w

Love Brian Jones' air marimba

this song's perfect musically. i tuned into it on the radio mid-song and there's just something glorious about the way all the instruments come together. like a beautiful accident.

i have no idea what the hell frank k. was on about upthread, though.

OTM