Walter Bishop definitely the best character on this show. LET'S MAKE SOME LSD! I love that he's basically playing the same deranged old dude he did in Lord of the Rings, only a FRINGE SCIENTIST instead of a STALWART STEWARD OF GONDOR.
― BODY PROP (nickalicious), Saturday, 13 September 2008 19:14 (4 years ago) Permalink
I really didn't like the pilot when I saw it last week, but weirdly it's grown on me over the week. I'm actually sorta looking forward to it tonight. Is this usual with Abrams' stuff? It sucks during the watching, but you recollect it fondly later?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 16 September 2008 08:25 (4 years ago) Permalink
is joshua jackson playing george clooney or what
― gr8080 (max), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 01:13 (4 years ago) Permalink
Damn, how the hell did they get away with that gory shit, the surgeries, the eyeball (UGH), on public TV? I was seriously turned off by it. The rest of the episode was okay, I guess.
― Nhex, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 02:12 (4 years ago) Permalink
Didn't seem any more graphic than any given House episode.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 02:23 (4 years ago) Permalink
the eyeball was totally loltastic
― lol (HI DERE), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 02:58 (4 years ago) Permalink
This was awful. First episode wasn't great or anything, but it wasn't this bad. I don't even mind the clunky-as-fuck exposition of the first 5 minutes. The dream-sequence pregnancy thing? Yeah, I saw Aliens. The last image from the eye? I saw Wild Wild West too.
Felt like they were already out of ideas.
― Gukbe, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 03:01 (4 years ago) Permalink
That played-out jaded horseshit stance where folks show off that they've watched movies and TV shows and read books and remember things from them and act like hot shit when they find these things in other movies / shows / books? Yeah, I liked it better when they didn't share.
― David R., Wednesday, 17 September 2008 03:34 (4 years ago) Permalink
Expected Chris Carter, got Joss Whedon.
― Kerm, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 03:56 (4 years ago) Permalink
Clearly, I really will watch Lance Riddick in anything.
― rogermexico., Wednesday, 17 September 2008 04:31 (4 years ago) Permalink
Lance is class.
xxpost
I'm not one for "I've seen this done elsewhere", nor do I think calling back upon Wild Wild West is anyway anyone can consider themselves hot shit. The point is really that a writer (or writers) should do well enough for someone not to notice. The eye thing has been done many, many times before, and it is usually a pretty cheap trick when someone's written themselves into a hole/can't be bothered to come up with something better. And the Aliens gag was weak.
I think I just find the world they've set up to be jarring and inconsistent. I don't mind being derivative, certainly not of genre tropes in a genre show, but they've got to help the viewers a bit. If you want to make a campy sci-fi/horror show, then do it. If you want a scary, serious thriller, then do that. There is no sense of humour in this show as far as I can tell, unless the cow thing was meant to be funny.
Kerm OTM, but at least Whedon seemed to have a sense of humour. He would willingly acknowledge from the get-go that the Hellmouth and Willow's hacking abilities was just an easy out for the writers, who were more interested in character anyway. I was hoping for a quality X-files deal, and I'll take a campy paranoid fantasy in its stead, but I can't be bothered with some inconsistent series aiming for somewhere in the middle, especially when it's as dull as this one.
I think I'm just disappointed, really. Hopefully it will get better, but I'm worried that it feels like they ran out of ideas in the second episode. Sorry if I offended you David R.
― Gukbe, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 06:47 (4 years ago) Permalink
for the record, other than the seatwarmer gag I'm really really failing to see the whedon in this.
― rogermexico., Wednesday, 17 September 2008 07:09 (4 years ago) Permalink
Still dig Blair Brown, Lance Reddick and John Noble, but the other actors still have a ways to go. The pilot already lowered my expectations about the monster-of-the-week plots, I agree with the mediocrity as Gukbe describes.
― Nhex, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 07:42 (4 years ago) Permalink
Definitely neither Chris Carter nor Joss Whedon. The former had really sharp character work every episode and the latter had a sense of humor. I think what really disappoints me the most is the female protagonist. I can't even remember her name she's so unmemorable. I don't know if she's just getting awful writing from the writers, or she's just a poor actress.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 07:55 (4 years ago) Permalink
they really fucked themselves by starting this show off admitting there's a "pattern" to all of these things. oh, and the old guy just happened to work on anything involved in the pattern. magic computer can tell you EXACTLY where magic photo from dead girl's eye was taken. there weren't enough machinas in this episode for deuseses to be ex-ing from.
― REIGN IN FUDGE (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 09:26 (4 years ago) Permalink
HOWEVER, i am still giving it a shot. but along with house tonight, this was kinda like fox's "ugh, come on, no way" tuesday.
― REIGN IN FUDGE (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 09:27 (4 years ago) Permalink
I actually liked House tonight. But I don't think I've ever seen a House ep that I didn't enjoy.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 09:34 (4 years ago) Permalink
The point is really that a writer (or writers) should do well enough for someone not to notice. The eye thing has been done many, many times before, and it is usually a pretty cheap trick when someone's written themselves into a hole/can't be bothered to come up with something better. And the Aliens gag was weak.
As you might've gathered, it didn't really chafe me quite as much, tho I can't recall the eye thing being done before, and you can't really do a pregnancy "gag" without inadvertently referencing "Aliens". But to each their own -- I've got plenty of reservations about this thing (including my fear that it's going to resort to having a WACKY SCIENCE GIMMICK for every episode) (oooh do cold fusion next!), but I'm not not enjoying it. One request, tho (since the show makers are of course reading this): more Kirk Acevedo.
BTW, Gubke, sorry for getting pissy w/ my earlier comment. (I blame the internet.)
― David R., Wednesday, 17 September 2008 14:19 (4 years ago) Permalink
They Macgyver defibrillator bit was just ridiculous.
― I'm right right and you're wrong left (Susan), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 14:22 (4 years ago) Permalink
the pregnant thing made me think of cronenberg's "shivers," but that's because "shivers" was on flix the day before yesterday.
― REIGN IN FUDGE (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 14:28 (4 years ago) Permalink
more Kirk Acevedo
And maybe a Dean Winters cameo amirite?
― rogermexico., Wednesday, 17 September 2008 15:06 (4 years ago) Permalink
This show would be better if it had Cate Blanchett in it instead of her doppleganger.
― lol (HI DERE), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 15:13 (4 years ago) Permalink
that's the name i was lookig for last night!
― carne asada, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 15:18 (4 years ago) Permalink
The only character in this show that is remotely endearing, entertaining or empathy inducing is Walter Bishop. This show sucks because all of the characters suck.
― Carl Magnusssen (petey_carnum), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 15:24 (4 years ago) Permalink
Yeah...I liked last night's episode way better than the pilot, but mainly just because they really didn't have enough story to fill out 90 minutes and it works much better as an hour. Walter Bishop is definitely the best part of the cast but he's treading a fine line of occasional, somewhat unexpected wackiness right now and that character could get tiresome or cheesy very quickly if they don't handle it right. Shows like this with a 'strong female lead' that don't bother casting a good actress or writing much of a personality for the character are so depressing.
― some dude, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 15:48 (4 years ago) Permalink
So what is the playing god part, is the kid a clone of Walter or just otherwise genetically messed with?
― mh, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 16:39 (4 years ago) Permalink
The only character in this show that is remotely endearing, entertaining or empathy inducing is Walter Bishop
Statement fails to account for RIDDICK FACTOR
― rogermexico., Thursday, 18 September 2008 00:55 (4 years ago) Permalink
I'm annoyed by the LOST music being recycled.
Also, yes, Joshua Jackson is just a bizarre form of Pacey - does he have any way of delivering his lines beyond bored/upset/ironic?"Yah dad, we sorta figured that out. OK? You can't retrieve images from eyeballs."
The show is pretty goofy - the previews made me yell "Don't steal from heroes!", and then my BF and I had a conversation about episodic series and, I dunno, chapter series.. I don;t know what the definitions are between the two. Episodic, to me, would imply episodes. But that's not the case?
― aimurchie, Thursday, 18 September 2008 01:22 (4 years ago) Permalink
Episodic means self-contained, largely, as opposed to serialized what's-its.
I'd even take the original Poor Man's Cate Blanchett, Sarah Wynter, over whoever plays Olivia.
lol @ Walter having the Doctor's hand-in-a-jar.
― Leee, Thursday, 18 September 2008 01:34 (4 years ago) Permalink
Was X-Files episodic or serialized or both? This is a serious question.
― aimurchie, Thursday, 18 September 2008 02:01 (4 years ago) Permalink
Both
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 September 2008 02:03 (4 years ago) Permalink
I'm not all that familiar with much of Joss Whedon's work... He's just my go-to whipping boy whenever plot devices, government conspiracies, and powerful underworlds are too flippant to take half seriously. That may be just as much an Abrams trademark, but I don't watch his shows either.
Joshua Jackson hasn't been half as interesting as the description of him in his "file" in the first episode.
― Kerm, Thursday, 18 September 2008 02:07 (4 years ago) Permalink
^^ wow do you not get Joss Whedon.
― rogermexico., Thursday, 18 September 2008 02:17 (4 years ago) Permalink
This show sucks because all of the characters suck.
― Leee, Thursday, 18 September 2008 02:26 (4 years ago) Permalink
Abrams is more the plot device/conspiracy guy and Whedon is more the touchy-feely clever homey dialogue dude, I thought
― mh, Thursday, 18 September 2008 02:27 (4 years ago) Permalink
Also: along with Aaron Sorkin, Whedon pretty much pioneered the serious treatment of season-as-arc in network drama.
― rogermexico., Thursday, 18 September 2008 02:34 (4 years ago) Permalink
Yeah, Kerm, I think you might be confusing Whedon with someone else.
― Mordy, Thursday, 18 September 2008 02:36 (4 years ago) Permalink
I mean the guy with the show about the high school cheerleader that fights demons.
― Kerm, Thursday, 18 September 2008 03:43 (4 years ago) Permalink
The West Wing?
― David R., Thursday, 18 September 2008 03:44 (4 years ago) Permalink
I kind of enjoyed this ep - goofy is the right word for it. This show has way more of an Alias vibe than Buffy/X-Files/Lost, right down to the bad sci-fi - never mind eyeball-imaging/accelerated growth, but also the gimmicky, guess-what-awesome-gadget-we're-using-this-week. Said gadget will probably never be used again, even when they inevitably start recycling plotlines.
Olivia looks more like Poppy Montgomery (another generic-TV aussie blonde) from Without A Trace than Cate Blanchett. She's still pretty bland but i think she might grow on me (whereas Pacey/dad are more likely to get tiresome fast) - in the same way i thought Jennifer Garner on Alias was pretty boring before that show's wtf-ness completely sucked me in.
― casino royale with cheese (Roz), Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:35 (4 years ago) Permalink
I would give this show kudos if I got any hint from the writing that it is intentionally goofy, and that the writers are aware; but I get none of that
still, it is utterly goofy and not unenjoyable; I wouldn't buy the DVDs or nuthin but I wouldn't step out if it were on
― cozen (cozwn), Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:39 (4 years ago) Permalink
also: it is the x-files
― cozen (cozwn), Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:40 (4 years ago) Permalink
I know ppl have said it above but it bears restating and restating: this show is the x-files
It is the x-files in content but not in form.
― casino royale with cheese (Roz), Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:42 (4 years ago) Permalink
The X-Files was good.
― I'm right right and you're wrong left (Susan), Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:43 (4 years ago) Permalink
good job outing the browncoats, Kerm
― some dude, Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:43 (4 years ago) Permalink
i saw the second episode of this. it's not the worst thing i've ever seen but i was happy to not get hooked on it at all (who has time to watch tv etc.).
― Jordan, Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:44 (4 years ago) Permalink
The X-Files didn't assume that putting something in the script made it believable.
― Kerm, Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:45 (4 years ago) Permalink
c'mon, dudes, first couple of x-files episodes aren't what the show is famous for...
― REIGN IN FUDGE (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:51 (4 years ago) Permalink
these guys could pull it out! i mean, they blew everything in their pilot but maybe...
― REIGN IN FUDGE (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 18 September 2008 15:55 (4 years ago) Permalink
Well done, j.
Caught up, again. The finale doesn't reach the heights of seasons 3 and parts of 4, but much better than the bulk of this season.
I wonder if Michael's ability to jack up Windmark was some passive ability where his innate FEELS shorted W's mindreading, or if Michael was making a particularly active point to bloody him up.
in the finale episodes someone says specifically that they chose that era because of the high chances of success (due to the pliability/docility of the human occupants then?) the era presented.
No one mentions anything in-story, but I'm sure that the technological development of "our" era is sufficiently useful for their purposes. Go back too far in time, and they're in the stone age, not far enough and I dunno, everyone's packing heat by then and are able to fend off their invasion.
when david robert jones originally hijacked those, were they already in use by the observers?
DRJ hijacked the shipping lanes? No recollection of that at all. I only remember him crossing over b/w universes.
Still confused about September's gunshot wound from last season, i.e. the stuff in the theater where he prophesies Olivia's death. I mean, he phased out on Walter's gurney in the lab, with the implication that he died, but I guess haha he didn't?
Bothered for half the finale about the treatment of paradoxes. For starters, if the Observers never become Observers, then they can't go back in time to watch and then intervene in Walter crossing over and saving Peter. So no Peter + Olivia and thus no Etta. What's more, Walter saying he'd be written out of time in rebooted 2015 because nature abhors a paradox -- buh? By my reckoning, Peter's the paradox, and if he's around at the time, September is, too. And from a character POV, why would Walter insist on escorting Michael instead of Sept. when Walter himself knows well the pain of sundering filial bonds? Did he just want to kick it in the future?
That said, I love Ashcan.
And Olivia's cortexiphan rage in the climax == hooray.
was there any need for that plot to be connected to the observers' invasion (and to september's attachment to the human beings of the time and his use of that period to hide michael)?
Unless I missed something, they didn't tie the Observers' invasion with Bell's utopia, no?
― SOPA Middleton (Leee), Monday, 21 January 2013 08:41 (4 months ago) Permalink
I enjoyed the finale and thought it made about as much sense as possible given the nature of the show.
― treefell, Monday, 21 January 2013 09:16 (4 months ago) Permalink
sorry, lee, i didn't phrase that right - i meant, it does look like there was no tie, and i was wondering if there was something in the plot that required a connection between them that i'm overlooking. kind of weird to have two enormous unconnected superweird things go on!
― j., Monday, 21 January 2013 09:29 (4 months ago) Permalink
yeah. i was taken aback by the other universe seeming basically observer-free too. it has seemed earlier on that the observers had some deeper connection to the multiple-universe stuff in particular.
i actually can't piece together either the fully connection between drj as enemy vs. walternate as enemy vs. bell as enemy.
certainly the observers played a role for a period in trying to suppress peter, so there was *some* broader connection.
― s.clover, Monday, 21 January 2013 09:45 (4 months ago) Permalink
jones was bell's agent.
― j., Monday, 21 January 2013 09:48 (4 months ago) Permalink
They originally meant to wrap the Bell/DRJ story up in season 4 because it wasn't clear that the show was going to be renewed. The Observers plot was only created once they knew they were getting one more season.
Yeah I was confused by this too - when Donald/September originally spoke to Walter about having to give Peter up, I thought he meant it was because September, having never existed, wouldn't be there to save Peter in the lake.
(You can go even further to say that Peter wouldn't even be in "our" universe, because September wouldn't have interrupted Walternate when he was creating the cure for Peter, so Walter wouldn't have needed to go over to the other side, and so Peter and Olivia would have never met in the first place).
But... time travel, eh? I was moved enough by John Noble and Joshua Jackson's performances that I honestly didn't care too much in the end. This show has always been less about the science and more about the effects of science on humanity - its great potential, as well as its burdens and limitations.
― Roz, Monday, 21 January 2013 09:58 (4 months ago) Permalink
The Observers seemed more like the Adjusters in The Adjustment Bureau, rather than unemotional future humans, originally. I thought they existed so that they could ensure certain events occurred according to some preexisting plan.
― Roz, Monday, 21 January 2013 10:06 (4 months ago) Permalink
Is this worth watching from the start? Have been meaning to get going on it for a while but all the initial impressions here are kind of underwhelmed. How long before it gets good?
― Matt DC, Monday, 21 January 2013 10:35 (4 months ago) Permalink
Worth it imo, though I wasn't fully on board until the first season finale, which blew my mind.
― Roz, Monday, 21 January 2013 10:41 (4 months ago) Permalink
I'm a bit confused about the future Walter and Michael travelled to--it would have to be a future in which the Observers had invaded a century or so before (since that's the present they were departing from), rather than the original future in which human scientists had started creating the Observers, right?
Also, how did past Walter know when to send Peter the tulip?
― President Keyes, Monday, 21 January 2013 11:18 (4 months ago) Permalink
I think the implication was that actions taken by people working outside of their own timelines would persist. All in all, pretty vague, though.
I'm probably the only one who cares but I hoped they would have a brief reference at the end to sending the universe-bridging machine back in time! There were a few things left hanging but I think that one was probably the most obvious. Didn't they establish that Walter and Peter had actually built it and then sent it back at some point, but in the plot of the show they never do so or explain how that came about.
Not that it matters either way. I think there's just a lot of cross-universe, cross-timeline detritus that exists in the show's universe.
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2013 15:22 (4 months ago) Permalink
Ah, that explains a LOT, structure-wise.
This show has always been less about the science
Hahaha omg truer have never been spoken, and I know I shouldn't let its plot holes and more egregious flights of fantasy bother me.
Didn't they establish that Walter and Peter had actually built it and then sent it back at some point
They did! I actually feel kind of shortchanged on this point, especially the stuff about how Walter actually wrote the weird German book has the kind of pulpy apocalyptic millenarianism that I eat up.
― SOPA Middleton (Leee), Monday, 21 January 2013 19:00 (4 months ago) Permalink
lol yes. Perhaps Walter hanging round in the future with Michael built the machine and sent it back. We know Walternate lived to at least age 90, so Walter has at least 20 years to tinker with technology from 2167.
― Roz, Monday, 21 January 2013 20:07 (4 months ago) Permalink
<i>Is this worth watching from the start? Have been meaning to get going on it for a while but all the initial impressions here are kind of underwhelmed. How long before it gets good?
― Matt DC, Monday, 21 January 2013 10:35 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink</i>
Roughly speaking:
It starts off kind of laughably bad in the first season, gradually becomes more entertaining (while remaining basically stupid), gets worse again, and then suddenly (around halfway through the second season) gets really, genuinely excellent.
Unfortunately (as is the way) you kind of have to watch the bad stuff for the good stuff to work (call this the "Cerebus Volume I Effect"). It peaks over the second half of season 2 to about halfway through season 3 - after that there's some less effective/WTF decisions about the over-arching plot, but it's still fun to hang around with the characters, and it never turns to self-parody.
The last season is mostly solid, and unlike Lost/BSG, the finale doesn't make you feel like a complete asshole for wasting your time for several years.
I'll miss it!
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 22 January 2013 12:42 (4 months ago) Permalink
...on the other hand, if you decide you can't be bothered, do download "White Tulip," which is probably the best ep, and works well as a standalone/taster.
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 22 January 2013 12:44 (4 months ago) Permalink
i've been kind of slowly watching this show on netflix and have been enjoying it as light entertainment, but the beginning of ep 18 "Midnight" just turned me into a fan 4ever. clever and critical at the same time in a scene that lasted like 10 seconds.
― obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Saturday, 9 March 2013 19:23 (2 months ago) Permalink
i finished watching the final season of Fringe last week and am totally missing the characters. feels weird.
― obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Monday, 29 April 2013 02:55 (3 weeks ago) Permalink
you barreled through those!
― mh, Monday, 29 April 2013 03:00 (3 weeks ago) Permalink
Walter was on Good Wife a couple of weeks ago!
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 29 April 2013 13:46 (3 weeks ago) Permalink