Rolling 2011 thread where I buy and listen to jazz albums for the first time ever

I just listened to a chunk of Futuristic Sounds there and I agree it's underwhelming. But "The Beginning" is great (mind you, I enjoy out-Ra albums like "Strange Strings") and I was wondering, how much music like this was around in 1961? Structurally it seems as close to Partch or Varese as to any other jazz I'm aware of from that time. Comparable groups like the Art Ensemble of Chicago came quite a bit later. People here know much more than I about jazz history - can anyone fill me in on some context?

xp - I've been meaning to pick up the Szwed book for ages

if it's the Impulse Years comp it has Hum Allah Hum Allah Hum Allah from Jewels Of Thought, so not totally dispensable (xxp)

ilxor, it's still early days, but do you find yourself responding more to melodicism or "out"-ness in solos?

Tough to say. Maybe a nice balance of the two? But then, I'm not used to actively listening to solos and trying to figure them out. I'd say that I respond more to the overall feel of a 5-10 minute piece (or longer) than any individual part.

I've got a Monk/Coltrane 2-disc set on the stereo now: The Complete 1957 Riverside Recordings, the one I ordered from Amazon last week. Coltrane's going nuts on a solo right now, track 6. I'd say it is melodic for the most part... but then every now and then, he hits a string of off-kilter, unexpected notes and I'm all, whoooaaaa what just happened???

^______^

satori

best ilxor posting since forever itt

the szwed bio was a great read iirc
yeah pretty fascinating stuff. a long-ish book, but you get the feeling that it's just scratching the surface of the whole sun ra thing.

that xp sounds snarky (probably is snarky), but i loved yr sun ra write up, ilxor. looking forward to the monk/coltrane riverside and heliocentric worlds reviews.

seandalai OTM here: "...how much music like this was around in 1961? Structurally it seems as close to Partch or Varese as to any other jazz I'm aware of from that time. Comparable groups like the Art Ensemble of Chicago came quite a bit later."

can't answer the question authoritatively, but i'm tempted to say "none." nothing i've heard, anyway. ra was pretty much sui generis, esp in the late 50s/early 60s.

that xp sounds snarky (probably is snarky)

You're right, though. Good place for serious ilxor posting!

out to lunch? grachan moncur? Prob a couple years later but

I picked up Dolphy's Out to Lunch on an early recommendation in this thread. Haven't listened yet, though.

one of my absolute favorites

moncur's evolution from a year earlier has a similar feel - hutcherson and Williams also on it.

had to put this somewhere:

http://dothemath.typepad.com/.a/6a01348156fe55970c0147e2202517970b-800wi

when kenny met miles
http://www.clusterflock.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/davis-and-kenny-g..jpg

LOL!

Space is the Place is my second-favorite musician bio (just behind the Sly "Off the Record" book). amazing read.

Just discovered this fantastic series from the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/series/50-great-jazz-moments

Lotsa great reading for us nOOBs.

reminded me that we haven't even touched on Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto and the wealth of Brazilian jazz itt

xxp i went to high school w/ the guy who's Epistrophy Arts, a true bro to the nth degree

def add Getz/Gilberto to your list, should be able to find it everywhere and even if you dont dig the bossa nova, it's one of the best patio records for sunny day chillin

My wife has the self-titled Getz/Gilberto record. It's alright -- never really captivated me beyond being pleasant and easy to listen to, though.

it's really one of the best records ever though

ha, yeah, it really is great. but i can see it just sounding like easy listening at first. it is a pretty unfuckwithable LP tho.

I've never listened to Getz, but just downloaded a 3CD set of his early '50s quintet recordings that's coming out next week.

getz super rad imo

some of the most complex cool style stuff out thereq

just so immediately recognizable

Some good stuff going on in this thread: Not the canon: another jazz thread

cos i really liked this thread in which ilxor asked for jazz recs, and it seemed that a lot of people had a lot to contribute. But - how much can you throw at someone and expect them to listen? (One of the things I liked about the thread was that it really happened - he really bought discs, listened to them etc)

Thanks, btw -- I started this thread intending for these recommendations to jumpstart my 2011 deep-dive into jazz. I'd say this year so far, jazz has comprised about 50% of my listening, and I've bought about 20 albums used, nice and cheap. I'll get to reviewing as I get a handle on what's going on with each record. It's been good to really focus on a new genre for a change, slow down my listening and buying habits and hear a new style of music with fresh ears.

I haven't bought a 2011 new release thus far that I can recall, aside from the Electric Wizard and Ghost US releases. Feel like I'm turning into unperson -- all metal and jazz, not much else.

that kenny g photo is actually form his facebook, his caption is the best part because he STILL doesn't get the joke

http://i.imgur.com/0h3fr.gif

First listen of "On The Corner". This is insane and kinda melting my face. LOVE.

Also, earlier today I picked up a copy of Alice Coltrane's "Journey in Satchidanandadadadadadaddaadadadadadad". Can't wait to give it a spin later this eve.

Satchidananda is my desert island, favorite album of all time. where Corner is face melting, Journey is soul expanding. truth, consciousness, and bliss

^^^^^^ yesss

when i'm bored on guitar i inevitably start playing that bassline & melody

The Peter Brötzmann Octet - The Complete Machine Gun Sessions (1968)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KG%2B9cHf1L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

First impression: this album is amazing. And really, really, really noisy.

Second impression: this album is pretty much a free-improvisation rock record, possibly touching on jazz in places, but most likely filed under jazz because of its use of jazz instruments. My understanding is that Brötzmann "plays" the baritone sax, and that he's "playing" with three additional sax "players" on this LP.

For those who have heard Machine Gun, it should be obvious that I've placed the word "play" in quotations because, quite clearly, that's an understatement for what Brötzmann is aiming for here. The sax players (as well as two drummers, two bassists and a pianist, I believe) sound like they are physically attacking their instruments -- and perhaps the instruments are fighting back -- resulting in one of the most cacophonous sound-riots I've ever heard laid to tape, using jazz instruments or otherwise. The energy level is pretty constant; here and there most of the instruments will pause for a breath while a single sax wails away for a few seconds, then the other instruments smash back into the mix.

I really enjoy Machine Gun, but honestly, I'd have loved it without hearing an ounce of jazz otherwise. A good comparison point is early Boredoms material. If you can imagine giving each of the Boredoms folks a saxophone instead of traditional rock instruments, then asking them to re-record Pop Tatari, you'll have a basic idea of how Machine Gun sounds. It's a clattering, high-impact riot of amelodic sounds, bits and pieces of structured melody weaving briefly into the mix, instruments occasionally locking into step with each other, but more frequently doing their own thing. Very, very noisily.

The extra tracks on The Complete Machine Gun Sessions include a couple alternate takes on "Machine Gun" and the second track, plus a live recording of "Machine Gun" (supposedly the only live recording available). All are fantastic, if not vastly different from the recordings that ended up on the proper LP.

Rating: ✰✰✰✰ ½

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZsFQ2SifuyI/Sd10r-B-YuI/AAAAAAAAAHI/4BqX1sdsGag/s400/thumbsUp.jpg

Great review, ilxor. I'll now be seeking out Machine Gun.

My first listen of Alice Coltrane's Journey In Satchidananda took place last night. Really dug it...has this intense spiritual vibe akin to A Love Supreme. It was also my first exposure to Pharoah Sanders, whose playing on this one is much more muted than I expected. I've so much about his dueling sax role on the later Coltrane records that I was expecting something much more frenzied. Have to say, of all the records I've heard thus far, this one was among the most immediately likable.

On a different not, for some reason, I find myself going back continually to Coltrane's Sun Ship. Seems odd, considering how immediately accessible the others I have are (A Love Supreme, Giant Step, Coltrane's Sound, My Favorite Things, Blue Train), that I would be so drawn to this posthumously released record that, from what I've gathered, is more or less considered a minor work. I'm not convinced that this record hasn't changed every time I listen to it! It's like a puzzle that I find myself kind of addicted to...must unlock its treasures slowly.

I still plan on collecting as wide an array of stuff as possible, but being that I seem most turned on by Trane right now, I went ahead and ordered the Impulse! Volumes 1 and 2 set. Pretty psyched about that. I think a Coltrane bio is in my future too.

Good stuff -- I need to seek out Journey in Satchidananda and Sun Ship, definitely. I'm not sure what else you're into, but I don't think Brotzmann would be a huge leap for anyone into Boredoms, Sonic Youth, Rhys Chatham, Glenn Branca or (for something a bit more contemporary) Lightning Bolt. You get the idea...

I'm not super-versed in avant-noisy stuff beyond Sonic Youth (whom are a favorite). Beyond some obvious things, I'd say the jazziest non-jazz I love is stuff like Pentangle (who actually do a cover of a track off Minghus Ah Um). Into the weird folky drone stuff too. I think Satchidananda will appeal to that side of your tastes for sure.

Perfect. So far I've only spun Alice's Ptah, the El Daoud, which I think is really good. Need to give that one some more time in the coming days. I have a three-hour or so drive ahead of me tomorrow... should be a good opportunity to play 4-5 records front to back, looking fwd to it.

If you love the attack of Brotz but are interested in an approach that involves more written sections, more free jazz than completely free improv, I recommend the Brotzmann Chicago Tentet, especially their first release, The Chicago Octet/Tentet originally on Okkadisk. I don't know if it's back in print; I don't think it is.

Brotzmann: The Chicago Octet/Tentet - Audio CD - Box set by Peter Brotzmann

1 used from $89.99

Based on the Amazon listing I'd assume it's OOP.

There are a lot of ways to go with the EFI crowd -- bigger ensembles that give you that nuclear detonation in your head, smaller duo/trio meetings where you can hear more interplay between players, etc. Topography of the Lungs, mentioned upthread, is pretty amazing -- Evan Parker, Derek Bailey, Han Bennink.

xp yeah, I was lucky enough to get mine when it first came out...box #1250 out of however many were in the "pressing".

I guess I've tended to avoid Brotzmann due to a preconception that it's all about "who can blow the hardest"...but given my love for Ayler (and ilxor's writeup), I really ought to check it out.

"Be Music, Night" is the only Chicago Tentet album on Spotify, is that a good one?

I wish I could tell you. I don't have the scratch to keep up with Brotzmann's output.

I have a three-hour or so drive ahead of me tomorrow.

obviously, provided you don't mind sharing, i have to ask which part of our state you're traveling to

Huntsville...

I love Huntsville!!! You're not going for jazz-related purposes, I imagine?

Nope. Running...

Feel that.

Just skimmed through the whole thread, and I don't think anyone mentioned Scaruffi's lists. You might find some interesting, challenging stuff not yet mentioned here. -- http://www.scaruffi.com/jazz/best100.html. If you can get into Machine Gun this early on and enjoy it, I can't imagine anything else could be considered too difficult.

I grew up playing trumpet/cornet and listened to a lot of Bix, Armstrong, Ellington, Miles and Diz. I burned out and stopped playing as a teen, and didn't start listening to jazz for fun again until college, when I got into Parker, Mingus and Coltrane. The jazz CD reissues got going in the early 90s and I got way into absorbing everything I could find. I started reading a lot more too. The Story of Jazz by Marshall Stearns, originally published in 1956, is a classic. Eric Nisenson's Ascension: John Coltrane and His Quest inspired some deep listening with pretty much every album Coltrane made. It took me a few years before I felt ready for Ascension!

It's definitely fun to jump around and explore recommendations from all over the place. That's a good way to start. After a while if you're still into it, maybe consider doing some chronological sampling. I believe if you truly understand the history and context of each era, you can find stuff that's enjoyable from every stage and style of jazz.

The Brötzmann Tentet recently put out another 5CD box which is well worth getting hold of. That earlier box is indeed out of print now and documents their earlier days when they were mixing up composed and improvised stuff. They are all about improv now and this new box reflects that.

Also, if you like Brötzmann you would probably like The Thing.