Rolling 2011 thread where I buy and listen to jazz albums for the first time ever

8-9 people is a large group when it comes to jazz -- like, compared to a traditional combo with 3 or 4.

yeah, but an octet or nonet is not a "big band".

an octet or nonet is not a "big band".

No, it's not. And while we're on the subject, I can definitely recommend Pathways, a 2010 release by the Dave Holland Octet.

Already from just this thread I've learned a bit about the transition from bop to modal to free jazz

I feel like I could identify "bop" or "free jazz" on basic principle, but I don't know wtf "modal" is -- heard the term, sure, but can't define it or identify it on record.

modal - essentially improvising on one scale rather than on a set of changing chords. so it sounds more droney and static, even though you might still have a walking bassline playing all quarter notes. to compare, listen to a standard based on rhythm changes (ie the chords to "i got rhythm), like charlie parker's "anthropology". then listen to "so what" off of kind of blue, which is all based on the same chord except for the bridge.

here's a pretty intelligible AABA rhythm changes example, also miles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ah7unyXbA

Sun Ra - The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra (1961)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QHF2PNNrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

So, this Sun Ra album's alright. It didn't strike me as an easy transition from funky, krautrocky stuff like Miles' On the Corner, and didn't blow me away on first listen like Ornette's The Shape of Jazz to Come. But it's been an interesting listen. I don't love it, but it has its quirks that I think differentiate it from the other jazz records I've played to date.

The track that stands out as fundamentally weird from The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra, setting the tone for the next few tracks, is "The Beginning," which features slow, mournful horns that bleat in a lazy fashion, sometimes sounding out of tune, whether intentionally or not I have no clue. The percussion hits remain quick beneath the horns, but are not forceful; it sounds like a chorus of taps, clicks, and people hitting on things gently, plus the occasional bell or chime noise. Certainly not a traditional drum sound.

The next few tracks hold the downcast mood of "The Beginning," and it gets tiresome. There's an interesting vocal part(!) on "China Gate" that's worth a listen, but on the whole, these mid-record tracks are too slow and sad to really hold my attention. It does sound like there's an oboe or clarinet in the mix at points, maybe a conga or tribal drum of sorts.

In contrast, the tracks featured near the beginning and end of the record sound "jazzy" in what I think of as a more traditional sense -- uptempo, swinging and lively, melodic, lots of piano and horns, with a flute or the occasional non-traditional instrument here and there. Not what I'd thought Sun Ra would sound like before I played the record. And it surprised me to enjoy the more traditional pieces over the experimental, percussion-filled abstractions.

This is an interesting record, wonderful in parts, and I feel like it's been a worthwhile introduction to Sun Ra and his diversity. But I have a feeling he has better releases out there that I have yet to hear.

Rating: ✰✰ ½

John Coltrane - Stellar Regions

This is a record that I always think I really really love, the opening notes give me chills, and then halfway through I'm bored again. Parts of it are amazing! But it loses my attention eventually.

LIVE SHIT

Ok dude here's the skinny sadly atx is a great fuckin town for tunes, but particularly it's wheedly old man blues rock, mook metal & hipster garage scuzz (which i love, obv), and jazz is tough. these are yer best options:

-Elephant Room: this is where all the jazz studies kids & guitar center dads go hang out/blow on open mic nights. you'll hear some really great playing, some shitty playing, and a lotta sorta bring-in-the-crowds swing & 50s hard bop like that miles clip right above me. good way to dip yr toe in, but there are like 'cooler' spots with more 'modern' stuff

-Victory Grill on E 6th: they don't always have shows here, but whoever is playing, go see them. first time i went i was a little concerned abt parking my car down the street, now its super gentrified and iirc there's a french bakery & vintage moog store across the street.

-Ruby's BBQ: again, not a lot of shows, but when they bring somebody they are WORTH YER TIME.

you're also gonna be primed just in time for the spring/summer season of epistrophy arts, the rad organization that regularly brings brotzmann & joe mcphee & the thing & others to town

http://www.epistrophyarts.org/

It didn't strike me as an easy transition from funky, krautrocky stuff like Miles' On the Corner

that kind of stuff is later for Ra - post '66 or so at least, continuing on through the 70s. but you got a record that is all acoustic and a pared down Arkestra to boot (both reasons it's never been at the top of my "must get" pile)

Okay that Epistrophy thing sounds like it's worth looking into. Thanks!

xp HOOS

If you happen to catch the Monster Big Band one night anywhere (they play Elephant Room & Ruta Maya a lot iirc), look for the trombonist named Freddie Mendoza. He's a jazz prof at Tx State who used to play only free improv before eventually developing an appresh for the straighter big band stuff he composes & plays with MBB now. Tell him of your situation! He will be v v pleased to guide u further!!

there are exceptions (like Disco 3000) but I tend to prefer Ra in one of two scenarios: solo or with a large ensemble

xp

but you got a record that is all acoustic and a pared down Arkestra to boot (both reasons it's never been at the top of my "must get" pile)

Yup, my fault there. But his stuff is really tough to track down used (so far at least). I have about 200 Miles and Coltrane things to pick from in the used bins, but I'm pretty much going to grab used Ra records in the order I see 'em. Slim pickings!

Like, one local shop has at least 50-60 gently used Miles CDs. Incredible selection. And nothing from Ra, or Joe Henderson, or Archie Shepp. Found a Pharaoh Sanders record, though. The big names in jazz dominate the shops, it seems.

yeah those Pharoah recs take some effort to find, still looking for several myself.

dude I give you credit for diving straight into a second-string Sun Ra album with such a detailed review, nice work.

I've found a decent selection of Pharoah records so far. Not a ton, but enough to keep me busy for a couple months: Tauhid (listened once, review coming sometime soon), Karma, Black Unity, and an Impulse compilation. Haven't picked up the last one yet.

dude I give you credit for diving straight into a second-string Sun Ra album with such a detailed review, nice work.

Thanks, btw! I'm not gonna post about anything until I've listened at least 2-3 times and feel like I have a decent grasp at what's going on, and whether or not I enjoy it. I have a second Sun Ra album waiting in the wings that I haven't played yet (see original thread post).

I just put my brand new (used) copy of Black Unity on at my radio show, never heard it before! I'm excited... lots of percussion so far.

Just read the Allmusic review for that Sun Ra record and it's positively beaming (much more so than my thoughts):

http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-futuristic-sounds-of-sun-ra-main-entry-r151864

According to the Szwed bio, Sun Ra's career as a band leader was even longer than Ellington's. His catalog is unbelievably huge. I'm sure there's a lot of later albums you'd prefer to Futuristic Sounds.

Phil, that Darcy James Argue interview is excellent and prompted me to put on Infernal Machines again. I think I'd played once before, on headphones while doing dishes ... it sounds a whole lot better on decent speakers with some volume. This album would be a good introduction to "big band" jazz in the sense of a large ensemble doing composed music. His comments about the big band tradition seem totally OTM.

I quite like "Futuristic Sounds" but the AMG guy is right "This is one to play for the mistaken folks who think the Arkestra did nothing but make noise," which if you haven't heard a lot of other Arkestra stuff won't matter to you.

Black Unity is great! Ilxor, if you have Karma, Tauhid, and Black Unity, I don't think you'll need that comp.

the szwed bio was a great read iirc

I just listened to a chunk of Futuristic Sounds there and I agree it's underwhelming. But "The Beginning" is great (mind you, I enjoy out-Ra albums like "Strange Strings") and I was wondering, how much music like this was around in 1961? Structurally it seems as close to Partch or Varese as to any other jazz I'm aware of from that time. Comparable groups like the Art Ensemble of Chicago came quite a bit later. People here know much more than I about jazz history - can anyone fill me in on some context?

xp - I've been meaning to pick up the Szwed book for ages

if it's the Impulse Years comp it has Hum Allah Hum Allah Hum Allah from Jewels Of Thought, so not totally dispensable (xxp)

ilxor, it's still early days, but do you find yourself responding more to melodicism or "out"-ness in solos?

Tough to say. Maybe a nice balance of the two? But then, I'm not used to actively listening to solos and trying to figure them out. I'd say that I respond more to the overall feel of a 5-10 minute piece (or longer) than any individual part.

I've got a Monk/Coltrane 2-disc set on the stereo now: The Complete 1957 Riverside Recordings, the one I ordered from Amazon last week. Coltrane's going nuts on a solo right now, track 6. I'd say it is melodic for the most part... but then every now and then, he hits a string of off-kilter, unexpected notes and I'm all, whoooaaaa what just happened???

^______^

satori

best ilxor posting since forever itt

the szwed bio was a great read iirc
yeah pretty fascinating stuff. a long-ish book, but you get the feeling that it's just scratching the surface of the whole sun ra thing.

that xp sounds snarky (probably is snarky), but i loved yr sun ra write up, ilxor. looking forward to the monk/coltrane riverside and heliocentric worlds reviews.

seandalai OTM here: "...how much music like this was around in 1961? Structurally it seems as close to Partch or Varese as to any other jazz I'm aware of from that time. Comparable groups like the Art Ensemble of Chicago came quite a bit later."

can't answer the question authoritatively, but i'm tempted to say "none." nothing i've heard, anyway. ra was pretty much sui generis, esp in the late 50s/early 60s.

that xp sounds snarky (probably is snarky)

You're right, though. Good place for serious ilxor posting!

out to lunch? grachan moncur? Prob a couple years later but

I picked up Dolphy's Out to Lunch on an early recommendation in this thread. Haven't listened yet, though.

one of my absolute favorites

moncur's evolution from a year earlier has a similar feel - hutcherson and Williams also on it.

had to put this somewhere:

http://dothemath.typepad.com/.a/6a01348156fe55970c0147e2202517970b-800wi

when kenny met miles
http://www.clusterflock.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/davis-and-kenny-g..jpg

LOL!

Space is the Place is my second-favorite musician bio (just behind the Sly "Off the Record" book). amazing read.

Just discovered this fantastic series from the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/series/50-great-jazz-moments

Lotsa great reading for us nOOBs.

reminded me that we haven't even touched on Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto and the wealth of Brazilian jazz itt

xxp i went to high school w/ the guy who's Epistrophy Arts, a true bro to the nth degree

def add Getz/Gilberto to your list, should be able to find it everywhere and even if you dont dig the bossa nova, it's one of the best patio records for sunny day chillin

My wife has the self-titled Getz/Gilberto record. It's alright -- never really captivated me beyond being pleasant and easy to listen to, though.

it's really one of the best records ever though

ha, yeah, it really is great. but i can see it just sounding like easy listening at first. it is a pretty unfuckwithable LP tho.

I've never listened to Getz, but just downloaded a 3CD set of his early '50s quintet recordings that's coming out next week.

getz super rad imo

some of the most complex cool style stuff out thereq

just so immediately recognizable

Some good stuff going on in this thread: Not the canon: another jazz thread

cos i really liked this thread in which ilxor asked for jazz recs, and it seemed that a lot of people had a lot to contribute. But - how much can you throw at someone and expect them to listen? (One of the things I liked about the thread was that it really happened - he really bought discs, listened to them etc)

Thanks, btw -- I started this thread intending for these recommendations to jumpstart my 2011 deep-dive into jazz. I'd say this year so far, jazz has comprised about 50% of my listening, and I've bought about 20 albums used, nice and cheap. I'll get to reviewing as I get a handle on what's going on with each record. It's been good to really focus on a new genre for a change, slow down my listening and buying habits and hear a new style of music with fresh ears.

I haven't bought a 2011 new release thus far that I can recall, aside from the Electric Wizard and Ghost US releases. Feel like I'm turning into unperson -- all metal and jazz, not much else.