Rolling 2011 thread where I buy and listen to jazz albums for the first time ever

But anyway, Hurting otm.

Another thing about a big band, it's pretty exciting to actually go to the show and hear all those horns moving air and then hear it all drop down for the solos and then roar back at the end.

Yeah!! ilxor - why don't you go and see live jazz shows?

This is such a fantastic thread. Long time lurker, but first time poster here. Was moved to finally contribute b/c I seem to be going through almost the exact same thing ilxor is (ie, a sudden jazz kick/immersion). It's been fantastically fun and I appreciate all of the knowledge shared here.

Before a couple of weeks ago, my knowledge was more or less limited to Kind of Blue/A Love Supreme. In A Silent Way has been a favorite too. (Matter of fact, my copy of the Complete Sessions just arrived today. Can't wait to go deep into this one.)

Picked up a whole bunch of used titles over the weekend and have been enjoying myself. Gave Albert Ayler's "Love Cry" a first spin earlier today and must say it's possibly the most "out there" thing I've just about ever heard. Interesting. Not sure how much I'll be going back to it though. Is all of Ayler's stuff so challenging? It made my first listen to Coltrane's "Sun Ship" seem downright breezy by comparison.

NP: Coltrane's Sound

Apparently this big band performance set some kind of attendance record: http://new.lincolncenter.org/live/index.php/ood-2010-harlow-sanabria.

Love Cry is ok, but Witches and Devils is a better record imo.

Yeah!! ilxor - why don't you go and see live jazz shows?

Because I barely know a thing about jazz! I'm just now hearing the "classics" of the genre for the first time; how would I know what is worth my time in contemporary jazz? (Obviously I could go see local/house bands, or just go see stuff at random, but...)

This is such a fantastic thread. Long time lurker, but first time poster here. Was moved to finally contribute b/c I seem to be going through almost the exact same thing ilxor is (ie, a sudden jazz kick/immersion). It's been fantastically fun and I appreciate all of the knowledge shared here.

THIS MADE MY DAY

Thanks for coming out and posting!!

how would I know what is worth my time in contemporary jazz?

trial and error, just like everything else in life

Works for me. Where do you live again, ilxor?

Gave Albert Ayler's "Love Cry" a first spin earlier today and must say it's possibly the most "out there" thing I've just about ever heard. Interesting. Not sure how much I'll be going back to it though. Is all of Ayler's stuff so challenging? It made my first listen to Coltrane's "Sun Ship" seem downright breezy by comparison.

this is awesome... I remember playing Sun Ship for a non-jazz friend of mine and he was pretty overwhelmed, so I'd say you're doing great.

trial and error, just like everything else in life

Yes, but time and $$ are limited. Hence my asking for recommendations in this thread, for instance, instead of going out and buying every jazz album I see in the used bins.

Where do you live again, ilxor?

I live in Austin TX.

Oh, in that case you are out of luck.

not really a big music town

Just like its soundalike, Boston.

Ha ha ha. Most clearly a case of too many choices = overwhelming, not the other way around.

ilxor, are you in a city big enough to have a good variety of live jazz options? if you name the city, we can offer recommendations via Pollstar or similar on gigs, same as we're offering on albums.

xposts lol

Well, this place is one of our big jazz venues: http://www.elephantroom.com

Not sure about others offhand, but I'm sure I can fix that with a few minutes on Google, etc.

February calendar: http://www.elephantroom.com/February2011.html

THIS MADE MY DAY

Thanks for coming out and posting!!

You're welcome! Hope you don't mind me chiming in and seeking out similar guidance from the experts!

It occurred to me one of the things that makes this exciting for me personally is that since I'm suddenly most interested in a section of my various haunts that I previously pretty much ignored, it's like I've discovered a whole bunch of great new record stores too.

I often find that my acquisition of new music so far exceeds my ability actually enjoy. I'm with you on the whole "more time on fewer records" notion. That jazz more or less demands this on new ears makes it the perfect new thing to explore.

It occurred to me one of the things that makes this exciting for me personally is that since I'm suddenly most interested in a section of my various haunts that I previously pretty much ignored, it's like I've discovered a whole bunch of great new record stores too.

So, so true. I've gone nuts in my usual old boring record stores the past couple weeks.

Always though those acts at The Elephant Room were kind of corny the times I went there. And I just checked the Emo's calendar and, in the limited time available to me I was not able to find anything that looked like a jazz act on there.

I've been to the Elephant Room a few times. Good ambience, nice beer selection. Never cared for the music too much. But if there's a show coming up that I'd find interesting, I might be willing to go.

<q>Gave Albert Ayler's "Love Cry" a first spin earlier today and must say it's possibly the most "out there" thing I've just about ever heard. Interesting. Not sure how much I'll be going back to it though. Is all of Ayler's stuff so challenging? It made my first listen to Coltrane's "Sun Ship" seem downright breezy by comparison.[i]</q>

<q>[i]this is awesome... I remember playing Sun Ship for a non-jazz friend of mine and he was pretty overwhelmed, so I'd say you're doing great.</q>

Kind of feel like I could easily concentrate on Miles and Coltrane alone and would be still be joyfully overwhelmed and occupied. Trying to resist this, though for the most part that's where my emphasis has gone. I can't help it...I have that intrinsic oh-i-like-that-album-now-i-must-hear-everything-that-artist-has-done record nerd gene.

Anyone read those Ashley Kahn books on Kind of Blue and A Love Supreme? I wonder if reading those would be a worthwhile exercise for me; using my most familiar recordings as a basis/springboard for some general knowledge about jazz in general.

Already from just this thread I've learned a bit about the transition from bop to modal to free jazz...and well, even to a musical doofus like me, it *kind of* makes sense...

Anyone read those Ashley Kahn books on Kind of Blue and A Love Supreme? I wonder if reading those would be a worthwhile exercise for me; using my most familiar recordings as a basis/springboard for some general knowledge about jazz in general.

Can definitely recommend the KoB book. That wouldn't be a bad method of study, along with deep listening.

8-9 people is a large group when it comes to jazz -- like, compared to a traditional combo with 3 or 4.

yeah, but an octet or nonet is not a "big band".

an octet or nonet is not a "big band".

No, it's not. And while we're on the subject, I can definitely recommend Pathways, a 2010 release by the Dave Holland Octet.

Already from just this thread I've learned a bit about the transition from bop to modal to free jazz

I feel like I could identify "bop" or "free jazz" on basic principle, but I don't know wtf "modal" is -- heard the term, sure, but can't define it or identify it on record.

modal - essentially improvising on one scale rather than on a set of changing chords. so it sounds more droney and static, even though you might still have a walking bassline playing all quarter notes. to compare, listen to a standard based on rhythm changes (ie the chords to "i got rhythm), like charlie parker's "anthropology". then listen to "so what" off of kind of blue, which is all based on the same chord except for the bridge.

here's a pretty intelligible AABA rhythm changes example, also miles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ah7unyXbA

Sun Ra - The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra (1961)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QHF2PNNrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

So, this Sun Ra album's alright. It didn't strike me as an easy transition from funky, krautrocky stuff like Miles' On the Corner, and didn't blow me away on first listen like Ornette's The Shape of Jazz to Come. But it's been an interesting listen. I don't love it, but it has its quirks that I think differentiate it from the other jazz records I've played to date.

The track that stands out as fundamentally weird from The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra, setting the tone for the next few tracks, is "The Beginning," which features slow, mournful horns that bleat in a lazy fashion, sometimes sounding out of tune, whether intentionally or not I have no clue. The percussion hits remain quick beneath the horns, but are not forceful; it sounds like a chorus of taps, clicks, and people hitting on things gently, plus the occasional bell or chime noise. Certainly not a traditional drum sound.

The next few tracks hold the downcast mood of "The Beginning," and it gets tiresome. There's an interesting vocal part(!) on "China Gate" that's worth a listen, but on the whole, these mid-record tracks are too slow and sad to really hold my attention. It does sound like there's an oboe or clarinet in the mix at points, maybe a conga or tribal drum of sorts.

In contrast, the tracks featured near the beginning and end of the record sound "jazzy" in what I think of as a more traditional sense -- uptempo, swinging and lively, melodic, lots of piano and horns, with a flute or the occasional non-traditional instrument here and there. Not what I'd thought Sun Ra would sound like before I played the record. And it surprised me to enjoy the more traditional pieces over the experimental, percussion-filled abstractions.

This is an interesting record, wonderful in parts, and I feel like it's been a worthwhile introduction to Sun Ra and his diversity. But I have a feeling he has better releases out there that I have yet to hear.

Rating: ✰✰ ½

John Coltrane - Stellar Regions

This is a record that I always think I really really love, the opening notes give me chills, and then halfway through I'm bored again. Parts of it are amazing! But it loses my attention eventually.

LIVE SHIT

Ok dude here's the skinny sadly atx is a great fuckin town for tunes, but particularly it's wheedly old man blues rock, mook metal & hipster garage scuzz (which i love, obv), and jazz is tough. these are yer best options:

-Elephant Room: this is where all the jazz studies kids & guitar center dads go hang out/blow on open mic nights. you'll hear some really great playing, some shitty playing, and a lotta sorta bring-in-the-crowds swing & 50s hard bop like that miles clip right above me. good way to dip yr toe in, but there are like 'cooler' spots with more 'modern' stuff

-Victory Grill on E 6th: they don't always have shows here, but whoever is playing, go see them. first time i went i was a little concerned abt parking my car down the street, now its super gentrified and iirc there's a french bakery & vintage moog store across the street.

-Ruby's BBQ: again, not a lot of shows, but when they bring somebody they are WORTH YER TIME.

you're also gonna be primed just in time for the spring/summer season of epistrophy arts, the rad organization that regularly brings brotzmann & joe mcphee & the thing & others to town

http://www.epistrophyarts.org/

It didn't strike me as an easy transition from funky, krautrocky stuff like Miles' On the Corner

that kind of stuff is later for Ra - post '66 or so at least, continuing on through the 70s. but you got a record that is all acoustic and a pared down Arkestra to boot (both reasons it's never been at the top of my "must get" pile)

Okay that Epistrophy thing sounds like it's worth looking into. Thanks!

xp HOOS

If you happen to catch the Monster Big Band one night anywhere (they play Elephant Room & Ruta Maya a lot iirc), look for the trombonist named Freddie Mendoza. He's a jazz prof at Tx State who used to play only free improv before eventually developing an appresh for the straighter big band stuff he composes & plays with MBB now. Tell him of your situation! He will be v v pleased to guide u further!!

there are exceptions (like Disco 3000) but I tend to prefer Ra in one of two scenarios: solo or with a large ensemble

xp

but you got a record that is all acoustic and a pared down Arkestra to boot (both reasons it's never been at the top of my "must get" pile)

Yup, my fault there. But his stuff is really tough to track down used (so far at least). I have about 200 Miles and Coltrane things to pick from in the used bins, but I'm pretty much going to grab used Ra records in the order I see 'em. Slim pickings!

Like, one local shop has at least 50-60 gently used Miles CDs. Incredible selection. And nothing from Ra, or Joe Henderson, or Archie Shepp. Found a Pharaoh Sanders record, though. The big names in jazz dominate the shops, it seems.

yeah those Pharoah recs take some effort to find, still looking for several myself.

dude I give you credit for diving straight into a second-string Sun Ra album with such a detailed review, nice work.

I've found a decent selection of Pharoah records so far. Not a ton, but enough to keep me busy for a couple months: Tauhid (listened once, review coming sometime soon), Karma, Black Unity, and an Impulse compilation. Haven't picked up the last one yet.

dude I give you credit for diving straight into a second-string Sun Ra album with such a detailed review, nice work.

Thanks, btw! I'm not gonna post about anything until I've listened at least 2-3 times and feel like I have a decent grasp at what's going on, and whether or not I enjoy it. I have a second Sun Ra album waiting in the wings that I haven't played yet (see original thread post).

I just put my brand new (used) copy of Black Unity on at my radio show, never heard it before! I'm excited... lots of percussion so far.

Just read the Allmusic review for that Sun Ra record and it's positively beaming (much more so than my thoughts):

http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-futuristic-sounds-of-sun-ra-main-entry-r151864

According to the Szwed bio, Sun Ra's career as a band leader was even longer than Ellington's. His catalog is unbelievably huge. I'm sure there's a lot of later albums you'd prefer to Futuristic Sounds.

Phil, that Darcy James Argue interview is excellent and prompted me to put on Infernal Machines again. I think I'd played once before, on headphones while doing dishes ... it sounds a whole lot better on decent speakers with some volume. This album would be a good introduction to "big band" jazz in the sense of a large ensemble doing composed music. His comments about the big band tradition seem totally OTM.

I quite like "Futuristic Sounds" but the AMG guy is right "This is one to play for the mistaken folks who think the Arkestra did nothing but make noise," which if you haven't heard a lot of other Arkestra stuff won't matter to you.

Black Unity is great! Ilxor, if you have Karma, Tauhid, and Black Unity, I don't think you'll need that comp.

the szwed bio was a great read iirc

I just listened to a chunk of Futuristic Sounds there and I agree it's underwhelming. But "The Beginning" is great (mind you, I enjoy out-Ra albums like "Strange Strings") and I was wondering, how much music like this was around in 1961? Structurally it seems as close to Partch or Varese as to any other jazz I'm aware of from that time. Comparable groups like the Art Ensemble of Chicago came quite a bit later. People here know much more than I about jazz history - can anyone fill me in on some context?

xp - I've been meaning to pick up the Szwed book for ages

if it's the Impulse Years comp it has Hum Allah Hum Allah Hum Allah from Jewels Of Thought, so not totally dispensable (xxp)

ilxor, it's still early days, but do you find yourself responding more to melodicism or "out"-ness in solos?

Tough to say. Maybe a nice balance of the two? But then, I'm not used to actively listening to solos and trying to figure them out. I'd say that I respond more to the overall feel of a 5-10 minute piece (or longer) than any individual part.