Rolling 2011 thread where I buy and listen to jazz albums for the first time ever

i like late 20th century large ensemble jazz, and I also like big band stuff -- it reminds me of my grandfather and his stories about growing up during the depression in Chicago.

Jazz Composer's Orchestra, Gunther Schuller's big band stuff, Muhal Richard Abrams stuff. And you guys call us faux-naive.

8-9 people is a large group when it comes to jazz -- like, compared to a traditional combo with 3 or 4.

Is this about ilxor not liking "big band" big bands? ILXOR, LISTEN TO BIG BANDS. STOP BEING A SNOB.

Weasel Walter recently put out a CD of his large ensemble stuff -- does not sound like big band.

typically dont have more than 8-9 ppl iirc

even if this is true (and I'm not sure it is?), it's more than what ilxor/unperson (can't remember) which specified as preferable (5-6)

~sigh~ like i said i think there are a couple exceptions like gil evans but generally when someone says 'big bands' they are talking about the dominant tradition of 'big bands' in jazz which refers pretty much to your typical jazz band structure

no one's arguing this, but unperson expanded his dislike to include basically jazz bands that are bigger than 5 or 6 people.

Is this about ilxor not liking "big band" big bands? ILXOR, LISTEN TO BIG BANDS. STOP BEING A SNOB.

Yes, DJA has a whole thing about steering clear of certain compositional cop outs that beleaguer big bands. What about the um, Mingus Big Band, Phil?

which is Phil's right, I guess. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it. The only problem comes when he's saying something is good or bad in a category of something he categorically dislikes. Well, there's also a problem if an editor asks him to review something like that, but, that's another topic.

New Grass is great. Ayler doing Quincy Jones tv soundtrack type songs in a free fashion. I wish there were fifty more records like it.

New Grass is great. Ayler doing Quincy Jones tv soundtrack type songs in a free fashion. I wish there were fifty more records like it.

YES!!!!

Is this about ilxor not liking "big band" big bands? ILXOR, LISTEN TO BIG BANDS. STOP BEING A SNOB.

I will listen to everything! Just wanted to disclose up-front that, just like I have aesthetic leanings into certain types of jazz due to my non-jazz music interests, I've not enjoyed the big band stuff I've heard so far -- this may change, though.

it's more than what ilxor/unperson (can't remember) which specified as preferable (5-6)

This wasn't me.

I don't tend to like any jazz group with more than seven or at most eight musicians, and I prefer five or six, max.

^^^this is what got everybody to address bands apart from the classic "big band" archetype

xp I would make you a list but you have like 1,000 hours of listening ahead of you already.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NQ7TICCD-6U/Rw0sRr13uZI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/GjNrJ8FMEow/s400/Ben-Hur+sea.jpg
the original big band

General suggestion for ilxor given the volume of stuff here -- don't waste too much time yet on stuff that doesn't really grab you. Your tastes can get pushed really far just by naturally exploring what you like and branching out from it. No need to force things down your throat.

Another thing about a big band, it's pretty exciting to actually go to the show and hear all those horns moving air and then hear it all drop down for the solos and then roar back at the end.

In a way, it is similar to, at the opposite end of the volume spectrum, finding small group or solo jazz guitar being boring, too soft and silent as compared to rock guitar, and then going to the gig and being drawn in by relative quietness instead of being put off by it.

But anyway, Hurting otm.

Another thing about a big band, it's pretty exciting to actually go to the show and hear all those horns moving air and then hear it all drop down for the solos and then roar back at the end.

Yeah!! ilxor - why don't you go and see live jazz shows?

This is such a fantastic thread. Long time lurker, but first time poster here. Was moved to finally contribute b/c I seem to be going through almost the exact same thing ilxor is (ie, a sudden jazz kick/immersion). It's been fantastically fun and I appreciate all of the knowledge shared here.

Before a couple of weeks ago, my knowledge was more or less limited to Kind of Blue/A Love Supreme. In A Silent Way has been a favorite too. (Matter of fact, my copy of the Complete Sessions just arrived today. Can't wait to go deep into this one.)

Picked up a whole bunch of used titles over the weekend and have been enjoying myself. Gave Albert Ayler's "Love Cry" a first spin earlier today and must say it's possibly the most "out there" thing I've just about ever heard. Interesting. Not sure how much I'll be going back to it though. Is all of Ayler's stuff so challenging? It made my first listen to Coltrane's "Sun Ship" seem downright breezy by comparison.

NP: Coltrane's Sound

Apparently this big band performance set some kind of attendance record: http://new.lincolncenter.org/live/index.php/ood-2010-harlow-sanabria.

Love Cry is ok, but Witches and Devils is a better record imo.

Yeah!! ilxor - why don't you go and see live jazz shows?

Because I barely know a thing about jazz! I'm just now hearing the "classics" of the genre for the first time; how would I know what is worth my time in contemporary jazz? (Obviously I could go see local/house bands, or just go see stuff at random, but...)

This is such a fantastic thread. Long time lurker, but first time poster here. Was moved to finally contribute b/c I seem to be going through almost the exact same thing ilxor is (ie, a sudden jazz kick/immersion). It's been fantastically fun and I appreciate all of the knowledge shared here.

THIS MADE MY DAY

Thanks for coming out and posting!!

how would I know what is worth my time in contemporary jazz?

trial and error, just like everything else in life

Works for me. Where do you live again, ilxor?

Gave Albert Ayler's "Love Cry" a first spin earlier today and must say it's possibly the most "out there" thing I've just about ever heard. Interesting. Not sure how much I'll be going back to it though. Is all of Ayler's stuff so challenging? It made my first listen to Coltrane's "Sun Ship" seem downright breezy by comparison.

this is awesome... I remember playing Sun Ship for a non-jazz friend of mine and he was pretty overwhelmed, so I'd say you're doing great.

trial and error, just like everything else in life

Yes, but time and $$ are limited. Hence my asking for recommendations in this thread, for instance, instead of going out and buying every jazz album I see in the used bins.

Where do you live again, ilxor?

I live in Austin TX.

Oh, in that case you are out of luck.

not really a big music town

Just like its soundalike, Boston.

Ha ha ha. Most clearly a case of too many choices = overwhelming, not the other way around.

ilxor, are you in a city big enough to have a good variety of live jazz options? if you name the city, we can offer recommendations via Pollstar or similar on gigs, same as we're offering on albums.

xposts lol

Well, this place is one of our big jazz venues: http://www.elephantroom.com

Not sure about others offhand, but I'm sure I can fix that with a few minutes on Google, etc.

February calendar: http://www.elephantroom.com/February2011.html

THIS MADE MY DAY

Thanks for coming out and posting!!

You're welcome! Hope you don't mind me chiming in and seeking out similar guidance from the experts!

It occurred to me one of the things that makes this exciting for me personally is that since I'm suddenly most interested in a section of my various haunts that I previously pretty much ignored, it's like I've discovered a whole bunch of great new record stores too.

I often find that my acquisition of new music so far exceeds my ability actually enjoy. I'm with you on the whole "more time on fewer records" notion. That jazz more or less demands this on new ears makes it the perfect new thing to explore.

It occurred to me one of the things that makes this exciting for me personally is that since I'm suddenly most interested in a section of my various haunts that I previously pretty much ignored, it's like I've discovered a whole bunch of great new record stores too.

So, so true. I've gone nuts in my usual old boring record stores the past couple weeks.

Always though those acts at The Elephant Room were kind of corny the times I went there. And I just checked the Emo's calendar and, in the limited time available to me I was not able to find anything that looked like a jazz act on there.

I've been to the Elephant Room a few times. Good ambience, nice beer selection. Never cared for the music too much. But if there's a show coming up that I'd find interesting, I might be willing to go.

<q>Gave Albert Ayler's "Love Cry" a first spin earlier today and must say it's possibly the most "out there" thing I've just about ever heard. Interesting. Not sure how much I'll be going back to it though. Is all of Ayler's stuff so challenging? It made my first listen to Coltrane's "Sun Ship" seem downright breezy by comparison.[i]</q>

<q>[i]this is awesome... I remember playing Sun Ship for a non-jazz friend of mine and he was pretty overwhelmed, so I'd say you're doing great.</q>

Kind of feel like I could easily concentrate on Miles and Coltrane alone and would be still be joyfully overwhelmed and occupied. Trying to resist this, though for the most part that's where my emphasis has gone. I can't help it...I have that intrinsic oh-i-like-that-album-now-i-must-hear-everything-that-artist-has-done record nerd gene.

Anyone read those Ashley Kahn books on Kind of Blue and A Love Supreme? I wonder if reading those would be a worthwhile exercise for me; using my most familiar recordings as a basis/springboard for some general knowledge about jazz in general.

Already from just this thread I've learned a bit about the transition from bop to modal to free jazz...and well, even to a musical doofus like me, it *kind of* makes sense...

Anyone read those Ashley Kahn books on Kind of Blue and A Love Supreme? I wonder if reading those would be a worthwhile exercise for me; using my most familiar recordings as a basis/springboard for some general knowledge about jazz in general.

Can definitely recommend the KoB book. That wouldn't be a bad method of study, along with deep listening.

8-9 people is a large group when it comes to jazz -- like, compared to a traditional combo with 3 or 4.

yeah, but an octet or nonet is not a "big band".

an octet or nonet is not a "big band".

No, it's not. And while we're on the subject, I can definitely recommend Pathways, a 2010 release by the Dave Holland Octet.

Already from just this thread I've learned a bit about the transition from bop to modal to free jazz

I feel like I could identify "bop" or "free jazz" on basic principle, but I don't know wtf "modal" is -- heard the term, sure, but can't define it or identify it on record.

modal - essentially improvising on one scale rather than on a set of changing chords. so it sounds more droney and static, even though you might still have a walking bassline playing all quarter notes. to compare, listen to a standard based on rhythm changes (ie the chords to "i got rhythm), like charlie parker's "anthropology". then listen to "so what" off of kind of blue, which is all based on the same chord except for the bridge.

here's a pretty intelligible AABA rhythm changes example, also miles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ah7unyXbA

Sun Ra - The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra (1961)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QHF2PNNrL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

So, this Sun Ra album's alright. It didn't strike me as an easy transition from funky, krautrocky stuff like Miles' On the Corner, and didn't blow me away on first listen like Ornette's The Shape of Jazz to Come. But it's been an interesting listen. I don't love it, but it has its quirks that I think differentiate it from the other jazz records I've played to date.

The track that stands out as fundamentally weird from The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra, setting the tone for the next few tracks, is "The Beginning," which features slow, mournful horns that bleat in a lazy fashion, sometimes sounding out of tune, whether intentionally or not I have no clue. The percussion hits remain quick beneath the horns, but are not forceful; it sounds like a chorus of taps, clicks, and people hitting on things gently, plus the occasional bell or chime noise. Certainly not a traditional drum sound.

The next few tracks hold the downcast mood of "The Beginning," and it gets tiresome. There's an interesting vocal part(!) on "China Gate" that's worth a listen, but on the whole, these mid-record tracks are too slow and sad to really hold my attention. It does sound like there's an oboe or clarinet in the mix at points, maybe a conga or tribal drum of sorts.

In contrast, the tracks featured near the beginning and end of the record sound "jazzy" in what I think of as a more traditional sense -- uptempo, swinging and lively, melodic, lots of piano and horns, with a flute or the occasional non-traditional instrument here and there. Not what I'd thought Sun Ra would sound like before I played the record. And it surprised me to enjoy the more traditional pieces over the experimental, percussion-filled abstractions.

This is an interesting record, wonderful in parts, and I feel like it's been a worthwhile introduction to Sun Ra and his diversity. But I have a feeling he has better releases out there that I have yet to hear.

Rating: ✰✰ ½

John Coltrane - Stellar Regions

This is a record that I always think I really really love, the opening notes give me chills, and then halfway through I'm bored again. Parts of it are amazing! But it loses my attention eventually.

LIVE SHIT

Ok dude here's the skinny sadly atx is a great fuckin town for tunes, but particularly it's wheedly old man blues rock, mook metal & hipster garage scuzz (which i love, obv), and jazz is tough. these are yer best options:

-Elephant Room: this is where all the jazz studies kids & guitar center dads go hang out/blow on open mic nights. you'll hear some really great playing, some shitty playing, and a lotta sorta bring-in-the-crowds swing & 50s hard bop like that miles clip right above me. good way to dip yr toe in, but there are like 'cooler' spots with more 'modern' stuff

-Victory Grill on E 6th: they don't always have shows here, but whoever is playing, go see them. first time i went i was a little concerned abt parking my car down the street, now its super gentrified and iirc there's a french bakery & vintage moog store across the street.

-Ruby's BBQ: again, not a lot of shows, but when they bring somebody they are WORTH YER TIME.

you're also gonna be primed just in time for the spring/summer season of epistrophy arts, the rad organization that regularly brings brotzmann & joe mcphee & the thing & others to town

http://www.epistrophyarts.org/

It didn't strike me as an easy transition from funky, krautrocky stuff like Miles' On the Corner

that kind of stuff is later for Ra - post '66 or so at least, continuing on through the 70s. but you got a record that is all acoustic and a pared down Arkestra to boot (both reasons it's never been at the top of my "must get" pile)