Rolling 2011 thread where I buy and listen to jazz albums for the first time ever

Listening to Weather Report's Live in Tokyo (2CD version) for the first time today. If, like me, you think of Weather Report as the makers of shitty, "funky" prog-fuzak, you really need to hear this, Skronky and rockin' - it's like Miles circa 1970 (Live-Evil, not Jack Johnson), minus Miles, basically.

If, like me, you think of Weather Report as the makers of shitty, "funky" prog-fuzak, you really need to hear this

Lol - ok, i'll take the bait.

i do kinda love the phrase "prog-fuzak"

would also really stump for weather report capo joe zawinul's self-titled debut (i think?) album....recommended if you like "in a silent way" by miles

jaco sux tho

to the experimental but sublime beauty of a new perspective

omg this album. so awesome

that would be a way better title

Guys I will post my impressions of some more jazz albums soon. I've heard about a half-dozen things I've enjoyed once apiece, really need to sit down and sink my teeth into one of them in more depth... there's so much to hear!

yeah this thread has kinda gone nuts since yr last post afaik

YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO IT ALL NOW
[but srsly, don't get burnt out on it, take it slow, feel the vibrations]

Ornette Coleman – The Shape of Jazz to Come (1959)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516itKL5IwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I’ve picked up a dozen or so jazz albums in the last week or so, most of them recommendations from this thread, and given many of them a cursory listen (with varying degrees of intrigue, which I’ll get to in time). This album by Ornette Coleman immediately bowled me over, though, and gets better with each spin.

I’ve heard various asides about this album’s significance over the year, mainly that it’s thought of as a “blueprint” for free jazz, or a groundbreaking record of sorts, due to the lack of melodic structure underneath the sax and trumpet parts (hope I’m somewhat on target with that...), and I can hear the appeal. Ornette’s playing doesn’t feel tied down to anything because I’m not hearing anything that could possibly hold it back. The bass and drum parts provide a sense of rhythm, but nothing melodic to instruct Ornette what to play, which scales to follow, or where to take each of these pieces.

One of the biggest things that stands out about this album is the interplay between Ornette’s sax and Don Cherry’s trumpet playing (had to check out the liners to get his name). I hear them often playing essentially the same parts but not quite in sync, one of them coming onto a note, or series of notes, just a split-second before the other, which I find wonderfully pleasing and exciting. Occasionally, one of them takes center stage. I find the playing extremely varied in mood as well: for example, the frantic and spazzy runs on “Eventually” followed by the nearly 10 minutes of peace on “Peace” -- no better title for that tune, surely!

I’m guessing due to the overlapping trumpet and sax parts that The Shape of Jazz to Come was written before it was played, but I do get an overwhelming sense of improvisation, exploration and freedom in Ornette’s playing here. It doesn’t sound like he’s reading sheet music while playing, just closing his eyes and then playing what comes to him in the moment.

Whatever the case, I absolutely love this album. Love it love it love it. More, please!

Rating: ✰✰✰✰✰

ilxor, in most jazz there is a written "head" or melody that the melodic instruments play together usually at the beginning and end of a song, and then a set of chord changes they improvise over. Ornette's move was to keep that "head" but to remove the chord changes. So you're right that at the beginning and end they're playing a written part, but after that they're improvising and in a looser/freer way than on almost all jazz records up to that point.

That makes sense, kinda... at some point I'll clearly need to read up and understand music and jazz theory a bit more.

lol, tbh, you could read ornette's explanations of these things for a decade and not really decode what he's talking about. His interviews are fun to read, but they are pretty out there.

like this:
The key represents the scale that you’re shooting but it doesn’t represent the quality of how long it takes to get rid of the notes of the key that you’re in. For some reason there’s at least, I would say, five notes that is always free of some key, and because of that it kind of slows down what we call improvising because, the improvising is the name of the key but the notes are different than the key. For instance what I’m trying to say about they key of the notes. When you’re shooting, when you’re playing within the rules, it’s not the same thing as when you’re playing the sound. Because the sound is mostly dominated by the name of the key that you’re in. But, if you’re in the key of C, you know, there’s not a C sharp and there’s not a B flat. So all of those things have something to do with how you transform, what I would say has something to do with the tonic. And transposing things from a dominant seventh to a fourth or a fifth or a sixth like that, that doesn’t have anything to do with nothing but your brain. Everything else has something to do with your eyes and your ears.
that's actually one of the more straightforward quotes

hurting otm

Ornette is one of my favorite interview subjects ever

Anyone seen the Derrida interviews Coleman thing?

http://itself.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/theotherslanguage.pdf

I had never really gotten into Ornette until a few years ago (got to see him play at the Masonic Hall too, which was amazing) but yeah in a weird way I was taken aback by how straightforward a lot of the early stuff is. I didn't immediately understand why this was seen as such a big break - it certainly doesn't sound as "free" as, say, Ascension or Free Jazz. a lot of it is really quite restrained and pretty. and he DOES almost invariably stick to the format of head-improvised section-head, whereas originally I was expecting stuff that didn't even have that kind of rudimentary structure.

very inventive though, have come to love this stuff. it really grabs yr attention.

no! my head sorta hurts just seeing the words "Derrida interviews Coleman" xpost

my favorite part of ornette's thing is the melodies

Been looking up some of you guys' recommendations. Looks like this one may be a bit hard to come across on CD...

World Galaxy by Alice Coltrane (Audio CD - 2004) - Import

4 new from $89.97
2 used from $171.40

O_O

Just counted... I have 160 distinct album recommendations from this thread. Mind = blown. Thanks everyone!!

Now, excuse me while I post a PayPal "Donate to ilxor's jazz buying fund" button. ;)

mm I can upload World Galaxy somewhere for you

my favorite part of ornette's thing is the melodies

― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Friday, January 28, 2011 1:52 PM Bookmark

Mine too. (1) they are really pretty and (2) they contain all these little 'jokes' about jazz imo. I mean his music is very, very funny if you've listened to enough jazz, because he kind of punctures cliches.

The simplest way to explain Ornette (and it's super-reductive but basically true) is that he improvises based on the melody, not based on the chords. So his solos often sound like a little kid singing a song to himself that he's making up on the spot. (I think this is a major reason why little kids tend to like Ornette's music.)

yeah, that makes sense to me. (btw coleman even got his 10 year old to be his drummer at some point in the 60s/70s)
http://www.orbitrecords.com/product/IMG_1127_edited.jpg

Denardo is still drumming for his dad (and managing him, now, too).

One of the biggest things that stands out about this album is the interplay between Ornette’s sax and Don Cherry’s trumpet playing (had to check out the liners to get his name)

Yeah definitely! And though you're not short of recommendations, most of Don Cherry's own records are excellent in their own right if you see any of them going cheap. Mu is awesome, so is Brown Rice.

xpost yeah! does he/has he ever made recordings with other people? some of the early stuff he's on is pretty ehhh, but he's definitely a killer drummer. he might be my favorite part of that recent sound grammar record.

My favorite Don Cherry record is Eternal Rhythm, with a bunch of European players and Sonny Sharrock. Awesome.

Haven't heard that one, thanks for the tip!

i have to say, i don't really care for 80s skronky ornette.

one goal of mine for this year is to check out the keith jarrett quartet with dewey redman, charlie haden, and paul motian. i've been meaning to get to that stuff for ages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls1ddrT7HPc

^ ilxor, I swear to god, this will 100% totally appeal to your Can-loving self

also there's a ton of contemporary jazz i like that i think would go down well on rock ears (the bad plus, the inbetweens), but if i was going to toss only one more recommendation on to the pile it would be something by the brian blade fellowship. probably "season of changes". such a great mix of serious playing with great melody, folk influences, etc.

NickB, I just started the video you linked but I'd be tempted to buy it for the artwork, regardless.

yes Denardo is still his drummer and he's amazing

seconding Mu and Brown Rice, definitely. Ed Blackwell! unfuckwithable

Brown Rice was one of those things I heard and was like "people call this a JAZZ record?"

also, here's a repository of totally amazing interviews & jazz writing by ethan iverson (pianist for the bad plus):

http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/contents.html

Been looking up some of you guys' recommendations. Looks like this one may be a bit hard to come across on CD...

World Galaxy by Alice Coltrane (Audio CD - 2004) - Import

4 new from $89.97
2 used from $171.40

O_O

World Galaxy has only been reissued on CD in Japan, hence the prize. Anyway, in my opinion you should get Alice's "Universal Consciousness", which is much cheaper. "Universal Consciousness" has a similar sound to "World Galaxy", but it's better. And it's more "jazz" too, if jazz means improvisation - World Galaxy mostly has just pre-written strings. It's not a bad album (the version of "A Love Supreme" on it is pretty great), but not worth the high prize you have to pay for it.

Aaaaand (surprise!) the music's fantastic, too.

xp to NickB

i'm sure a quick google search would reveal a galaxy of download options. xpost

Tumoas is right that Universal Consciousness is the better of the two (and I prefer Journey in Satchidananda to both)

journey's definitely the one to start with

Soliciting opinions on a few others I've seen in used bins lately:

Derek Bailey - Music and Dance (Is this even jazz? I believe it's on Fahey's Revenant label...)
Peter Brotzmann - Machine Gun
Andrew Hill - Point of Departure
Thelonious Monk - Straight, No Chaser
Sun Ra - The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra
Cecil Taylor - Jazz Advance

Machine Gun is a MUST HAVE.

What's it like?

It is one of the sacred texts of European Free Improv. You might not like it, but it will teach you about that whole scene.

eter Brotzmann - Machine Gun
Andrew Hill - Point of Departure
Thelonious Monk - Straight, No Chaser

go buy NOW