Italian Prog

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Banco are amazing! So are Le Orme. I just didn't think they had much 'ridiculousness' to them (though maybe Vittorio Nocenzi's keyboard playing is startling and could count a little). I guess "Collage" by Le Orme has a fair bit of ELP / The Nice ridiculousness going on, too - it's one of my least favourites of theirs because of that (it's mostly the song "Collage" that struck me that way, if I remember). I still think it's very good, though - it's their second real album (not counting that early compilation) and the first after the more 'beat'-sounding phase.

I wonder if people just find progressive rock to be in itself ridiculous - it's likely true that many people do, with all the comments about capes and such. If you didn't like the English language PFM record, I can't imagine you'll like the first few Italian ones that much, either. What was it that you didn't like?

Jaxon - which of Mr. Battiato's later albums had you heard? What was bad about it? I have "Arca di Noe" (sp?), and think it's great - not much like the very experimental '70's ones, but rather lovely and intelligently written pop.

― Pangolino again, Friday, 14 January 2005 20:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

it was from the mid-late 80s and sounded like it.

are you italian? do you speak it? does this help in enjoying his less experimental works?

i hear he still sells out arenas in italy?

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 14 January 2005 21:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think my problem with the PFM lp was just that it kind of seemed like this big undifferentiated mass to me; at base it just kind of lacked the hooks I love so much in stadium prog. Whether this was down to the singing, I'm not sure. It's been a while since I listened to be honest. I remember one track with a particularly thick overlay of mellotron that rubbed my sweet spot, but other than that... Actually one big problem I remember was that it just *sounded* bad: horrible mid-70s major label pressing, really kind of flat and lacking in the dynamic range that might have made the record feel more alive.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 14 January 2005 21:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

I can understand what you mean about how a record can sound date-wise; I'm just now listening to a CD by Errata Corrige that has music recorded in 1991, and, much as I'd like to ignore the synthesizer sounds and artificial reverb and concentrate on the writing and playing (both of which are quite nice), it's hard for me to do it. I just don't like the sounds. I don't really know why recordings of this sort of music from the 70's and early 80's often sound great to me, while those from the late 80's and early 90's are often hard to listen to. It's the synthesizer sounds and the reverb (and often the drum-sound) that I don't like, but I feel like I'm being unfair somehow. I find the Banco re-recordings of their first couple of records difficult in this respect, also - I mean, I think they're fine in every other way, but I still don't go back to them.

I don't speak Italian - I can just barely make out things at the best of times - I am thinking of the musical writing, and so don't know what to make of Mr. Battiato's lyrics. It wouldn't be bad to know, though! I think it's great if he does sell out arenas in Italy.

I can see what you mean about the PFM album - I've heard people comment on their lack of a really commanding lead vocalist. I've never found that a problem, and do find them quite hooky. I hear you about the pressing, though. The Italian version isn't that expensive in a remastered edition that I think sounds quite good (it's lacking one song ("Old Rain") that was only on "Photos of Ghosts" and maybe as a b-side somewhere, though I may be wrong in thinking so) . "River of Life" and "Mr. 9 till 5" were my favourite songs from "Photos of Ghosts". "Chocolate Kings" is a pretty rocking, catchy PFM record - you might like that one better. Not everyone likes Bernardo Lanzetti's singing, it seems, but it does stand out. I think "Come ti va..." is pretty hooky, too, but it's later and straighter rock than the older albums, so some progressive fans might not like it that much.

― Pangolino again, Saturday, 15 January 2005 00:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

all Area and solo Demetri Stratos solo albums

repeat

all Area and solo Demetri Stratos solo albums

Amen.

― Joe (Joe), Saturday, 15 January 2005 01:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

I am thinking of the musical writing, and so don't know what to make of Mr. Battiato's lyrics. It wouldn't be bad to know, though! I think it's great if he does sell out arenas in Italy.

I'm not really interested in what Battiato is doing now (and yes, he's still selling out arenas) but I quite like his early 80's synth pop albums. Its mostly light euro-pop, not really interesting music-wise, but the lyrics are a completely different matter: really clever, ironic, detached observations on modern life and political frenzies. He was (and still is) a very different kind of Italian artist: while most of our singers were devoted to some kind of old style marxism or simply were preparing themselves to the oncoming revolution, Battiato was much more layered and complex: like mixing together Borges, Gurdjeff, Thomas Mann and Flash Gordon. Intellectual but with a funny twist - no academic pedantry here.
He was interested in middle age mysticism and sufism (many accused him of being a "reactionary"), reacted against dehumanized modern society and at the same time despised any violently revolutionary dream (in Italy there was a strong terrorist movement) - always with a funny, slightly ironic and provocative touch.
He consciously chose pop music as a way to express himself in a more biting way, and again he was right: "La voce del padrone" was the first Italian lp to sell more than 1 million copies.

But you have to know Italian language to enjoy it properly... :-)

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Saturday, 15 January 2005 10:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Il Rovescio della Medaglia's "io Come io" (RCA italy) is totally asskicking, and relatively affordable still.

― Brian Turner (btwfmu), Sunday, 16 January 2005 04:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

Thanks, Marco, for writing something about Mr. Battiato's lyrics - I do already enjoy his music, so now I know that there's still more interesting for later! I've never heard "La voce del padrone", except for PFM doing a version of one song on their Japanese live CD.

I wonder how differently I would think of different artists and groups if I could understand the texts more closely - most of the Canadian progressive groups I like are francophone*, so this holds true even for music from my own country (at least I can roughly translate French, but all nuance is lost on me).

The only RDM album I have is "Contamination" - I wasn't completely sold on it, but I keep meaning to give it another chance. I think it had struck me as somewhat uneven / lumpy between the "classical" and "pop" parts, but it's not like it was "Concerto for Group and Orchestra" or anything. I'd bought it because of Luis Bacalov's arrangements. What is "io Come io" like?

― Pangolino again, Sunday, 16 January 2005 04:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, talking about lyrics on Italian prog albums...most of them are totally tasteless!
These bands worked always on easily manageable concepts like "The Bible" or "The birth of mankind" so final results were often laughable to say the least - "hey! little man, lost in the universe..." and so on.
But the point about Italian prog is, obviously, the pomp, the grandiosity and the sublimely ridicolous, so bad lyrics are just a plus.

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Sunday, 16 January 2005 15:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

During our current crazy crazy blizzard here in the Northeast (US), I'm working my way through the Battiato albums I own -- it's like my own cocoon of otherworld in the middle of the swirling snow. I just wish I had more than four records.

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Sunday, 23 January 2005 02:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

Which ones do you have? I'm working my way through Francesco Buccheri's "Journey / Second Journey" CD - I've never been able to work out whether the tape speed is fluctuating on the last couple of songs on "Journey" or whether it's just the synthesizer. I think it's actually the tape.

― Pangolino again, Sunday, 23 January 2005 03:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've already listened to Sulle Corde di Aries, Fetus, and Pollution, and I just threw on Clic -- they're all on CD, I'm not a hotshot collector or anything. They're so, so fucking great, all of them -- I want more!

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Sunday, 23 January 2005 03:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm so glad for all the CD reissues; it's just crazy how expensive so many albums have become. I was quite surprised by "Sulla Corde di Aries" - I heard it after "Pollution", "Fetus", "Za" and "Arca di Noe". The picture on the back of "Fetus" looks so much like this guy I know that I laugh whenever I see it.

― Pangolino again, Sunday, 23 January 2005 03:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

ok, fine. no need to start a new thread.

area, osanna, banco - these are good places to start?

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 18 March 2005 15:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

i dunno. osanna's "l'uomo" is pretty good, though.

but what i wanted to say! is that il balletto di bronzo's "ys" is great, but "sirio 2222" is greater! and it's not really prog at all so i don't even know why i'm discussing it here!

― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

I used to have Osanna's "Palepoli" and it was truly a bit much. Bits of it sounded like they'd put King Crimson, Yes and the Procol Harum all together in one studio and got them all to play at once.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 18 March 2005 16:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

― J0hn D., Sunday, 24 August 2008 14:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

that's a personal favorite. the one after it (living mask) is even more bizarre. like the 80s legendary pink dots doing jacula covers.

― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Monday, 25 August 2008 01:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

It's like these guys only sing in Italian.

― Abbott, Saturday, 30 August 2008 23:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

Italy's Semiramis gave the world the scariest ablum cover:

― Abbott, Saturday, 30 August 2008 23:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

ho ho ho

― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Sunday, 31 August 2008 03:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

So is Italian prog ever going to undergo a major hipster revival? Or did it already and I just wasn't paying attention?

― i fuck mathematics, Sunday, 31 August 2008 05:10 (4 years ago) Permalink

...because it would be awesome to have some readily-available deluxe remasters of some of this stuff.

― i fuck mathematics, Sunday, 31 August 2008 05:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dunno about deluxe, but itaprog stuff tends to stay available. syn-phonic has a ton of it.

― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Sunday, 31 August 2008 05:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

Oh, I have a lot of this stuff, but it would just be awesome to have shinier versions and more coverage of it in general. Like, if there were an Italoprog equivalent of Kraut/Japrocksampler.

(Things seem to already be sort of like that in Japan -- I went pretty prog-crazy during my vacation there. Even an average-sized Tower Records would have a decent selection of albums by Area, Goblin, PFM, etc. as well as pretty much all other europrog. And the prog branch of Disk Union in Tokyo -- holy shit. MAGMA NECKTIES! But I digress.)

― i fuck mathematics, Sunday, 31 August 2008 05:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

Saw on Forcedexposure that early demoes for Ys by Baletto di Bronzo had just been released on cd and lp.

Been trying to find remasters of Area material since there were suddenly reviews in Record Collector of the lps sometime last year. Still not come across any & the previous Cramps cds are very quiet and probably late 80s judging by the sound.

Noticed there was an encyclopaedia type book of Italian prog being advertised here http://www.italianprog.com/welcome.htm
but unfortunately the link to btf.it seems to be dead. shame that was a really good cheapish source for Italian prog with reasonable p+p

― Stevolende, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

So is Italian prog ever going to undergo a major hipster revival?

This still needs to happen.
I've been picking up a lot of Italian 70s stuff in the last couple of years, some of the "one shot" bands are incredible, especially Maxophone and Semiramis.

― My Teenage Neo-Prog Shame (Matt #2), Tuesday, 8 March 2011 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Been living in Rome the last half year, and trying to buy almost only Italian music. Franco Battiato's first few albums (especially 'Fetus') have been absolute favorites for many years, and I really liked Balletto di Bronzo and Goblin, but generally I'm more familiar with weird soundtrack/sound library/Morricone stuff and a little Italo Disco, and random acts like Krisma. I knew Le Orme by one album, so took a chance on an 11-CD set of their albums, and I think they remain the best of what I've tested of the 60s/70s scene. Especially surprised by how great the 1979 album 'Florian' is--reminds me a lot of Penguin Cafe Orchestra, always a good thing in my book. Also a "supergroup" (I'm told) called Carnascialia is pretty cool in a similar vein of mining antiquarian instrumentation toward modern ends.

Unfortunately just couldn't get into Area--actually exchanged the couple of albums I picked up. Weirdly, I do like the Demetrio Stratos album 'Cantare le Voce,' which is incredibly weird vocal warbling. I like some Fabrizio De Andre, Claudio Lolli, some New Trolls, Ibis, Osanna, Alan Sorrenti, Renato Zero, Jumbo, Sensations Fix, Latte e Miele. But I hate to say it--nothing has just blown me away. A lot of it makes even fairly middling Krautrock seem really strong, or French rock--maybe I'm just looking in the wrong directions. I think to some degree its the vocal/melodic traditions that I just don't dig--a lot of guys who really, really can't sing belting it out with tuneless conviction and a sort of emotional drama that isn't my style. I'm assuming the lyrics are awful, but fortunately I don't speak Italian so I'm spared drama on that front.

The one thing that remains unbelievable to me is that the proto-Gruppo d'Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza group The Feed Back hasn't been reissued. That album is one of the very best things Mutant Sounds has ever shared.

I've got a week left in the country--can anybody point me to what I'm missing? Is there anyone even close to Franco Battiato out there to be found?

― Soundslike, Friday, 27 April 2012 14:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wish Julian Cope would do an Italian book. Could do with something like that, would like something that gave a set of atmospheric reviews of material.

I may have a semi definitive list of essential stuff somewhere. I got somebody to give me one when i was looking into the scene in the middle of the last decade.

yeah, found this and the date I had for it was 2004. Btf.it might be about the best place to be buying things from. think prices are reasonably cheap as was p+p. think there's a link to a website which is the source of an encyclopedia type book on the scene there too
http://www.italianprog.com/index.htm
there's also this one http://www.italianprogrock.com/artists.php

list is this
Alphataurus - Same
Apoteosi - Same
Atlantide - Frencesco Ti Ricordi
Bambibanda E Melodie - Same
Blocco Mentale - Poa
Califfi - Fiore Di Metallo
Campo Di Marte - Same
Citta Frontale - El Tor
Circus 2000 - Same and An Escape From A Box
Dalton - Riflessioni-Idea I'nfinito
Duello Madre - Same
Edgar Allan Poe - Generazioni (Storia Di Sempre)
Electric Frankenstein - What Me Worry?
Flea - Topi O Uomini
Formula 3 - All Albums
Garybaldi - Nuda and Astrolabio
I Giganti - Terra In Bocca
Locanda Delle Fate - Forse Le Lucciole Si Amano Piu
Maxophone - Same
Murple - I Sono Murple
Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra
Nouva Idea - All Albums
Osage Tribe - Arrow Head
Osanna - L'Oumo and Palepoli
Il Paese Di Balocchi - Same
Panna Freda - Uno
Planetarium - Infinity
Quella Vecchia Locanda - Same (stay of their 2nd)
Raccomandata Ricevuta Ritorno - Per...Un Mondo Di Cristallo
I Raminghi - Il Lungo Cammino Dei Raminghi
Ricordi D'infanzia - Io Uomo
Il Rovescio Della Medaglia - All Albums
Samadhi - Same
Semiramis - Dedicato A Frazz
I Teoremi - Same
The Trip - All Albums
L'Uovo Di Colombo - Same

That's about sums it up...

Stevo

― Stevolende, Friday, 27 April 2012 20:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

who are you excited to see at FARFEST this year?

― scott seward, Friday, 27 April 2012 20:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

When is somebody going to remaster the Area stuff? Been waiting for somebody to do so since getting the Caution Radiation Area in the old Cramps version about 10 years ago.
Just had a track come on my walkman way too quiet and had me thinking I was probably missing a lot of the details. & a couple of years back a couple of review sections had several titles mentioned, think it was Record Collector and possibly Shindig, but I couldn't find any mention of an actual release & I did ask on nearly every forum that might cover them to no answer.

Was there an Akarma box set on them some years ago & if so what was the sound on that like?

― Stevolende, Saturday, 28 April 2012 17:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

this sensations fix reissue is the bomb!

― the late great, Saturday, 20 October 2012 22:59 (7 months ago) Permalink

Anyone heard if the actual albums (Sensations Fix) are getting reissued? I never managed to track down the Italian Prog box sets that contain them, when I was living in Italy, and they're crazy expensive now elsewhere. Definitely one of the very best Italian Prog bands--but unfortunately to large degree because they don't sound much like Italian Prog.

― Soundslike, Sunday, 21 October 2012 00:58 (7 months ago) Permalink

Probably find somebody wanting to if this compi, which I need to pick up, is successful. I'm not sure if I've heard of anybody doing much Italian prog recently. Would check either ESoteric or Sunbeam, probably Repertoire too.

― Stevolende, Sunday, 21 October 2012 12:37 (7 months ago) Permalink

it isn't even very prog, let alone italian prog ... but it is beautiful

― the late great, Sunday, 21 October 2012 17:35 (7 months ago) Permalink

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