Spotify - anyone heard of it?

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some artist tag crapness tho

Teahouse Foxtrot (blueski), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 16:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

the radio is fun for discovering things totally insane and cheesy

sonderangerbot, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 16:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh wow the quality is actually pretty good.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 19:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

The radio thing is indeed cool. I'm trying to get it to find me some techno from the 50s.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 19:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

the quality is good, the range not so much, but this could well prove useful.

country matters, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 19:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

Presumably the range will increase as they agree deals with more record companies? It seems fine for major label stuff and a quick search for eg Kompakt pulls up a lot.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 20:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

does it pass the melt banana test?

koogs, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 20:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

the range seems identical to what's on 7digital (and therefore itunes i think). eg they have trina's first and third albums but inexplicably not her second or fourth. i dunno how much use i'll have for spotify but kudos for how well it works, the quality of the tracks etc - the tags need ironing out but i'm sure they'll do this in time.

lex pretend, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 20:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

actually it'll be most useful for stuff like the goldfrapp album this year - i didn't really expect to love it but i wanted to hear it, so obv i wouldn't buy it but couldn't be arsed blagging it. that's a ton of consumer laziness in there.

lex pretend, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 20:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

oh god i should've said i was american! fuck. could've got access to all the hip-hop and r&b which never makes it over to this godforsaken, miserable island.

lex pretend, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 21:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

Do they have a license for the US now? I don't think they did a couple of weeks ago...

Four MB albums, Deano: Teeny Shiny, Bambi's Dilemma, Charlie and Scratch or Stitch.

Stevie T, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 21:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

does not work in australia yet

Suggesteban Buttez (jabba hands), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 22:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

Just searched for The Recession and that shows up in its entirety, and it hasn't been released here at all right?

It's really good for the one-album playback when you've no idea if you'll like it or not and can't be arsed downloading.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 23:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah i'm basically going through albums i've been wondering about checking out but didn't have the hd space for.

king lame (c sharp major), Wednesday, 3 December 2008 23:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

no the recession was released here, but the label didn't bother telling the pr - she only realised when she looked on amazon and found it had been there for a fortnight

lex pretend, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 23:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

"80s funk house disco" radio suggests Jive Bunny and the Mastermixers!

ailsa, Wednesday, 3 December 2008 23:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

> Four MB albums, Deano

thanks. we don't have any, amazon.co.uk mp3 store has scratch n stitch and a couple of tracks from compilations, emusic had a lot... all these people seem to be getting their info from the same places though, they all make the same mistakes (search for broadcast on amazon - details are about duophonic / warp broadcast but the listed albums aren't)

koogs, Thursday, 4 December 2008 09:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

One detail I like: when it gets to the end of what I've queued up, it just continues with the current album without me needing to ask it to. (I suppose I can see how someone might not like this, though.)

anatol_merklich, Thursday, 4 December 2008 19:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

Finally got round to sorting scrobbling for this (there's a windows messenger box ticked by default in the last.fm client that somehow stops Scrobblify from working). So far I'm really liking Spotify - handy for hearng stuff you randomly think on that you haven't got in your library or for legal trying before you buy. The adverts don't annoy me in the slightest.

slag move (onimo), Thursday, 4 December 2008 22:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

fails Boredoms test :(

slag move (onimo), Thursday, 4 December 2008 23:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

anyone got a spotfiy INVITE?

jordan s (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 4 December 2008 23:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

If not, try the "oooh ask me please!" option on the website ("Get started" -> email in "Not invited?" field). Took about five days for me, was surprised to get it at all actually.

anatol_merklich, Thursday, 4 December 2008 23:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

jordan, webmail me an email address to send an invite to.

slag move (onimo), Thursday, 4 December 2008 23:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

didn't get asked for an invite here, just got straight in

stet, Thursday, 4 December 2008 23:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

This is amazing! You type in what you want to listen to, and then you are listening to it. all this needs is to work on an iphone, and then i'll buy an iphone, and then i will have achieved bliss.

Slumpman, Sunday, 7 December 2008 12:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

Mine appears to have made it through an album without giving me any adverts. Maybe they've bumped me up to a pro account without realising it.

Matt DC, Sunday, 14 December 2008 14:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

you can now scrobble to last.fm from within spotify (it's in 'preferences')

braveclub, Sunday, 21 December 2008 12:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

That's handy, saves me running that scrobblify thing at the same time.

Spotify lists 'The Prodigy' as 'Prodigy' and makes last.fm think this guy sings Smack My Bitch Up and Out of Space

dj onimotian (onimo), Sunday, 21 December 2008 13:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

4 weeks pass...

can someone please send me an invite?

thanks!!

kaiser, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 14:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

Er....

https://www.spotify.com/en/get-started/

Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 14:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

Think there's still a waiting list though.

<3 this service btw.

Beloved lightbulb (Neil S), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 14:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

Got in straight away with the link I posted.

Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 15:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

Aha they've obviously opened it up!

Beloved lightbulb (Neil S), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 15:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

Downside is loads more ads (I've heard two during the same album), but you can hear them coming after a while and tune out. Still great.

chord simple (j.o.n.a), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 15:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

thanks Chewshabadoo but I need an invitation code.

Please!

kaiser, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 19:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

If i hear gareth jones from cardiff reciting pi again i'll scream

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 19:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

(advert)

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 19:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

And I'm not buying that White Lies record either.

Beloved lightbulb (Neil S), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 20:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

At least it doesn't scrobble the adverts

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 20:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

jonathan from spotify sounds remarkably like Michael Vaughan

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 20:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

wtf 2 adverts in a row (the 2nd was for that White Lies album)

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 20:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

See what I mean about them? The Killers meet Editors big wowz!

Beloved lightbulb (Neil S), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 20:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

can i get a spotify invite

dugong.jpg (jabba hands), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

thanks Chewshabadoo but I need an invitation code.

Please!

― kaiser, Tuesday, January 20, 2009 7:55 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

can i get a spotify invite

― dugong.jpg (jabba hands), Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:03 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark

Have any of you actually tried the link posted? Quite a few of my friends in the UK have used the link and joined today. Maybe it doesn't work in other countries...

\o.0/

Chewshabadoo, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm in the US and that link asks for one of two things:

1)an invite code

or

2)your email address so they can notify you when it goes "public"

I wonder what their excuse is. Don't they want more people to hear their stupid ads?

I am a vampire, therefore I take garlic pills (Bimble), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

is it UK only?

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

mr bimble check your email

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

It's odd and a fucking pain how Spotify often doesn't specify that tracks are remixes in any way.

Glansel & Gretel (Raw Patrick), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

i'm in the US and unless something changed in the last few days, we can't use spotify and all the workarounds have been blocked

miss precious perfect (musically), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 00:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

2)your email address so they can notify you when it goes "public"

I selected this a couple of weeks ago, and got an invite from them within the same day. May not be the case now, of course.

anatol_merklich, Friday, 23 January 2009 06:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

That $900 was from 1 song. That's $900 more for that song than they would have made if they weren't on Spotify.

brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 20:55 (Yesterday) Permalink

well yeah, especially since they've made zero effort to promote it elsewhere.

there's nothing "fair" about saying "yes but croup you obv don't think spotify is great" in response to that

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 20:56 (Yesterday) Permalink

i'm not making any claims about who did what for whom and why. i noticed something unusual, and found a pretty key piece of information left out. and all i had to do to do that was google the band's name - something you'd think they'd want if they're promoting a band rather than a service.

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 20:59 (Yesterday) Permalink

i should say the "former" status of industry dude is self-professed. no word how he's surviving off $900 made over the last year

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 21:01 (Yesterday) Permalink

so a band makes it onto a playlist. maybe it was chosen via likes/followers/whatever, which is what every music-editorial outlet and radio station does. (there was a long piece about radio 1 wrt this: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/may/25/radio-1-playlist-secrets-uncovered-battle-of-brands). or maybe there was a promotional/sponsored deal that got them onto this playlist, which is what every music-editorial outlet and radio station does. (see payola, see On the Verge, see a bunch of things I shouldn't have to write out as news.)

or maybe, just maybe, the spotify employee who did that particular playlist really liked that band, or some other band without super-impressive follower numbers (which are gamed and bought so hard that you really can't use them alone as an indicator of anything, but that's another story) and snuck them onto a playlist because they aren't tightly monitored and they can get away with it. when I used to write for a pop site I'd do roundups and throw in, from time to time, videos by small bands I really liked who made music simpatico to what we've been covering. when I currently select tracks for a pop site I do the same. (the nice thing about this, and the thing that people who obsess about followers and shares don't seem to have internalized, is that such acts are far more likely to retweet, post to facebook, whatever, because they are not constantly inundated with requests to do so and they are probably genuinely surprised and happy for the coverage. and you get decent numbers out of that, as in, I've seen the numbers with my own eyes. not colossal, but enough to make it worth doing.)

anyway, I'm not saying it's the most likely possibility, but it's a possibility. the rest is just how the industry works

katherine, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:29 (Yesterday) Permalink

also, I know very little about how spotify does their official playlists, whether they are done internally (and whether it's editorial or business or interns or whatever) or farmed out to contractors or what, and whether there's tight oversight of analytics or whether you can, as upthread, just throw darts in the dark, but the barrier to entry to placing some band onto a Beards and Flannel playlist is probably far lower than premiering that band on a music website.

katherine, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:40 (Yesterday) Permalink

It's true, it could just be that a guy at spotify just happened to like a song by a band made of self-professed "industry vets" who then responded to the unexpected attention by promoting spotify rather than their band.

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:45 (Yesterday) Permalink

you really think this piece does more for spotify than it does for the band?

katherine, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:47 (Yesterday) Permalink

I'm pretty curious about spotify playlists myself, I have a friend who works for them in a menial capacity & keep meaning to ask her about this. maybe glenn can shed some light on the subject

why do I hate that thing (excluding imago, marcos) (wins), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:47 (Yesterday) Permalink

Did you read the piece, Katherine? Does it strike you as aimed towards getting them past fifty followers on their bimonthly updated twitter?

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:50 (Yesterday) Permalink

For a group excited about engaging the new marketplace they seem to not actually do it, except to thank the angel that plucked them from obscurity and got them 900 bucks

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:52 (Yesterday) Permalink

^ works for dogetunes

$0.00 Butter sauce only. No marinara. (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:55 (Yesterday) Permalink

Excuse me I have been very up front about my relationship with ghosttunes and is appreciate a little faith that my criticisms here are unaffected by Garth being my BFF

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:05 (Yesterday) Permalink

I'm with Katherine here. I think this is a band that was living in fair obscurity--I was going to say "toiling" but I don't think they were even doing that--and they got picked up by some chance onto Spotify's playlist. Maybe the maker of that playlist was by a fan, or maybe it was a "music industry vet" friend of theirs. I doubt the band was somehow expected or required to write PR for Spotify in return. If I were in a band that is apparently not trying hard at all to promote themselves (based on dc's social media stats above), I'd be pretty stoked on Spotify's attention too. They wouldn't need to make some nefarious under-the-table deal with me for me to speak positively about my experience.

The thing I noticed most in that article? This obscure band talks about how many plays their one song has gotten--which makes you wonder, "wait, who is this band?"--and what do you know, there's a Spotify embed of their song in the article. So every reader of Wired now has the opportunity to click that stream and help this band make another $900. Of course the hook of the article has to be Spotify and not the band, otherwise no one would read this and no one would click on their track.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:14 (Yesterday) Permalink

just a sweet innocent band of industry vets who barely acknowledge the internet until spotify gives them 900 bucks at which point they write a long article with pie charts about how the future looks bright

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:28 (Yesterday) Permalink

It's true, it could just be that a guy at spotify just happened to like a song by a band made of self-professed "industry vets" who then responded to the unexpected attention by promoting spotify rather than their band.

lol this is exactly what I'm talking about, this pretty pure-conjecture-but-I-know-the-real-story stance - most of the time when you flex this kinda insider-info about the industry, it doesn't really match my own limited-but-inside view of the industry

like, no shots, for real, but to me you come off like the guy explaining how all the drugs work who then reveals he hasn't actually taken any drugs

The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:32 (Yesterday) Permalink

you picked a weird bit to quote as me "flexing insider info" - my tongue-in-cheek description of the alternative hypothesis

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:33 (Yesterday) Permalink

lol misread you then, my bad

The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:34 (Yesterday) Permalink

you could just say "you think your so great" if you're not willing to actually read what you quote

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:35 (Yesterday) Permalink

but your thing reads as "there's no way an employee at spotify liked something, gave it the recommendation and it did well" -- whereas I have direct experience (years ago, but it's the same principle) of "an employee at Yahoo! liked your stuff, decided to make it pick of the day, and you made 500 bucks that week and your website got more hits than you could have possibly anticipated" -- people do actually, you know, like stuff and decide to use their positions to give it some shine

The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:36 (Yesterday) Permalink

I mean I seriously do feel like you have a bunch of zero-source "everybody knows this is how it works" stuff about the industry, and it literally never matches my (again, limited, small-game, but still) experience of said industry. ever.

The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:38 (Yesterday) Permalink

ok now you've read half what i wrote. i never said random luck never hits obscure bands. i'm just questioning why a band who does so little to engage the internet would then go hog wild to promote the company that did them a solid. yahoo got you some cash - did you start a tumblr to write a long article about how yahoo is the future and that people hating on yahoo are fools and then get it reposted to wire?

fyi all insider info i'm flexing here can be found by reading the article and googling "moke hill"

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:39 (Yesterday) Permalink

wired, rather

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:40 (Yesterday) Permalink

also said article never mentions being singled out by spotify - would your "hooray for yahoo" article have not mentioned they made it "pick of the day"?

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:41 (Yesterday) Permalink

just a sweet innocent band of industry vets who barely acknowledge the internet until spotify gives them 900 bucks at which point they write a long article with pie charts about how the future looks bright

― da croupier, Wednesday, November 26, 2014 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, that's what I said. If I was used to making $0 and then I made $900 I would think the future looks bright. And if I could get my song embedded in a Wired article then I would still think my future looks bright.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:42 (Yesterday) Permalink

personally i don't think industry vets who get rapturous about making 900 bucks over a year should get to call themselves industry vets

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:45 (Yesterday) Permalink

shit i don't think you even have to be an industry vet to question whether that 900 bucks is oil bubbling up from jed's land, just an adult

da croupier, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 23:47 (Yesterday) Permalink

I don't think it's a stretch to say that the band started doing PR in earnest. (the wired article says "no PR," but "several years on the business side of the industry" is plausibly enough to know the right people and get emails opened.) "in earnest" apparently included placement on a Spotify playlist, for whatever reason. maybe it was an email some playlist guy opened, maybe it was a sponsored deal, maybe it was a longtime fan who just happened to land at spotify. the point is, this is very unremarkably how things work, and the Wired piece not mentioning the exact playlist is not proof of some massive conspiracy.

katherine, Thursday, 27 November 2014 00:46 (3 hours ago) Permalink

you gotta wonder why i've bothered repeatedly noting I'm not saying there's necessarily a massive conspiracy

but you also gotta wonder led by someone who writes shit like

Rather than fighting, I believe the industry should embrace the change that’s coming (or more accurately, the change that has already arrived). Technological advances have made mobile access to millions of songs a reality – this is a great thing for music fans. Subscribers paying for the mobile version of Spotify in the US are spending ~$120 per year on the service – well above (almost 5x by some reports) what the average music listener spends on music per year. More people spending more money on recorded music (since Spotify’s total revenue increases with each new user) leads to bigger payouts for artists, writers, labels and publishing companies alike.

and

As for Moke Hill, we’ve spent next to nothing to get our songs on Spotify and it has exposed us to tens of thousands of people around the world who never would have heard our music otherwise. Spotify is not only paying us, but building our fan base while paying us, which will eventually make it easier to sell tickets to shows.

wouldn't manage to capitalize off their fluke hit beyond having a whopping 246 followers on spotify. ffs brokencyde has over 22,000.

you also might wonder why this person has seemingly never posted an article before on the internet.

da croupier, Thursday, 27 November 2014 00:52 (3 hours ago) Permalink

hell even a paragraph of text

da croupier, Thursday, 27 November 2014 00:54 (3 hours ago) Permalink

woops, meant to say "gotta wonder why a band led by someone..."

forgive me if it seems like these guys are exceptionally verbose and grateful for 900 bucks

da croupier, Thursday, 27 November 2014 00:57 (3 hours ago) Permalink

"I purchased Dr. Dre's Tha Chronic like 7 times, turns out my dad was throwing it out every time he saw it laying around."

Solid argument for streaming in the comments.

doesn’t matter what the content is, as long as it’s content (onimo), Thursday, 27 November 2014 01:02 (3 hours ago) Permalink

you don't think having your band at the center of a wired article is "capitalizing"? (and when I said it did more for them than spotify, what I meant was the odds of someone saying "wow, spotify isn't so bad after all, my mind has been swayed by this one band" or "wow, I have never heard of this large, ubiquitous company even though I read WIRED," I'm going to check it out" are exponentially smaller than the odds of someone saying "wow, I like this band, I'm going to check them out."

katherine, Thursday, 27 November 2014 01:07 (3 hours ago) Permalink

katherine if a band who posts single sentences on social media once every two months suddenly were driven to write multiple paragraphs of pro-spotify statistics and anti-taylor swift/aloe blacc talking points because they got 900 bucks and a follower count that's a fifth of what some rock critics have, and the reason was that they wanted to get that WIRED crowd onto the Moke Hill train...these guys have to be pretty dumb fucks.

what's funny the usual dumb fuck musician in the same situation could have easily posted on facebook "spotify randomly put us in a playlist, and suddenly one of our songs had 300,000k streams instead of 5,000. pretty sweet right? actually, we've just gotten 900 bucks. sure, that was nice but it barely put us on the map otherwise. it doesn't seem we got much in the way of publicity." at which point people would note they probably suck and could stand to get off their ass and not expect spotify to do everything for them.

da croupier, Thursday, 27 November 2014 01:12 (3 hours ago) Permalink

just read his editorial, wow it's a lot of bullshit

I think you really have a weird sense of how much it means the first time you get anywhere near Actual Money for your music -- like, 900 bucks...is fucking 900 bucks, it's incredibly super-nice to get a check for that amount - the first time I made a grand in a night was '98, I still remember it really clearly because it was like holy shit. a thousand dollars. takes me three and a half weeks to earn that normally. I am still talking about it. but this dude used to be a publicist evidently? and people are seriously asking musicians right and left "wanna write a Spotify article?" pro or con because they're getting linked, so I'd guess this guy thought "I can write one and generate further publicity for myself"

The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Thursday, 27 November 2014 01:52 (2 hours ago) Permalink

Omg why are people acting like this guys some sweet noob getting lucky kisses from wired and spotify when he's a self described industry veteran with management label experience, who literally started a tumblr for his band just to post this article

Why the hell is my noting this is weird and suspsish causing people to half-read my posts and respond like I'm bob lefsetz screaming about the saucer people

da croupier, Thursday, 27 November 2014 02:00 (2 hours ago) Permalink

lol no idea. My reaction was exactly same as yours (minus the investigation part because you've already done it).

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 27 November 2014 02:03 (2 hours ago) Permalink

Bless you sir was reaching frustration level mugatu

da croupier, Thursday, 27 November 2014 02:08 (2 hours ago) Permalink

the author and co-founder of Moke Hill's motivation is pretty clear

"Imagine if Spotify were embraced by notable musicians and revenue grew to 10 times what it is today (and the streams per song along with it); the singles mentioned above could be generating $9 to $17 million dollars each—for one song."

it's easy if you try...

saki, Thursday, 27 November 2014 02:11 (2 hours ago) Permalink

Different playlists on Spotify get done different ways. Some involve significant personal input, some are much more numbers-driven. I don't know the exact story behind Beards & Flannel, but it's an individual's list that has been featured in the Spotify editorial section, not an official Spotify company-produced list. It's got 28k followers, and the follower-count is usually a smallish fraction of the listeners, so that song might have reached ~100k people by appearing on that list. It's sort of like getting played on a college radio show, except that list doesn't change very often, and Moke Hill's song has been on there since January, so I guess it's like being put into long-term rotation on a very small station.

glenn mcdonald, Thursday, 27 November 2014 02:24 (2 hours ago) Permalink


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