funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

bit like how you can't really blame tim for robin thicke stealing your r&b crown eh.

"Aren't you the journalist 'dilettante of cheesy street music from around the world recontentextualising genre as momentary incarnation of pop spirit'?"

Probably, but the difference is that nobody takes me seriously. Also, my way tends to result in better music. You can take Loefah and I can take Quentin Harris (but actually the above's not an accurate summation of my taste w/r/t funky - I've been repping for Roska and Little Silver etc. as hard as anyone in this thread). Sure Kode9 was prescient w/r/t his soca-grime comment (although this in itself was pretty obvious at the time, it's the "not house" bit I think is more interesting). But he was also prescient when he was making "death garage" back in 2000. That doesn't mean those tracks weren't pretty dire though! And they pretty clearly set the trend for a whole slather of mediocre dubstep b/w 2002 and 2006. Not that this is Kode9's fault, I doubt more than a handful of dubstep producers have ever heard his early work. But it's pretty clear that this mindset - that whole post-techstep fear of the future / technology takes control narrative - is inimical to a good deal of what makes funky great music.

Anyway I don't mean to hate, his remix of Geiom's "Reminiscin" is one of my favourite dubstep tunes of 2008, I adore about 70% of Memories of the Future, and obv. he's done heaps of great things over the years. In a lot of ways it's great he's into funky - by and large he's always had great ears I reckon.

DJ/Rupture disliking dubstep (well, until Uproot, which ironically is pretty good) actually fits my comparison! Because the context of Kode9 playing funky was him saying he feels uninspired by dubstep having become too, hard, too masculine etc.

Both these guys are very self-conscious about not simply becoming The Bug, they want to maintain a connection to street music in its genuineness and wholeness - on Gold Teeth Thief (still a great mix) Rupture obviously wasn't afraid of R&B vocals and street rap and the like, it wasn't like he was committing a wholesale plunder of street music sounds so as to recontextualise them in indie friendly contexts.

Nonetheless, despite their best intentions neither Rupture nor Kode9 can prevent their curatorial hands from turning everything they touch into something just a little more serious or worthy than it was before. It's something I'm mindful of in writing about this stuff - but again, the difference is nobody really takes me seriously.

"Nonetheless, despite their best intentions neither Rupture nor Kode9 can prevent their curatorial hands from turning everything they touch into something just a little more serious or worthy than it was before. It's something I'm mindful of in writing about this stuff - but again, the difference is nobody really takes me seriously."

Thats a bit of a cop out isn't it. Lots of people read your stuff Tim. Of course, mainly the chattering classes of the music press/blogosphere looking for a hot tip, but not just those. Your writing on ukg and funky is great. But doesn't your informed and intelligent writing have exactly the same effect i.e. makes underground pop more worthy than it was before, forcing people to take it more seriously. Is your issues here that you are a popist and accusing them of being rockists, if i'm understanding that idea correctly.

Well, thanks Jon. I guess when I say people don't take what I say seriously, I mean that my writing doesn't become part of a feedback loop that affects the music itself, except in a very diffuse sense. Whereas if Kode9 gets dubstep fans listening to the grimmer end of funky (and certainly this is as much as we can hope for, already a lot of these types draw distinctions between Apple, Roska etc. on the one hand and Crazi Cousinz etc. on the other), inevitably there'll be effects on the music in terms of the tracks that get produced, the tracks that get big, the nights that are successful etc.

Yes, my writing may have the effect of making people take this music more seriously, or at least I'd like to hope so. But I also like to think that it invites people to take seriously music that doesn't necessarily satisfy the familiar "tests" of seriousness - moodiness, "deepness", a general air of seriousness that characterises even the best dubstep (and I should stress again that i've loved heap of dubstep this year). I wouldn't consider myself to be approaching this music in a popist way because I'm not only interested in this stuff insofar as it intersects with crossover pop music ("Do You Mind", "Bongo Jam", perhaps "In The Air" if Perempae gets lucky); rather I like to think that if my writing prevents a certain "notion" of funky, the distance between the notion and the real thing (or, to put it another way, the distorting effect of my ideological imprint) is relatively minimal. That is, I want to try to connect with funky exactly as it is - populist and underground, traditional and avant, anthemic and minimal, fluffy and aggressive... That might make me rather uncritical, but it's motivated less by ideology and more by the fact that I genuinely do enjoy the full range of this stuff.

hey Tim, can you recommend a good set that captures the lighter end of funky?

Have you actually spoken to Kode about this Tim? Because I think you're over extrapolating from one, early, radio interview and his position on the music is significantly different from that you're very negatively portraying.

inevitably there'll be effects on the music in terms of the tracks that get produced, the tracks that get big, the nights that are successful etc.

fwiw i don't think there's any reaction against the 'poppier' or cheesier end of this at any of the nights i've been to - really wish i'd gone to fwd on sunday so i could report back for myself, but people i know who ~love~ the crazy cousinz end of funky also loved kode9's set, so i don't think there's much to worry about at all. i can possibly see it moving away from the housier end of things but that might be more due to an influx of djs and producers who aren't that well-versed in it, rather than anything more uh philosophical.

"omg that's exactly what melissa and i were saying after the first beyond night (in comparison to the circle night we'd been to before that) - it was so exactly like fwd for ages

isn't that exactly the purpose of Beyond though? Putting it in the West End, putting Kode on the bill, with all the clear resonances of early FWD and Speed parties. This is in comparison to Rinse's Incognito, which was last held in Gants Hill and was, by all reports, obviously, quite a different demographic...

"Have you actually spoken to Kode about this Tim? Because I think you're over extrapolating from one, early, radio interview and his position on the music is significantly different from that you're very negatively portraying."

May well be the case. If he's playing vocal tracks now I'll take it all back. Having said that, the very fact that they're trying to make a funky night with resonances of early FWD and Speed tends to make me think that the dynamic i'm imagining isn't so imaginary.

Reverend, "light" funky dj sets can be a bit misleading - in my experience when the DJs have a consciously lighter style it means they play a lot of US vocal house, rather than, say, lots of Crazi Cousinz remixes. Most of the DJs I've heard who focus on UK material play pretty much the full spectrum.

In the former style, I have a good Perempay set which I'm trying to find a link for.

See also Baby Face Jay's myspace page for downloadable sets.

who's 'they' though tim, this is Geeneus' night and was filled with DJs like MA1, the Circle boys, and gee is very keen to keep funky vocal and feminine. Kode was merely the warm up DJ, when no one was there.

now, having no-one there does have the resonance of FWD, i'll give you that, but the reason for the dancefloor space is because (i'm told) the funky lot dont come out until much later. by the mid and end the night got much busier, more vocal and housey.

alright, thanks! xp

w/r/t this stuff I'm totally hostage to what you guys tell me. My concerns are more bound up in how this stuff gets received - every dubstep fan I know over here (and there are millions of them now) who I ask about funky gives me the same spiel: "oh yeah Kode9 is into that right? I don't like vocal shit but that Apple guy is good..." Probably it's even worse over here than in the UK because those dubstep fans are comfortably insulated from the reality of funky.

in terms of funky sets, i can't wait to hear the mixed cd which comes with the geeneus album - just look at this setlist. amel larrieux! monique bingham!

Disc 2 - Bonus Mix CD

1. Thommy Davis - Mars Needs Women (Spen & Thommy Mix)
2. Crazi Cousinz - Bongo Jam
3. Underground Collective - Jesus Creates Sound
4. Donaeo - Devil In A Blue Dress
5. Suges - We Belong To The Night
6. Fingaprint - Night Time In July
7. Zinc - Fatima Track
8. Arvark - Well Well Well
9. Perempay + Dee Feat. Katie Pearl - In The Air
10. Geeneus - In To The Future
11. The Dream Sellers - Do It Better
12. Sucre Danny Tejada
13. Naughty - Quicktime Vip
14. Kentphonic - Sunday Showers
15. Geeneus - Yellowtail
16. Naughty - Fire Power
17. Roska - Feline
18. Ralf Gum & Monique Bingham - Kissing Strangers
19. Plash + Friends - Revolution = Solution
20. Mescal Kid - Majic
21. Crazi Cousinz + Kyla - Do You Mind
22. Hard House Banton - Sirens
23. Hard House Banton - Sirens (Geeneus Remix)
24. Ma1 Feat. Simone - Give It Up
25. Fingaprint - Signed + Sealed
26. Jovonn - Banger 27 Geeneus & Zinc - Emotions
27. G Fam S Frontline
28. Grand High Priest Mixdown
29. Amel Larrieux 4 Real
30. Geeneus & Katy B As I

the reason for the dancefloor space is because (i'm told) the funky lot dont come out until much later. by the mid and end the night got much busier, more vocal and housey.

yeah this makes sense, plus it's also still a fairly young night.

Yeah that Geeneus mix looks great, a nice cross-section of the scene, and I'm pleased he's got "We Belong To The Night" on there.

I only realised recently that the percussive sound that zooms through "Am I" intermittently is meant to sound like a horse galloping. It made me think of reynolds comparing funky's rhythms unfavourably to a horse's gait.

w/r/t this stuff I'm totally hostage to what you guys tell me. My concerns are more bound up in how this stuff gets received - every dubstep fan I know...

OK sure i just dont really see why you'd care what dubstep fans say?

same way dubstep heads used to care about what dnb heads said!

also though the overwhelming dominance of a certain musical ideology? or rather exclusion of another

about the first point, i wonder whether maybe funky has a much more significant base and infrastructure already that perhaps isn't as vulnerable to an influx of demands or expectations? i really hope so

"OK sure i just dont really see why you'd care what dubstep fans say?"

Because the (current) dubstep audience (which is basically the late nineties/early 00s d&b audience) is bigger than the funky audience, at least in terms of actually buying records/mp3s, and could very easily overwhelm the current funky auience simply by selectively endorsing the funky they like. I think it's already very easy to see how, with enough interest from that audience, funky could become just an endless succession of heavy instrumental tribal cuts, much like the Distance/Rusko/Caspa intersection only with the jamaican reference points replaced by african reference points. It's already happened to jungle and to dubstep...

Not to put words into his mouth but I think this is what r|t|c means when he mentions the ambivalence he feels w/r/t "Feeline (VIP Mix)" and other self-consciously heavy funky tracks.

Let's get real tim, the vast majority of dubstep fans have only a small or limited interest in funky, despite the interest from some of the more visible dubstep heads.

if funky is getting darker, it's because the bandwagon jumping from london grime producers and MCs, rather than the global dubstep scene.

BTW I was also basing my assessment of Kode9's approach to funky on the rather oppressive dystopian track titchy posted the youtube link for upthread, which seemed in accordance with the line he was pushing on Rupture's show. Are his sets not like that? (genuinely curious) What does he play?

"Let's get real tim, the vast majority of dubstep fans have only a small or limited interest in funky, despite the interest from some of the more visible dubstep heads."

Wouldn't this have been true of d&b fans and dubstep three years ago? I'm just saying history has a tendency of repeating itself in this area.

"if funky is getting darker, it's because the bandwagon jumping from london grime producers and MCs, rather than the global dubstep scene."

Yes I agree with this. I'm not trying to blame dubstep for funky getting darker, which for the most part I enjoy and approve of. There's a difference between the darkness of, say, Little Silver's "Seasons" and the darkness of the Kode9 track titchy posted upthread.

from what I've heard, i don't think that kode9 track is particularly dark, a little weird maybe.

Certainly that tack on the new release isnt dark.

Yeah "2 Bad" sounds pretty good actually.

BTW Reverend see if you can find Baby Face Jay's "Into Deep" mix, it has RiskSoundSystem's awesomely vibey "The Sound Is Yours", which is like the greatest track Quentin Harris never made.

lol. after that much mud throwing, tell me that wasnt the first time you've heard "2Bad" Tim?

Eh, I reckon I've been pretty careful to say that I think a lot of Kode9 as a producer at several points in this thread. But no I've heard "2Bad" a fair amount, though "Bad" much more often. I meant "sounds" as in "sounds like a pretty good stab at funky-not-funky."

FWIW I prefer "Bad". It's sexier.

ditto.

Ha ha King Unique's "Heads, Shoulders, Knees & Toes" - how desperate are we for dancehall-flavoured funky?

Very amateurish, but so action-packed and enthusiastic I was loving it by the end of the track.

(this from this week's footloose show)

this is so great: I've finished my thesis, don't start full time work until march, and have all summer (yr winter i'm guessing) to spend cozying up to new funky.

boomkat is stocking roska 12"s, and will probably make one of them a 'record of the week' (what an undiluted honour that is), tim's nightmare progresses...

It's worth checking midway down this thread for the Funky House Affair comp.

"boomkat is stocking roska 12"s, and will probably make one of them a 'record of the week' (what an undiluted honour that is), tim's nightmare progresses..."

Not nightmare really, there's a certain inevitability to the process.

r|t|c, the donaeo track you were asking about is called "At First Sight". Donaeo's also done a vocal version of Suge's "We Belong To The Night" - it's called "Party Hard" and it's tremendously silly.

Also either Spoonface's astonishing "Boogie Jam" is a very different track to "Boogie Time Riddim" or I'd completely forgotten what it sounded like. It's amazing! Rollicking dancehall business.

So much funky really reminds me of Lenky' Dreamweaver Riddim.

HEY AMERICA! Footloose 1XTRA archive working for me this week! hope it's sorted out for good

Marcus' show on Wednesday night was an "emotional" set for the ladies, which in Marcus terms basically means he intersperses every hard track with a vocal number. Includes n astonishing new Crazi Cousinz track which is a) clearly their response to the success of stuff like Hard House Banton's "Sirens" and b) amazing and much better than "Sirens" et. al. Built around a xylophone hook that keeps getting more intricate as the track progresses.

Also props to Spyro who obviously is responsible for the track I described upthread as:

"the one chord house anthem immediately afterwards, a bit Fuzzy Logickish, surely this is the peak of the set??? They big up Spyro while it's playing but I'm doubtful that it's him."

BUT the most amazing track on this is the absolute stunner at about the 9 minute mark that sounds like a cross between Roska and Danny Weed and Bump & Flex circa 2001 - yeah, I bet this is one for the ladies! Anyway this is officially my new "funky is the future" standard-bearer track for the next few days.

Marcus does his best to recreate the whole Footloose-patented funky mise en scene by mixing into an ace vocal track with this choice lyric: "You and me, I don't give a fuck about she..."

Oh yeah, here's a link. Big up Ben UFO for this one:

http://sharebee.com/97fc236c

Marcus' show on Wednesday night was an "emotional" set for the ladies, which in Marcus terms basically means he intersperses every hard track with a vocal number.

lol

haven't checked this yet, i find myself not that excited to listen to Marcus Nasty at the moment...

that Crazy Cousinz tune sounds like Inflation maybe? such a good tune, very bizarre vibes

hmm that italics thing didnt go so well, ho hum

King Unique's "Heads, Shoulders, Knees & Toes"

Hahahaha this rules. Tim have you seen the video that accompanies it?

did we get this one id'ed, just after the one hour mark in the marcus nasty set

the one chord house anthem immediately afterwards, a bit Fuzzy Logickish, surely this is the peak of the set??? They big up Spyro while it's playing but I'm doubtful that it's him.

I NEED THIS TUNE

It's definitely by Spyro but I don't know it's name.

Matt I haven't seen the video! Where can I shot?

Note the old geezer at the end.

Ha that's briliant. "Watch me confuse the dance now!"

Mario's "Black President" is furious 'n full on, not quite sure if he meant it to be inspirational.

The Mak 10 track on Marucs' last set OTOH is kinda shitty. Grim and funkless.

I think the key issue for me is whether the tunes retain that kind of joyful ravey vibe. I'm not really interested in moody funky. Like the three tunes I mention above (the Crazi Cousinz one, the Spyro one, the one that sounds like Danny Weed) are all really exciting and uptempo even when they're a little bit aggressive - on the last the sample goes "Time to get nasty!" (which may or may not be done specially for Marcus's dub) but it's a bit of a comedy moment as much as anything else. And the Crazi Cousinz tune is just so fiercely uplifting (I reckon Ronan would like it incidentally). The really hyper vocal tunes (stuff like "Falling" and "As I") get this vibe so effectively through their vocals but that's only one way to achieve it, and i like the way that very different types of tunes can reach toward the same kind of vibe. And it's such an exciting vibe! Not being into this stuff strikes me as a bit of a failure of taste tbh.

At the end of the day though I think there are just too many people who like stuff to be pointlessly "moody" (and not good-moody like, say, Hard House Banton's "Turn It Around", a marvelous lovesick vocal track). It'll start to take its toll eventually.

XD at that "Head Shoulders Knees N Toes" track

"At the end of the day though I think there are just too many people who like stuff to be pointlessly "moody". It'll start to take its toll eventually."

im not sure that the threat is as big as you imply, i do share your thoughts to a certain extent, but to play devil's advocate...

funky seems to have a quite huge and relatively stable infrastructure of promoters and raves, and it seems to me that really the key is what happens there... djs and producers must be making much more cash off of raves than records... bookings, dubplate sales etc, and thats what i would think would most likely drive changes to the main thrust of the sound. it just doesn't seem like boomkat selling 12s and apple getting loads of forum / blog adulation for whatever reason is gonna change that. surely the real threat is not people who want it moody or deep but those who want it aggy, if 2-step's trajectory is any indication? you listen to what most promoters or producers from within the scene are saying and the fear is of kids with attitudes and too many mc's taking over, not too much self-conscious moodiness / desire for 'deep' vibes

it also raises something which i've considered from time to time... the extent to which widely visible internet platforms (blogs, popular web mags, forums etc) can be taken to reflect the spirit of any given scene or 'the times' as it were... or whether they often present a skewed reflection of the way things are happening in clubs or scenes or whatever. i make my way to a fairly broad range of places and parties and i find that very rarely are the experiences i have there reflected by the buzz around them or the most visible 'spokespersons' of those scenes if you know what i mean. i guess what im saying in that is that 'moody' scenes and people are probably massively over represented on the internet... from being out and about in London it seems to me that relatively speaking people who only like it heads down in a club are very very few and far between

I think I agree with Benjamin here, and in any case I can think of pretty solid commercial reasons why promoters would prefer a scene dominated by uplifting, fun, girl-friendly records than one dominated by moody blokes nodding their heads.

That said most dance genres to tend towards the latter after they get to a certain age but I can't see that happening here for a good couple of years or so.

Some of those vocals and beats on the last Marcus Nasty set are pretty bland. There is practically no vocal science in the songs, no edge, which wouldnt matter if the songs were any good, but most of them just aren't. I wish funky had a 'heartbroken', perhaps that vocal on hard house bantons blog which i dont know the name of (2.08 on the first track on his blog. . name anyone?) which i love, because most of the vocals I'm hearing are just nothing, compared to say the classics of 2 step. I was pretty disappointed by some of the beats as well. I'm not hearing the 'ravey joyfulness' at all. I'm hearing ultrablandness.

Well the moody tracks I'm talking about are also "aggy" tracks - only "deep" in the sense of not being cheesy (cf. "deep" funky tracks from the more relatively more conservative end of the scene e.g. Perempay's "Hypnotic").

"I think I agree with Benjamin here, and in any case I can think of pretty solid commercial reasons why promoters would prefer a scene dominated by uplifting, fun, girl-friendly records than one dominated by moody blokes nodding their heads."

I hope you guys are right. But I ran this line for a long time with garage.

I think the issue is that promoters driven by commercial concerns can always just switch over to R&B and house if they need to. And the audiences for the lighter end of funky will for the most part happily follow if funky starts getting too masculine. After all, there's much less difference between vocal funky and regular vocal house than there was between 2-step and vocal house or 2-step and R&B.

"I'm not hearing the 'ravey joyfulness' at all. I'm hearing ultrablandness."

Which set are you talking about jon? Last week's? Some of it is bland, but mainly the crappy angry tracks (e.g. Mak 10's) that i'm complaining about... Which tracks do you mean?

I love that track with the weird wracked diva yelling "I don't want! I don't want! I don't wanna be with you!!"