Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

i also can't take that dude seriously after he wrote an actual new york times article about pitchfork reviews reviews - just thinking about the pitching/commissioning process behind that makes me want to indict both him and his editor for crimes against journalism

lex since you're here can i tell you i enjoyed your top 30 albs list a lot :)

lex his #1 album was ross ;)

:D call all destroyer

:o at the idea of anyone's no 1 album being rick ross - PART OF THE PROBLEM

i think even i would take dark stupid fantasy over the ross album

I pretty much read this thread once, before I heard the album.

Now that I've listened to it several times, I'm considering reading the whole thread again.

What do you think? Go for it? Or terrible idea?

idk i think this thread is meant to be experienced once and then forgotten as if it never existed

Main reason I'd re-read it, I guess, is to find out if others also wish Ross got more clock on "Monster."

His little bit is one of my favorite things on the album, despite the sample/example rhyme.

http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2011/01/on-white-she-devils/68822/

Ta-Nehisi throws his hat in the ring.

Nicki Minaj is a terror, and her closer on Monster called me back to Busta in the era of "Scenario."

wait...and not nicki on roman's revenge???

where does he say 'but not on roman's revenge'?

'roman's revenge' is the explicit tribute to scenario so it's weird to see him say that nicki on 'monster' is the homage

he said it reminds him of "Scenario," not that he cosiders it an homage. in fact sometimes I wonder if Nicki quoted Busta on that song because of how often she got compared to him after "Monster."

it reminded me of "Scenario" too, tbh

me too, said as much upthread. not as explicit as "roman's revenge", but very similar

http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2011/01/on-white-she-devils/68822/

Ta-Nehisi throws his hat in the ring.

― Alex in Montreal, Monday, January 3, 2011 5:00 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

gangster

caramanica OTM, whether or not he's part of the problem (note: the problem isn't people liking the kanye west album)

caramanica's piece seems like a have-your-cake-&-eat-it-too kinda thing to me, i dunno. you get to diss pfork & rs while still playing it safe by voting for the record? walk the walk imo

or at the very least, be specific about where your issues are coming up a la coates

caramanica's point isn't that it's a bad album. and how is you not especially liking the album but shouting down its detractors not a have-your-cake-&-eat-it-too kinda thing?

because im criticizing specific parts of their writing that i feel are inaccurate vs. his general distrust of, what, giving something a 5 star rating?

coates peice is awesome, just read it. but i won't fault caramanica simply for liking the album (i like it too). he's right about the tedium of willed consensus and especially about the odd institutional unwillingness to fairly evaluate a "moment-defining" record that obviously has at least as many weaknesses as strengths.

he said it reminds him of "Scenario," not that he cosiders it an homage. in fact sometimes I wonder if Nicki quoted Busta on that song because of how often she got compared to him after "Monster."

― hann am0n tana (some dude), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 9:42 AM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark

huh! I haven't been following nicki's coverage/ I don't even OWN a TV so I didn't realize this was a point of ref for Nicki. makes sense I guess

personally, i think it's great to have critics rally around one record like this. I didn't think we'd ever see that happen again, tbh

i mean, i dont think he didnt make some good pts in there -- it just feels like a weird way of separating himself from the herd i guess

the NYT piece reads like a hastily commissioned piece: another sign-of-the-times essay. It equivocates whenever you expect him to say, "Fuck off, this is excellent."

personally, i think it's great to have critics rally around one record like this. I didn't think we'd ever see that happen again, tbh

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 10:14 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yeah but the point is this feels like a circling the wagons type move

i have no idea what that means

it is insane to me that something like the Atlantic can still exist with an obstuse blog header like "On White She-Devils" instead of google-bating "Is Kanye West Worth The Hype?" ish

haha spoken like the originator of hipster puppies

because im criticizing specific parts of their writing that i feel are inaccurate vs. his general distrust of, what, giving something a 5 star rating?

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Monday, January 3, 2011 9:11 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is really the key part, for me:

“My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy” may or may not have been the best album of 2010. Believe what you will. Either way it’s not even the best Kanye West album. So now what — turn it up to 11.0? Plead for extra credit? Develop a new ranking system?

i really just have a hard time believing that MBDTF is the favorite Kanye album of the majority of the people raving about it

That's what I mean about equivocation though. Writing a series of banal rhetorical questions is filling space.

caramanica's piece seems like a have-your-cake-&-eat-it-too kinda thing to me, i dunno. you get to diss pfork & rs while still playing it safe by voting for the record? walk the walk imo

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Monday, January 3, 2011 9:03 PM (20 minutes ago)

yeah this is what i was saying

i guess i just think his point would mean more coming from someone not complicit in the reaction
but then im also just rmde that his list also included deuces rmx, fab, drake & rick ross so

well i got shit for talking down the record putting it at #34 on my year-end list, and lex got shit for saying it was completely without merit. there's no right way to deny the mountain!

yeesh dude

i gave u shit for giving me shit, so now youre giving me shit

think this thru before we go any further

the bore went over the mountain to see what he could see...

lex got shit for saying something that i felt was obv inaccurate, which isnt really the same as 'finding it without merit'
i gave you shit for being hypocritical -- i got crap from you for saying it was bad but defending pieces that liked it / attacking lex's argument, then you wrote a big screed against it & ranked it on your best albums of the year list (which i didnt do) -- the only reason i objected to your TREATMENT OF THE MOUNTAIN was because u were being flagrantly hypocritical

i'm so sad I was off ilx the week we talked about what "the mountain" is, because i have no fuckin idea

deej will be happy to explain it to you

oh god you're missing some classic deej -- search this thread for "mountain" sometime

does he say "the mountain" more in here than he says "tunnel bangers" in other threads?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAhO4PS6HoY

http://www.unionofyouth.org/wp-content/uploads/gotellitmount1.jpg

personally, i think it's great to have critics rally around one record like this. I didn't think we'd ever see that happen again, tbh

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten)

not sure i buy this 100%. would you say the same thing if critics were rallying around, say, Eminem's Recovery in the same manner? or is it just that they're repping for an album you happen to also really like?

oh god you're missing some classic deej -- search this thread for "mountain" sometime

― hann am0n tana (some dude), Monday, January 3, 2011 8:54 PM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

some classic shipley faux naif too

'i dont understand what you mean! so confusing!'

its in front of your face

whiney it was a point about subjectivity & critical perspectives that al chose to read as 'total bullshit' because its easy for him to be condescending and smug

sorry about those not being actual quotes but its buried so deep in this thread at this point i dont feel like loading it all to quote him exactly but that was the gist of it