also yeesh jordan & whiney u dudes are overreacting what im saying is really not that controversial is it??
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 16:04 (thirteen years ago) link
top 50 albums by The Needle Drop (aka, one of YouTube's biggest music reviewing personalities)
http://www.theneedledrop.com/albumslist2010.jpg
― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 17:08 (thirteen years ago) link
oh sorry misread, why are you *rmde* at that?
for basically the reasons some dude mentions - it seemed like you were acting as if gangster were still the predominant idiom within rap music instead of one strain among many. i mean its cool if you think it *should be* but it seems clear to even a casual observer that it simply isnt & that while gangster rap may well be fairly popular its no longer culturally dominant (which goes so far beyond show attendance or album sales or downloads anyway) in the way that it seemed to be a decade and a half ago.
― Hyrule's (Lamp), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 17:21 (thirteen years ago) link
yah i think there has been *some change* -- what i was arguing itt was that the change has been overstated to a large degree, that gangster rap (trap rap / crack rap / whatever its being called) is still a musically potent scene & that sales numbers are a tip of the iceberd kind of deal. that the audience for that style is going to be more effected by internet DL's than starbucks-safe BOB type 'rap'.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 17:28 (thirteen years ago) link
gorillaz? for realz? in 2010? the blur dude? really? ???
(????)
― scott seward, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't think you're going to hear BOB in Starbucks until he gets Emmylou Harris to sing a hook.
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 17:32 (thirteen years ago) link
i would start fucking w/ BOB if he did that tbh
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 17:54 (thirteen years ago) link
afaik nonviolent drug offenses still impact an overwhelmingly huge number of black men & this is basically what 'gangster rap' is and has been about. yuppie rap fans trying to turn the genre into a 'post-gangster' 'art form' are imo basically doing the musical equivelent of destroying public housing, watching the poor scatter & then acting like anything has been 'fixed'
So there were non-violent drug offenses before Schoolly-D and NWA and Getto Boys, etc. but the rapping was different. Not to get all Bill Cosby, but it seems that once gangsta got started, it has gotten institutionalized lyric-wise over the years, although there are obviously differences (lyrically and musically and due to the internet, music-making computer tools, etc. and sociological changes due to welfare reform, recession, drug wars, etc.)
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 18:49 (thirteen years ago) link
im certainly not arguing that all gangster rap is original or whatever but i would contend that the vast majority of innovation in terms of rapping style came from this world w/ a few exceptions -- mf doom comes to mind. obvi a bunch of early 90s dudes -- guru (although he was pretty street rap-oriented) q tip de la etc.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 18:54 (thirteen years ago) link
this division between 'street rap' & not is pretty artificial too obviously
drake & wiz khalifa are the first stars who really seem to break w/ that in their music -- you can say wayne & jay-z did it first in the way their music's been received though too.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 18:55 (thirteen years ago) link
i do kind of wonder, tho, to what degree the internet's impact on the industry has prevented gangster rap from taking a central place in rap culture the way it did circa g-unit & earlier
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 18:56 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^^thinking aloud btw & not trying to state some thesis-on-rap here
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 18:57 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm hearing ya, skot...that album has been conspicuous in it presence in a huge majority of these list, and it has like four good songs in it tops...
i'll be fucking amazed if the only year-end list I readwith both Erykah Badu and The Fall in it is my own; must be something wrong with me...
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 19:29 (thirteen years ago) link
just that you like shitty music
― Hyrule's (Lamp), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 19:30 (thirteen years ago) link
thx 4 dat luv u
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 19:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Ha. Badu and the Fall are on my list too.
The Gorillaz are showing up more on Brit EOY lists, but some elsewhere as well. IMHO the album reads better on paper(special guests Bobby Womack, Mick Jones, Paul Simenon)than it sounds.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 29 December 2010 21:40 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah plus Lou Reed & MES-->perfect for the rock critic who never listens to the music s/he loves...
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 21:42 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean, Stylo still sounds good, but there's quite a bit of dead space on that album. A lot of the blurbs I've read tend to fixate on Snoop Dogg who only makes an appearance on the 2nd track; not a good sign.
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link
*a lot = maybe 2...
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 29 December 2010 21:52 (thirteen years ago) link
I do think I should add to what we were discussing above, that I think there's an element of self-fulfilling prophecy to the 'gangster rap is no longer big' thing anyway ... that its sales that drew so much attention to that phenomenon for so long anyway -- like do you think mainstream media would over 50 Cent if he hadnt been breaking sales records? so when media doesnt cover because they dont think there's a story there, as a mainstream phenomenon it ceases to exist anyway
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:46 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, just as an example, the youtube for yo gotti's biggest single this year has more than 3 million views & the one for the arcade fire from this year has 1.2 million.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:50 (thirteen years ago) link
(and im not even counting the 5 star bitch rmx cuz im guessing the nicki appearance distorted that but btw it has FIFTEEN MILLION views)
jesus christ can we stop "add[ing] to what we were discussing above" pleaaaaseee for the love of sanity (a foreign concept to deej/whiney i know)
― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:50 (thirteen years ago) link
how about you stop contributing bullshit
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:51 (thirteen years ago) link
i'll keep it pertinent to this thread
ilxor lecturing other people on quality control is like rolling stone lecturing other magazines on overrating rock albums made by 50 year olds
― a snooki and a killer (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:52 (thirteen years ago) link
take your own advice
Remove Bookmark from this Thread
― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:47 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
― a snooki and a killer (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:53 (thirteen years ago) link
low millions isn't really that big a number for youtube views at this point, tbh. and lol @ "bigger than the arcade fire" once again being the easy hurdle to fly every example over.
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:55 (thirteen years ago) link
do you think mainstream media would *cover* 50 Cent
that should read
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:55 (thirteen years ago) link
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:55 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
well i figured that the 'nabisco otm!' article about indie takeover here was a reasonable thing to be comparing it to.
compare gangster rap youtubes to whatever you want, al
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:57 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, was there any other reason you can think of that made this stuff a mainstream phenomena other than a bunch of suits in the media realizing that NWA was suddenly outselling tons of legacy artists?
okay, contributing to the thread, then... arcade fire live streamed a NY concert from MSG earlier this year, 3.7 M in one night --
"After the album dropped on August 3, the band teamed up with Vevo, YouTube and American Express to put on a live-streamed show at New York City’s Madison Square Garden. The stream attracted 3.7 million viewers, according to Google, and boasted a ton of interactive features [...]"
― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:58 (thirteen years ago) link
how can you compare a live concert promoted by credit card companies to youtube searches.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 00:59 (thirteen years ago) link
b/c 3.7 mil in one evening for a live stream is a really big number
and both are on youtube
― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:00 (thirteen years ago) link
like, how many viewers do you think a yo gotti live concert stream would pull in?
i dont know? i wonder how many the waka live streams have pulled in without credit card promotions
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i wonder how many the waka live streams have pulled in without credit card promotions as many fans as arcade fire
― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:03 (thirteen years ago) link
credit card companies are the only thing that draw more eyeballs than gangsta rap, everyone knows that
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:15 (thirteen years ago) link
corporate promotions do tend to increase something's visibility yesbut be smarmy for no reason if u want
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:26 (thirteen years ago) link
even the youtube comparison is kind of impressive for arcade fire. u wouldn't expect ppl to "consume" arcade fire thru youtube like u wld yo gotti, right?
― zvookster, Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:30 (thirteen years ago) link
why not?
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:33 (thirteen years ago) link
uh, all the reasons stated by you and others upthread about how social media and streaming sites represent a bigger piece of the pie for mixtape rappers than for AOR indie bands?
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i dont recall saying that about youtube but about illegal downloads / bootlegging & what audiences are likely to pay for CDs. just because someone pays for a CD doesnt mean they dont stream youtube when they're at work / dont feel like getting the cd
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:36 (thirteen years ago) link
like, the question isnt 'who is likely to stream' its 'who is likely to pay money for a musical product'
those are related but not inverted questions
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:37 (thirteen years ago) link
i guess? i mean the much-referenced datpiff streams music too, it's not all downloads.
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:48 (thirteen years ago) link
i think of a lot of modern rap as being more song-oriented where someone might just play the track(s) they like 10 times on youtube or whatever vs. a rock artist where you're only considered a 'fan' of the artist if you have the album and can name every song off it
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:49 (thirteen years ago) link
like it doesn't seem like a fluke that there aren't a lot of "check out this cool song i found on youtube" posts on ilx rock threads like the ones you fill the rap threads with
― hann am0n tana (some dude), Thursday, 30 December 2010 01:55 (thirteen years ago) link
you guys should check this out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXHuf5Oo3PY
― scott seward, Thursday, 30 December 2010 02:01 (thirteen years ago) link
so amazing.
hahaha well played scott
― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Thursday, 30 December 2010 02:06 (thirteen years ago) link