2010 Magazine's Albums Of The Year Thread For Posting Lists and Discussion

i think its fairly self-evident that gangster rap has been hard hit by downloading. there is no indie rock dat piff. dat piff is logging hundreds of thousands of downloads. this is wayyy way bigger than your street corner bootlegger

so... any new albums of the year lists we can talk about?

― Shakey Moe Szyslak (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:16 AM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this conversation is probably more interesting than whatever list is posted next

i mean whiney, gangster rap always had a weird relationship w/ crossover. but like ... master p never got to rap verses with mariah carey. neither did bun b. gucci hit that point by being hugely popular. soulja boy isnt selling a lot of albums but i bet you he has more mentions on world star hip hop than BoB does.

the crowds that these rappers you argue are 'more popular' are crossing over to are coldplay fans. people who still buy records. BoB, Lupe, Drake, Jay-z ... these guys are marketing to your average middle american pop fan

& i mean pop like, U2 audiences. not like, club going fans of 'big pimpin' who got that song up top 40

No, anything is more interesting than what you're talking about endlessly

and you're basing this on ...

and you're basing it on?

And you know, every time in the 90s someone like Trick Daddy or Mystikal became FAMOUS FAMOUS, it was after years of organic slow-grind. Which, yes, happens faster because of the internet, but still happens. And note the breakthrough internet-to-fame artists are like Drake, BoB, Wiz, Cudi, Nicki, etc. Gucci and Waka are in there too, but like gangsta exceptions that prove the soft-serve rule.

If anything the new No Limit/Cash Money hole of "popular gangsta ish that actually has sales" is all in grinding-in-their-own-world dudes like Tech N9ne and Joe Budden, who still crack iTunes charts all the live long day

there is no indie rock dat piff

http://www.daytrotter.com/ ???

deej is right but it's really the nature of the form right? there's no datpiff of indie rock, but there's also no need for it, because indie rock doesn't operate on the mixtape model the way that rap does

likewise, there aren't indie labels in rap anymore -- there's no no limit or cash money that is monetizing the distribution of a high volume of non-high level releases like there used to be? like, now everyone just floods the net. anything that is put up for sale has to go thru the 8 million hoops that is the major label system. there's no XL or beggars banquet or w/e that puts out cds for the love of it & is willing to operate w/ a thin profit margin

rappers are expected to do all that by themselves, pretty much -- then they get plucked by a major

If anything the new No Limit/Cash Money hole of "popular gangsta ish that actually has sales" is all in grinding-in-their-own-world dudes like Tech N9ne and Joe Budden, who still crack iTunes charts all the live long day

LOL @ the idea that joe budden is anywhere near as popular as tech n9ne.

dude, you really are disconnected here

I mean, I'll agree with J0rdan. deej and I are really just arguing over chicken vs egg

"and you're basing it on?"

the exact same argument ive repeated in this thread already?

"I'M BASING IT ON MY OWN ARGUMENT... WHAT?!"

i mean, im saying that this softbatch rap isnt actually as popular relative to gucci waka yo gotti soulja boy et al as it seems, that its overrepresented in album sales because the softbatch stuff is aiming at the market that still buys CDs, while the gangster/goon stuff is working thru the mixtape situation jordan described. that doesnt mean that the latter group dont sell CDs ... just that their sales have a huuuuge chunk taken out of them that softbatch dudes dont because theyre skipping that segment of the game entirely to worry about getting joe 12-CD the U2 / Coldplay / Kanye fan

"I'M BASING IT ON MY OWN ARGUMENT... WHAT?!"

― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:24 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes, an argument w/ stated explanations for my reasoning. you're basing the death of gangster rap (and the lol claim that joe budden is the cash money of 2010) on ... sales numbers, i assume?

like, it used to be c-murder could go platinum w/out trying to convince Train fans he was worthwhile. nowadays thats impossible.

we ruined another thread :(

i dunno this seemed like an important / interesting argument to me & is def more interesting than another list celebrating our love of janelle monae, kanye and arcade fire so

http://assets1.pitchforkmedia.com/images/original/51884.rub-stel2.jpg

i mean, think about it -- to use the cash money/no limit label, those were indie labels w/ a figurehead like baby/slim or master p that pretty much monetized the whole operation right? then eventually majors stepped in & got into business w/ them, but that was after a long history of DIY

there is none of that anymore -- think about brick squad -- there is '1017/brick squad records' but it's just an extended arm of warner bros -- if this was 1997 oj da juiceman could've put out an actual album for sale in stores already, because there would've been someone willingly bank rolling that -- right now, there is no way that asylum/warner bros is gonna do that unless somehow oj breaks another song onto the radio w/ no promo

yep

^^^otm.

if this was 1997, Frenchie would have two albums out before xmas

i mean 'flockaveli' is the perfect example -- that was a mixtape that asylum 'made' into an album once they saw the buzz that waka was building up w/ "o let's do it"/"hard in da paint" -- there was no plans for him to put out an album before that

im glad dudes are still making records tho. that wooh da kid album is fire
also whiney did you get the nht boyz yet. its got a bunch of old school throwback shit on it, but the rapping doesnt sound dated (lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYVnSJft7w4

not just this but interpolation of 'big mouth' as well

& asylum did nothing to help waka afaik aside from signing gucci

the flipside i think is that the "they make their money!" through shows argument actually works for rappers -- it doesn't pay for the spinto band or w/e to ditch around college towns for $10 a pop while everyone gets their records off what.cd cuz they gotta pay 5 guys & a crew & shit no one is gonna show up anyway

but if webbie shows up at a club in shreveport he's gonna get paid 20k and tons of ppl are gonna show up & he's gonna remain a rich dude even tho he soundscans at 1/5th of the arcade fire

the spinto band is a terrible example -- you should prob substitute Girls or something in there

a lot of the indie rap labels that did survive (Rhymesayers, Stones Throw, et al) def succeeded because they're working on that XL/Beggars aesthete/fetish tip.

Though Rap-A-Lot is still kicking, tho.

I def tried the nht boyz tape and wasn't feeling them so much. \O_o/

i wish i could find the quote where waka says that he doesn't give a shit about anything but three shows a week at 25k a pop

but if webbie shows up at a club in shreveport he's gonna get paid 20k and tons of ppl are gonna show up & he's gonna remain a rich dude even tho he soundscans at 1/5th of the arcade fire

― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:35 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

as long as he keeps up a steady stream of hot material (this also worked for gucci / waka / boosie --> think about how many variations on a similar template boosie's made in his career!)

'hot' there meaning, doesnt fall off, continues to connect w/ audience

& that is of course why all majors now try to strongarm artists into signing 360 deals, because they want to get a percentage of show money

cuz where else would warner make significant money off of waka? digital downloads of "no hands"?

Plus a lot of rappers don't have a fugazi complex and don't mind charging too much for a ticket. I can't even begin to tell you the amount of rap shows I missed in college because I wasn't gonna pay $30 to see Smilez And Southstar or whatev

artists in my last post should specifically read "rappers"

cuz where else would warner make significant money off of waka?

http://www.nodjzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/waka-mask.jpg

^^^hahahaa ... otm

deej's point about "connection" is important too tho cuz that's one thing the mixtape model does help w/ -- if you're a rapper you can work a regional circuit w/ no album out that anyone cares about (i.e. any boosie album after 'bad azz') because you can put out as much music as you want & maintain that connection so ppl will show up to see you play a club even if they're not gonna buy the album that the label puts out on dec 15

lol whiney

if it was 1997 young dro would've put out an album in each of the last two years instead of riding yung LA's fruity unicorn in the hopes that his label will put out an album

If young people are no longer buying albums, why do Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift each have two of the top 10 best-selling records of 2010? (I don't buy Taylor as a total anomaly.) Who's buying the hit Glee soundtracks, the Twilight soundtracks, the NOW compilations? Disney pop like Selena Gomez and Miley Cyrus still sells well, too, IIRC.

The way I've tried to interpret this is that this is either parents buying albums for their kids, or else kids who a) don't have their own computers or b) aren't allowed to download illegally, or c) are too young to figure it out. Which strikes me as a not-insubstantial population.

yeah i mean those all seem like reasonable explanations. not sure that argues against the idea that some genres / styles would be harder hit than others, having a distorting effect on the overall accuracy of charts

i mean the issue i have w/ whiney's argument is that it feels like an attempt to marginalize rap's primary performers, to reorient the genre around a bunch of inoffensive performers who dont care about rapping any more & just worry about which fake chris martin will best help them sell their next single.

Anyway, back to the "poster's wives" theme - http://batgirlbob.tumblr.com/post/2401975659/albums-of-the-year

Thats a good list. Glad to see some love for Warpaint and the Jenny & Johnny record.

"The way I've tried to interpret this is that this is either parents buying albums for their kids, or else kids who a) don't have their own computers or b) aren't allowed to download illegally, or c) are too young to figure it out. Which strikes me as a not-insubstantial population."

rilly probably just millions of bored kids with their momz shopping at walmart or the mall and momz buys them a cd to get them to shut up about how bored they are. and CDs are like five bucks on sale next to the register with the gum and copies of us weekly.

Anyway, back to the "poster's wives" theme - http://batgirlbob.tumblr.com/post/2401975659/albums-of-the-year

good on her! more good records than dull, which is more than we can say for a lot of these lists

Whiney/deej/J0rdan back and forth i skimmed is the most interesting thing on this thread

so so rong

ilxor just wants to sit here and read the lists of everyone's spouses

Yeah but this is not the "Is Soulja Boy more popular than his dire Soundscan figure indicate?" thread.

And BTW my spouse's favorite 2010 album is the Crazy Heart OST.

figures

Yeah but this is not the "Is Soulja Boy more popular than his dire Soundscan figure indicate?" thread.

you're right, it was a discussion that really interfered with all of the magazine end of year lists that have been posted in the last 48 hours

rilly probably just millions of bored kids with their momz shopping at walmart or the mall and momz buys them a cd to get them to shut up about how bored they are. and CDs are like five bucks on sale next to the register with the gum and copies of us weekly.

― scott seward, Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:53 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

may also be that some populations of young listeners are themselves more likely to buy CD than download music for free through whatever channels. lot of factors could figure in: wealth, culture, personal taste, etc.