― Trevor, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
London alternative: move to Brighton instead. The glut of demi-trendy
breeder-tendency kidult bourgie bohos MUST BE SEEN TO BE BELIEVED.
― suzy, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Eh? This is hard to get. But I *think* you're saying: people
shouldn't move to the inner city, then leave again. Why the hell not?
Who are you to tell them what do to with their lives, for goodness'
― the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― David Inglesfield, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― bnw, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Kerry, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
points: safe and suitable for walking, biking, and going on
vacation without locking the doorstrees and grassproximity to
stores and other people
Bad points:Not enough wilderness to be
really gorgeouslack of cultural events (school concerts are about
And worst of all, NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. There is a lovely
fun job I was offered today and I can't take it. Why not? Because the
rest of my family has places to go and we do not have multiple cars
or a goddamn BUS to get me there. I am really, really upset about
this. The only place I can work anytime soon is the grocery store.
― Lyra, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
I grew up in a suburb (bordering city) which was multicultural and
filled to the brim with Jewish intellectuals and faculty brats. You
only went private if from out of town and/or you suffered from
behavioural problems. 20/20 hindsight tells me it was great, but this
was the exception.
Still, I moved to NYC and then to London at first available chance.
― anthony, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Nude Spock, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
I HAVE WONDERED WHAT A CITY BABY WOULD BE LIKE?!?!?! City babies I met in college seemed well - adjusted though a
bit boozy and promiscuous.
― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Sean, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Bill, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
What all this says is that a lot of people in South Essex and North
Kent - Richard Littlejohn country, the cliches are rooted in truth
I'm afraid - are consciously reacting to the multiculturalism of the
city from which they garner their wealth, and react by creating a
kind of aggressive white English state, a recreation of an imagined
monocultural outer London. And of course it's infinitely nastier and
pettier than those London suburbs ever were. London actually felt no
closer from there than it feels from South Dorset, which is a curious
state of affairs.
However I know other suburbs are nicer and more civilised places: the
parts of south-west London straddling the Thames (from blue to yellow
in one glorious thrust in '97) seem lovely to me. Colindale is OK.
Does Brighton count as a suburb of the "extended city of London" (cf
Hywel Williams in the Guardian late last year). If so, it's GRATE.
― Robin Carmody, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
I think that, broadly speaking, Robin's right - at least in terms of
voting habits etc of suburbs east of London and those of the suburbs
south-west of London.
I think (hope) that most of the NF activity was just a couple of nuts
rather than typical of the people where I live. The stickering was
quite frenzied (about 50 suddenly appeared over night covering
Worcester Park station. I actually know for a fact that there is/was
at least one active NF member who lived near me (I remember seeing a
picture of him at an NF rally in Searchlight and thinking "Blimey -
he went to the same school as me"). The NF opened an office in Epsom
but despite me living quite near Epsom, I have NO IDEA what it's like
(why would anyone get a train in THAT direction?).
Other scary far-right things that happened in my lovely south-west
Crazed nut phoned police after Brick Lane nailbomb claiming
responsibility (Edward Davey MP said the phone box should
Asian guy attacked by ten drunken yobs a few weeks ago in violent
On a more positive note, New Malden has something like the highest
concentration of Koreans outside Korea in the world. I'm not sure
why they love New Malden so much - it's not that good.
― jamesmichaelward, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― DG, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
since moving to a semi-urban area (St Louis), i enjoy it a lot less.
i'm hoping to move to NYC in about 2 or 3 years, and hopefully i'll
enjoy that more. i think the main problem w/ St Louis is the lack of
ANY type of worthwhile "scene", but that seems to be a whole new
thread topic. i simply moved to the part of the city i liked best,
and i'm a lot happier now.
while suburbans can be snobs, driving around in giant Sport Utility
Vehicles and partaking in Lawn Wars, fighting over who has the bigger
status symbol, most teenagers who complain about suburban life tend
to be boring individuals inthe first place, no matter what setting
you place them in. it's all about making the best of what you're
― mike j, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
The areas I had in mind are, I guess, further from central London
than the area where you live.
I have however always been struck by how much nastier and more
aggressive Toryism is when it's actually facing multiculturalism in
the face than when it's at a relative distance. So only very
recently have West Country Tory MPs become quite as nasty as the
south-east mob (Oliver Letwin and Adrian Flook are obviously far more
right-wing and far easier to hate instantly than Sir James Spicer and
Edward Du Cann were).
However all the points you make are true, and I only had a minority
(albeit a particularly aggressive and vicious one) in mind. I just
found it curious that the biggest Tory revival in terms of
Westminster seats was in East London / Essex (rather than in the
outer shires as had been generally expected) and was throwing a few
thoughts, perhaps overt generalisations, around.
― Robin Carmody, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Geoff, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― DG, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― dave q, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― matthew james, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 2 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Of course, when I'm thinking of "suburbs" I'm thinking of places
where all the houses look exactly the same -- Levittown-style
stuff, where people give the streets fancy names to hide the fact
that they live in an utter and total corporate contrivance. But not
all towns near to cities are like that, of course, and it is not for
those that my withering stare is intended...
― Phil, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― travis bickle, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Robin Carmody, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Ally, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
My mom, as always, is an excellent example. Before she got married,
she was a woman so steeped in Italo-American Catholicism that she
sincerely thought she'd get struck by lightning if she committed one
measly sin. Moving twenty miles away from her parents, her family and
neighborhood allowed her some breathing space to silently question the
dogma she grew up with. Ten years later, she stopped going to church,
took birth control pills and started to think about divorce. I bet
something analogous is probably occurring right now to all the new
Indian and Asian immigrants (and their families) who now call Long
I have no problem with non-urban living, but the slavish attentions
suburbanites have paid to the dubious convenience of the automobile
have made humane suburban living well-nigh impossible. None of the
Long Island towns that essentially did not exist before William Levitt
are as anywhere near as lovely or even useful as the ones whose
layout show little influence of the automobile, such as Babylon,
Islip, Port Jefferson, Sayville, Montauk, Garden City or the Hamptons.
― Michael Daddino, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Kris, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― ethan, Tuesday, 4 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 04:36 (13 years ago) Permalink
I want to believe.
― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 05:06 (12 years ago) Permalink
Where I live is in the official city limits. I need only walk a couple of blocks in one direction before I hit a major, well-traveled thoroughfare, and a few blocks in another direction before I hit a highway. Therefore, one could consider my neighborhood an "urban" one. Yet, all of the residences on my street have large front and back yards, are houses, are pet-friendly, and are largely quiet and separate entities from one another. Plus, we've spotted deer and peacocks around the area and have even had a deer come into our back yard. Therefore, one could also classify my neighborhood a "suburban" one. To complicate matters further, the actual suburbs that border San Antonio were largely rural towns in the not-too-distant past and do still sometimes have that countrified feel to them.
Maybe it's because I live in an area with a lot of growing pains and a heck of a lot of space to move around in (the city as of 2000 had an area of 333 square miles and it just keeps on growing outward). Approximately 50 years ago, the neighborhood I live in now was largely rural itself. But then the hospitals came, and the home builders decided to construct neighborhoods, and demand for housing in the area skyrocketed, and things just snowballed from there.
Hm. How fascinating do you guys find me? Maybe not at all, maybe somewhat, maybe very -- I have no clue. I would like to think I'm an interesting person who is worth getting to know, and I am a product of an environment that is a mixture of "urban" and "suburban", not to mention one that is purely driver-friendly (which is the case for the whole of the city, really). I drive a (small) SUV (a Chevy Blazer, a model of vehicle which existed L-O-N-G before the term "SUV" came into being), was educated on how to drive starting at 17, got my driver's license at 19, have never lived in an apartment before in her life, like gardening, love dogs, and sometimes harbor fantasies of living in London (where some of my fondest life memories took place).
Just stuff to think about, 'tis all.
― Innocent Dreamer (Dee the Lurker), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 23:23 (12 years ago) Permalink
Case in point:By the way that's not my house.
― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:04 (12 years ago) Permalink
I haven't been there in just over ten years.
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 26 June 2003 01:35 (12 years ago) Permalink
This is outside of saint louis. The 'Laumier Park' mentioned is a sculpture park.
― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 10:39 (9 years ago) Permalink
I live on an old city street, but we have old, grand bungalos built in the 20s. And some stupid asshole "custom builder" just put up a travesty in an empty lot a few houses down from us. It's a big fucking garage, with 5 bedrooms and a greatroom. Stupid fucks. It doesn't match the neighborhood at all...
― DAVE, for #1 Hits of yesterday and today! (dave225.3), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 10:57 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 10:58 (9 years ago) Permalink
― sometimes it takes an earthquake to know where the fault lies (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 11:37 (9 years ago) Permalink
― DAVE, for #1 Hits of yesterday and today! (dave225.3), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 11:41 (9 years ago) Permalink
― sometimes it takes an earthquake to know where the fault lies (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 11:44 (9 years ago) Permalink
Legacy Village- east side
― laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 12:11 (9 years ago) Permalink
― laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 12:14 (9 years ago) Permalink
― DAVE, for #1 Hits of yesterday and today! (dave225.3), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 12:18 (9 years ago) Permalink
It would be nice if there were buyers out there who were actually interested in building homes like that instead of the ugly, elbows-to-assholes mcmansions that are invading the suburban countryside and gentrification projects around the country.
― don weiner (don weiner), Tuesday, 6 June 2006 12:30 (9 years ago) Permalink
one problem with that article is it is doing percentiles nationwide. so a whole areas can go up or down in avg income (witness north dakota). in that sense its not only a mobility story, but a story of which regions have been doing well or poorly, and the two notions get mashed together. also not clear how they inflation adjust, etc. can't drill in more to the details, because the website is down :-(
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Monday, 22 July 2013 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Pretty crazy that in some of those North Dakota regions there's like a 20-30% chance that a child born in the bottom fifth rose to the top fifth. Just shows how powerful the oil boom is.
― Cap'n Conserv-a-pedia (Hurting 2), Monday, 22 July 2013 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
remember that's not top fifth north dakota -- that's top fifth nationwide. so just everyone in ND is better off than before -- not an indicator of relative mobility in ND.
sites back up for me, skimmed the data, they don't seem to have put any thought into the sort of things i'm worried about -- no story on inflation adjustment, etc.
also as far as i can tell they're not comparing kids at _their parents age at time of survey_ with the incomes of their parents. so that's why you get this "everything towards the middle" effect. like obv income should grow over time. but because their cohort were born '80-81 they're all 33 or so now. if their parents income is from when their parents were e.g. 40 then at least for some classes of jobs, even if they were exactly in their parents footsteps, they would be making less b/c they're younger. for other classes of jobs you're going to top out in earnings earlier. so that's another confounding factor that makes this data v. up for interpretation
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Monday, 22 July 2013 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Mordy , Monday, 5 August 2013 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hey, found a no-car, pedestrian neighborhood away from the city for iatee.
― pplains, Monday, 25 November 2013 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Wednesday, 27 November 2013 03:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Moving from the US coasts to inland cities & burbs (and finding jobs presumably)
Oklahoma City, for example, has outpaced most other cities in growth since 2011, becoming the 12th-fastest-growing city last year. It has also won over a coveted demographic, young adults age 25 to 34, going from a net loss of millennials to a net gain. Other affordable cities that have jumped in the growth rankings include several in Texas, including El Paso and San Antonio, as well as Columbus, Ohio, and Little Rock, Ark.
Newcomers in Oklahoma City have traded traffic jams and preschool waiting lists for master suites the size of their old apartments. The sons of Lorin Olson, a stem cell biologist who moved here from New York’s Upper East Side, now ride bikes in their suburban neighborhood and go home to a four-bedroom house. Hector Lopez, a caricature artist, lives in a loft apartment here for less than he paid to stay in a garage near Los Angeles. Tony Trammell, one of a group of about a dozen friends to make the move from San Diego, paid $260,000 for his 3,300-square-foot home in a nearby suburb.
“This is the opposite of the gold rush,” Mr. Trammell said.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
The Oklahoma Laters.
― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
― ♪♫ teenage wasteman ♪♫ (goole), Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
feel like you'd have to keep a knife at my throat continuously to get me down there
My city's mentioned in that paragraph. Gotta say, the weather's nice, the costs are cheap, my morning commute is about 10-15 minutes.
The state's getting overrun by lunatics, but for someone who doesn't leave the house that often, it's not so bad. We city folk are pretty progressive when it comes right down to it.
― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
Now Ok-lol-homa on the other hand is a different story, imho.
― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm still kind of in awe of how much the downtown of my city has been revitalized. Maybe too much, some days.
― mh, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 20:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
Columbus, Ohio is kind of great. It's in no way a suburb though.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
seriously! why are they calling these small-to-midsize cities suburbs?
― marcos, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
anything that's not nyc or l.a. is a suburb, obviously.
― first is the worst (askance johnson), Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
Wait, what, who called Columbus a suburb?
Also this guy
Aasim Saleh, 30, moved to Oklahoma City from Seattle to coach kayaking in the city’s Boathouse District. The ability to buy a home without having a desk job was one major draw for him.
must really enjoy professional basketball.
― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
in america most cities are suburbs
― iatee, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
i'm definitely not "icky" fwiw
― markers, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
I just mean we're somehow talking about "moving to Columbus" in the "moving to the suburbs" thread
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 7 August 2014 04:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
Tony Trammell, one of a group of about a dozen friends to make the move from San Diego, paid $260,000 for his 3,300-square-foot home in a nearby suburb.
Unless your last name is Duggar or The Hutt, nobody needs a 3,300 sq. ft. house.
― Welcome to my spooooooky carnival! Hope I don't... blow your mind! (Phil D.), Thursday, 7 August 2014 09:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
Columbus, Ohio is kind of great. It's in no way a suburb though.
Over the last 50 years Columbus annexed all the unincorporated land in Franklin County (and even some in 3 adjoining counties) and in doing so became the largest city in Ohio in population and land area. Columbus has even made enclaves of several of their suburbs by completely surrounding them. Most of the population of Columbus resides in what the functionally a suburb.
― kate78, Thursday, 7 August 2014 21:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
*is functionally a suburb
This isn't a city. This is a stain left over after someone threw a tomato at a map of Ohio.
― pplains, Thursday, 7 August 2014 21:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
And don't forget Columbus' Congressional districts:
― pplains, Thursday, 7 August 2014 21:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
Not classy or icky. Maybe some are dudes. Most of all, I think, they are enthusiasts. I may be imagining that American suburbs are equivalent to the normal populace in smaller countries such as Belgium or France or Korea where young people can get caught up in things and older people go bowling. But listening to Seamonsters and remembering Steve Albini, I can't help wondering what happened to the Smashing Pumpkins when everybody still loves the Wedding Present. (Oh, I thought he produced one of their albums, but it appears that he merely criticized them. Then which top nineties album did he produce (other than Seamonsters)?)
― youn, Thursday, 7 August 2014 23:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think of Columbus as a small city because it is gritty at the core. (Maybe I am not properly recognizing the surrounding areas that are really a part of it. The Twenty-Seventh City by Franzen may be relevant. But, yes, the people still seemed suburban in their preoccupations ... )
― youn, Friday, 8 August 2014 00:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
That Warstler guy is an idiot. He's a regular commenter on Scott Sumner's blog, where I quickly learned to ignore him.
― o. nate, Tuesday, March 6, 2012 1:42 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
stories i came across recently of interest to almost nobody:
"megalomaniac twitter troll runs scammy non-company with ties to rick perry"
(funny he was discussed here 3 years ago. lol yglesias)
― goole, Tuesday, 23 February 2016 23:55 (3 months ago) Permalink