Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

i mean as in, 'lol sparring' or 'how wrongheaded'?

^progress

lol sparring feels like it has meme potential

i am a meme machine

i am a me me machine

― *plop*ism rules (deej), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:51 PM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

speaking of me-me machines, something that just occurred to me: in light of discussions about egotism/solipsism/etc, what's the significance of kanye literally not getting the 'last word' on his own album?

slightly desperate, transparent grab at giving the album a "larger significance" imo

whiney that is a beef neither of us will win

ive won all the other natch so it would be my only draw, just sayin

the last thing he raps is:

"Let's break out of this fake-ass party
Turn this into a classic night <<<<< nice sentiment, p.good line imo
If we die in each other's arms
Still get laid in that afterlife" <<<<< not so sure abt this one, mainly cuz it doesn't make sense

followed by a repetition of the chorus, now with the added "run from the lights / run from the night / run for your life" part that's always sorta reminded me of the Arcade Fire. and then Kanye slips into the background while Gil-Scott Heron takes the mic.

slightly desperate, transparent grab at giving the album a "larger significance" imo is probably otm — thing is, it actually sorta works for me! sonically/musically, I mean. I would listen to an album of Gil's raps set to Kanye's beats.

i mean as in, 'lol sparring' or 'how wrongheaded'?

― *plop*ism rules (deej), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:47 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

neither, it's not so much inherently funny as that you sold the whole 'mountain' thing for like 3 posts in a row before people finally went "uh we don't get it but ok dude"

"getting laid in the afterlife" is pretty funny, i want to like this album more now that i know that's the last line

i dont know how you 'couldnt get it' its rather straightforward

^progress

― k3vin k., Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:48 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

apparently not, bcuz al was genuinely calling me an idiot

i was calling you an idiot? jeez don't be so dramatic dude

i'm not saying the mountain thing is hard to understand, you just sold it as SUCH a perfect way to look at things and nobody seemed to really get on board with it

the impression im getting is that al wants to will this album to be not-a-big-deal & the historical comparisons make so little sense. was imperial bedroom really a hugely successful pop phenomenon? did it even sell as many copies then as this record did in a worse climate for record sales? this is what i mean by a 'mountain' -- this record is a big deal to a lot of people & is thereby 'important' -- you cant just will it not to be by setting your disappointment with his execution up against that

xposts re: "get laid in the afterlife" —

there's a weird suicide/death theme running through the album — the "standing on the edge" part from "Gorgeous" that I mentioned upthread, the MJ references (right before those last lines from "Lost in the World", he does the mamasay-mamasa-whateverwhatever part from that one song, then says "Lost in this plastic life" which obviously resonates with the figure of Jackson in interesting ways) — maybe Kanye really is a teenager at heart and his beautiful dark twisted fantasy is "I'm gonna die and you'll all be rly sad"

the coda to power too, of course

i'm not saying the mountain thing is hard to understand, you just sold it as SUCH a perfect way to look at things and nobody seemed to really get on board with it

― some dude, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:11 PM (40 seconds ago) Bookmark

its certainly a better line of thought than the linear progress narrative most music writing still latches on to. if you have a problem with it then call me out on it instead of being passive aggressive & zingy 200 posts later

xpost ah yeah, knew I was missing something

what was the mountain thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO76M2MRCFw

no seward

the impression im getting is that al wants to will this album to be not-a-big-deal & the historical comparisons make so little sense. was imperial bedroom really a hugely successful pop phenomenon? did it even sell as many copies then as this record did in a worse climate for record sales? this is what i mean by a 'mountain' -- this record is a big deal to a lot of people & is thereby 'important' -- you cant just will it not to be by setting your disappointment with his execution up against that

― *plop*ism rules (deej), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 3:11 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'm sorry you thinking i'm DENYING THE MOUNTAIN. i know it's a big deal! i'm just truly honestly not sure it's that much bigger a deal than Late Registration. if you think that makes me seem stubborn it's ok dude.

acting like the Imperial Bedroom comparison has to make sense on every single level to hold weight is like saying "does this album have a 5 mile high elevation? is it covered in rocks? then it's NOT A MOUNTAIN"

stop denying the mountain

srsly just cut it out, it's right there, being a mountain

i mean it's possible the next decade will suck eggs so bad that this album will skate into the canon as the best album of 2010-2019 -- i just hope it doesn't, i'm rooting for Kanye and humanity in general to aim higher

maybe Kanye really is a teenager at heart and his beautiful dark twisted fantasy is "I'm gonna die and you'll all be rly sad"

Ha ha, yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8utgCo86lpo

(Apologies if posted this last time deej brought up his mountain analogy.)

Kanye said in a bunch of interviews that he was suicidal in the run-up to releasing this album so that all makes sense.

Also, to go back to the frankly stupid "but 'Runaway' is a celebration!' nonsense, this is the only interview I can find where he really talks about the lyrics to "Runaway":

http://www.accesshollywood.com/kanye-west-talks-runaway-inspiration-and-his-connection-to-the-people_article_38664

Kanye said the cut, which features lyrics like, “Let’s have a toast for the douchebags…” and “I don’t know how I’d manage if you’d up and leave,” is inspired by a lot of things.

“In a way, it’s funny… it’s like… the song sounds like it’s talking about a girl — could also be talking about my relationship with society or my relationship with the fans or anyone who I let down or people who had to defend me that really love me,” he said. “I like leaving songs ambiguous a little bit, where it’s like, it could be about other people, It could be about yourself. It’s funny — it’s like a man’s anthem, but it’s a woman’s anthem. Like, ‘Let’s have a toast with a douchebag!’”

It still feels to me like a fundamental misunderstanding of what Kanye is saying in the song to say that line is celebratory and not sarcastic, especially when combined with some of the things he said in connection with the film:

http://rapradar.com/2010/09/14/kanye-west-explains-runaway-concept/

“I’m color-correcting this film I shot in Prague a couple weeks ago. I want to edit the film on a boat. Where are the good editing boats?” — is called Runaway, and is a 40-minute noir piece based on his new album. “It’s the story of a phoenix fallen to Earth, and I make her my girlfriend, and people discriminate against her and eventually she has to burn herself alive and go back to her world,” he told us. “I’ve been feeling the idea of the phoenix. It’s been in my heart for a while. It’s maybe parallel to my career. I threw a Molotov cocktail on my career last year, in a way, and I had to come back as a better person.”

acting like the Imperial Bedroom comparison has to make sense on every single level to hold weight is like saying "does this album have a 5 mile high elevation? is it covered in rocks? then it's NOT A MOUNTAIN"

― some dude, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:16 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no because sales & popularity are directly related to influence?

what the hell is the mountain

HAPPY 4,000th POST!

"this hill is not the same size as this mountain -- ergo they are not comparable"

now we're arguing about whether the album is/will be influential? when did that happen?

stop denying the mountain

― kanellos (gbx), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:17 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

when did u start bagging on me all the time

now we're arguing about whether the album is/will be influential? when did that happen?

― some dude, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:26 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

sorry, 'important' -- same effin deal

the impression im getting is that al wants to will this album to be not-a-big-deal & the historical comparisons make so little sense. was imperial bedroom really a hugely successful pop phenomenon?

kanye isn't competing against elvis costello's sales, but his own. His first three albums all sold about 2-3 million copies, so unless this album takes him to a whole new tier of success - which there's no evidence that it will - MBDTF could easily seem "not-a-big-deal" compared to Dropout and Registration, just as Imperial seems not-a-big-deal critically compared to My Aim is True and This Years Model now.

haha, what? i've disagreed with you in like....three threads in the last month. and the mountain thing is funny, relax

i think that critical canonization is the kind of thing that trickles down at this level, tho -- joe 15 CD-owner will look back on this record as a 'classic'

haha, what? i've disagreed with you in like....three threads in the last month. and the mountain thing is funny, relax

― kanellos (gbx), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:28 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the mountain thing is funny, yeah, but al is using it as a way of prying at my arguments w/ him in this thread & it gives the impression of a pile-on against my argument instead of simple lols

i mean i straight up asked him if he was just being all lol sparring & he said no

joe 15 CD-owner will look back on this record as a 'classic'

well he only has 15 cds

not saying this is A CONSPIRACY bfore yall start in on the paranoia ish again

all i'm saying is this album's "importance" feels like a foregone conclusion. if someone told you in January that Kanye would have the most acclaimed album of the year it wouldn't be any kind of surprise. why even discuss that as a virtue unto itself?

the arcade fire album had a song called "mountains beyond mountains". or maybe that was just the hook, and the song was called something else. but anyway, it was clearly the best song on the album, which sold decently well, and is thus at least doubly (possibly trebly?) mountainous

i mean joe 15 probably has College Dropout, sure, i'm just not 100% sure this one's on his Xmas list.

i pop into this thread like every hundred posts, at this point i'm not keeping tabs on who is actually arguing with who, or about what

well he only has 15 cds

― da croupier, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:29 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

kanye is point blank a bigger pop star now than he was when his 2nd lp was released. individual songs arent as popular (although monster aint doing bad) but hes a more known figure now

all i'm saying is this album's "importance" feels like a foregone conclusion. if someone told you in January that Kanye would have the most acclaimed album of the year it wouldn't be any kind of surprise. why even discuss that as a virtue unto itself?

― some dude, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:30 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont think its a virtue per se!