Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

man, I was in London the month Be Here Now dropped. For two weeks everyone I bumped into looked like Liam Gallagher.

wasn't that just pitchfork, though? i mean, i don't remember the whole world lining up to kiss its whole ass.

― Today, if he makes a grunge (contenderizer), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:33 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

that was my point.

actually, they put "your hard drive" at the top xpost

i don't think rock critics break up their albums like 12 year olds do

you wanna bet?

Hoobastank could just as easily have been an OutKast mixtape

― modrić in paradise (blueski), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 5:26 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

i can't think of any critics-united, "instant classic" albums that haven't held up over time, at least critically.

there are definitely late-in-the-game albums from critical megastars that drop in estimation in favor of earlier works. Imperial Bedroom, Sandinista! and Little Creatures all topped the pazz'n'jop poll, but wouldn't get across-the-board classic reviews today

Not late in the game but:

http://gearpatrol.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/arrested-development-3-years-5-months-2-days-in-the-life-of-album-cover.jpg

though the reviews almost suggest MBDTF is a zeitgeist fart like AD, I really think the overrating of a known commodity has more to do with it - sure people trumpeted the clash's clashness in their Sandinista raves.

also, I think Kanye succeeds here insofar as he crafts an album and makes people pay attention to it as an album (via not having obvious singles + framing the whole thing as some sort of referendum on the state of music/culture/Kanye's mind 2k10) in a non-album age — I'm thinking here of Fred Jameson talking about how some historical moments are more conducive than others to the 'totalizing' gesture of the realistic novel, but replace 'realistic novel' with 'long-playing record' — obviously I'm not gonna claim that Kanye is "saving the album", or that he would really care whether he is or not; but he's trying to get people to pay attention to his album any way he can (Good Friday leaks, all-access Twitterrhea, expensively pretty 'high-art' music videos, etc), and it more or less worked.

(cf. the 4000-post thread I am posting in)

guess we should be glad it wasn't 3 CDs long

next year in music headlines: Kanye West announces "life trade" with Sufjan Stevens; preps California Dreamin' for August release

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: Kanye West on American history, space travel, the pressures of fame, and what it's like to record Katy Perry playing a trumpet

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: John Mayer on American history, space travel, the pressures of fame, and what it's like to play Katy Perry like a trumpet

i like the way this post has nothing to do with anything, so typically whiney

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:23 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

^^this killed me

i'm sympathetic to al's argument about how this will be seen in 20 years or w/e but unfortunately i can't really buy it -- i feel like critics have set up the narrative where, like, this right now is seen as the pinnacle of kanye's career artistically (ridiculous notion, but w/e)

honestly i think the arguments that al is making about this record will apply to late registration

like in terms of a glossed over album i think the legacies of the albums will be (not that i think this is right but):

- college dropout: made a name for himself
- late registration: solidified himself as a pop star with his biggest single ever
- graduation: beefed with 50, won the sales battle
(now we get into the 'now he became a force as a capital a Artist' period)
- 808s: a divisive "artistic" record, i think what will be the legacy of this one is already pretty clear
- twisted fantasy: the magnum opus, art-rap spectacular, talents fully realized as he makes a great capital a Album

again, i think most of that is largely BS, but i think that's how it will play out

yeah maybe you're right. to me croup's Imperial Bedroom/Little Creatures parallel just makes more sense to me but who knows really.

yeah -- i don't know enough about costello to analyze that comparison

my beautiful dark twisted future fantasy, re: MBDTF's critical reappraisal, involves people changing their tune to "oh, it wasn't that bad after all, was it? in fact, it was pretty darn good.", or some such, actually. but that's just me. \m/ ^_^ \m/

all you need to know if that Costello's first 2-3 albums are total classics and his undeniable career peak and it's been diminishing returns since then but there were a few years that critics were in denial and sent lesser albums to the top of P&J

first paragraph of imperial bedroom review in RS: After years of furious parrying with his obsessions in a long ride that's taken him from arsenic tinged punk psychodramas to gin-mill country & western weepers, Elvis Costello has made his masterpiece.

Pretty sure every RS record guide since has given its highest ratings to his first two albums.

lol, i mean first sentence. and here's the last bit: In every aspect of this masterfully wrought, conceptually audacious project, he's managed to bulwark his emotional directness with vision and clarity — and to make an album that lingers and haunts long after the last note has died out. Like a long, episodic novel — or a long, episodic relationship — you can look back when it's over and measure how far you've traveled.

if only there was a 'mountain' reference to tie it into deej's topographical crit obsession too haha

there's really no "critical narrative" that can't be re-written

diff being that IB was a bore then and remains a bore now.

if only there was a 'mountain' reference to tie it into deej's topographical crit obsession too haha

― some dude, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:30 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ha ok dude -- when this is seen as kanye's imperial bedroom you can claim your $5 *rmde*

It kind of has that early-part-of-the-decade masterwork vibe like London Calling or Kid A where it's gonna sit around for 9 years and fester until crits just sort of agree its the best of the decade.

Crazy talk. Sandinista comparison much closer to the mark.

(I like Imperial Bedroom)

that wasn't a boast or a wager about how right i am, i jut like making fun of your mountain analogy

why

i mean as in, 'lol sparring' or 'how wrongheaded'?

^progress

lol sparring feels like it has meme potential

i am a meme machine

i am a me me machine

― *plop*ism rules (deej), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:51 PM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

speaking of me-me machines, something that just occurred to me: in light of discussions about egotism/solipsism/etc, what's the significance of kanye literally not getting the 'last word' on his own album?

slightly desperate, transparent grab at giving the album a "larger significance" imo

whiney that is a beef neither of us will win

ive won all the other natch so it would be my only draw, just sayin

the last thing he raps is:

"Let's break out of this fake-ass party
Turn this into a classic night <<<<< nice sentiment, p.good line imo
If we die in each other's arms
Still get laid in that afterlife" <<<<< not so sure abt this one, mainly cuz it doesn't make sense

followed by a repetition of the chorus, now with the added "run from the lights / run from the night / run for your life" part that's always sorta reminded me of the Arcade Fire. and then Kanye slips into the background while Gil-Scott Heron takes the mic.

slightly desperate, transparent grab at giving the album a "larger significance" imo is probably otm — thing is, it actually sorta works for me! sonically/musically, I mean. I would listen to an album of Gil's raps set to Kanye's beats.

i mean as in, 'lol sparring' or 'how wrongheaded'?

― *plop*ism rules (deej), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:47 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

neither, it's not so much inherently funny as that you sold the whole 'mountain' thing for like 3 posts in a row before people finally went "uh we don't get it but ok dude"

"getting laid in the afterlife" is pretty funny, i want to like this album more now that i know that's the last line

i dont know how you 'couldnt get it' its rather straightforward

^progress

― k3vin k., Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:48 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

apparently not, bcuz al was genuinely calling me an idiot

i was calling you an idiot? jeez don't be so dramatic dude

i'm not saying the mountain thing is hard to understand, you just sold it as SUCH a perfect way to look at things and nobody seemed to really get on board with it

the impression im getting is that al wants to will this album to be not-a-big-deal & the historical comparisons make so little sense. was imperial bedroom really a hugely successful pop phenomenon? did it even sell as many copies then as this record did in a worse climate for record sales? this is what i mean by a 'mountain' -- this record is a big deal to a lot of people & is thereby 'important' -- you cant just will it not to be by setting your disappointment with his execution up against that

xposts re: "get laid in the afterlife" —

there's a weird suicide/death theme running through the album — the "standing on the edge" part from "Gorgeous" that I mentioned upthread, the MJ references (right before those last lines from "Lost in the World", he does the mamasay-mamasa-whateverwhatever part from that one song, then says "Lost in this plastic life" which obviously resonates with the figure of Jackson in interesting ways) — maybe Kanye really is a teenager at heart and his beautiful dark twisted fantasy is "I'm gonna die and you'll all be rly sad"