Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

maybe critical praise suffers from inflation like box office receipts, and MBDTF is just the Avatar that SEEMS momentarily bigger than E.T. or whatever.

Like the only want MBDTF is going to get "lost to the sands of time" is if he totally tops himself next time out with something bolder, grander, bigger, proggier—and its ALSO a huge critical success. Whether that will happen is anyone's guess. If he drops the ball or makes 909s and Heartbreak then, yeah, we're gonna be hearing about this album for a long time.

It kind of has that early-part-of-the-decade masterwork vibe like London Calling or Kid A where it's gonna sit around for 9 years and fester until crits just sort of agree its the best of the decade.

Unless he tops himself

i could def see this ending up getting talked about as the equiv of oasis's be here now

some dude, why can't you accept that Kanye might have two classic records?

I can see this dropping out of the discourse as just his 'lol what was everyone thinking' record like be here now. exactly like be here now actually.

kanye has two classic records: dropout and lr

^^

lol Whiney, do you mean "does something better" or "kills himself"

xp: but the thing is, becoming a "what was everyone thinking" album KEEPS IT IN THE DISCOURSE

like when LR dropped i was like "i feel boring putting this at #1 again but he deserves it so OK". i'm not changing my tune now just because i want my year-end list to be more unpredictable.

meddle > dark side > the wall

(i think this is the second time i've mentioned meddle in this thread which is probably significant in some way i can't fully understand)

i also kind of feel it's silly to be proclaiming anything about an album's ~importance~ or how it's going to be seen 20 years hence, when we're not even a month removed from its release yet

yeah i don't think this is even truly divisive enough to be a "what was everyone thinking" album, considering that this thread seems like one of the only places on the internet where people are really arguing passionately about the pros and cons of this album. like i said, 808s might have a bigger role in the narrative of his career just by being more overtly divisive.

lex i'm sorry i brought up the "in 20 years" thing but i meant it more in a narrative sense than in a "you'll all agree with me IN THE FUTURE" kind of argument

808s should have a bigger role for being his best album but I already know few ppl agree with me

this thread seems like one of the only places on the internet where people are really arguing passionately about the pros and cons of this album

i do find it funny, given its reception elsewhere, that hardly anyone even on this thread actually thinks it's anything close to a 10/10 heartbreaking work of staggering genius

xp not directed specifically at you shipz - more at people who seem determined to canonise it already really

Unless he tops himself

― patti ayonnaise (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:04 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah i totally misunderstood this at first

i hereby bet that like 75% of the critics who gave this thing top marks will either be feeling silly or "remembering it differently" 5 years from now.

late registration deserved the praise it almost got. this deserves a raised eyebrow and a gentle 8.5 - and i actually like the damn thing.

so just to summarize, people who like this album think it'll be recognized as one of his classics, while people who don't like it think it'll be seen as a minor, overrated album

good job, people

lol

i hereby bet that like 75% of the critics who gave this thing top marks will either be feeling silly or "remembering it differently" 5 years from now.

yup. even if it gets considered as one of his best records, i think a lot of ppl that lost their shit for it are going to feel sheepish about the perfect ratings in time.

i think its a minor overrated album that will be seen as a classic :p

i hereby bet that like 75% of the critics who gave this thing top marks will either be feeling silly or "remembering it differently" 5 years from now.

nah. you can predict that sort of reevaluation with certain kinds of albums, but this one -- self-important, bloated, driven by huge ego -- is less susceptible to that. not to say that critics won't backlash against it 5 years from now, but not because the critics who praise it now feel "silly" about it 5 years from now.

yup. even if it gets considered as one of his best records, i think a lot of ppl that lost their shit for it are going to feel sheepish about the perfect ratings in time.

― kanellos (gbx), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:12 AM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i could see it becoming a 'flawed classic' but i think the classic-ness is kinda written in stone now

With the caveat that I don't think this is as good an album, how is this furor dissimilar from what happened with Kid A, which ppl still rate highly 10 years later?

(even though Hail To The Thief was way better)

yeah, everyone should get their personal opinions out the discussion, ffs. The critics at large have set up a narrative that this is nu-Kanye, bigger bolder concept-rap, Sgt Peppers Lonely 808s and Heart Club Brand ish. RS, P4k, Vibe, Spin are united like never before. Whether you like Late Registration more is so, so, so, so, beyond the fucking point regarding whether this album is going to be regarded as a "classic" or not

how is that different to the narrative critics set up around be here now at the time?

I think the critics who gave it perfect ratings are going to eventually feel silly about it and admit they overrated it, then later realize they were right initially, then hedge their bets a little and say it's "pretty good but not his best," then you'll see the backlash against the backlash and they'll call it an "unsung masterpiece," and then it'll be Friday.

because RS and Spin and Vibe and Pfork never called it album of the year?

how is that different to the narrative critics set up around be here now at the time?

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:16 AM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark S

for real???

With the caveat that I don't think this is as good an album, how is this furor dissimilar from what happened with Kid A, which ppl still rate highly 10 years later?

But Kid A got a lot of mediocre reviews and left more reviewers nonplussed. It certainly didn't the sort of blanket praise this album is getting, Pitchfork 10 notwithstanding. I think Kid A's rep has actually improved over a decade.

holy shit i just realized that kanye needs an Interior Life of thread

i hereby bet that like 75% of the critics who gave this thing top marks will either be feeling silly or "remembering it differently" 5 years from now.
nah. you can predict that sort of reevaluation with certain kinds of albums, but this one -- self-important, bloated, driven by huge ego -- is less susceptible to that. not to say that critics won't backlash against it 5 years from now, but not because the critics who praise it now feel "silly" about it 5 years from now.

― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, December 15, 2010 5:13 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark

The Interior Life of Noel Gallagher: A Speculative History

and then it'll be Friday.

― congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:16 AM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark

lololol

lol xp

Interior Life of Kanye would just be jacking his own Twitter feed surely?

because RS and Spin and Vibe and Pfork never called it album of the year?

― patti ayonnaise (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 5:17 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Be Here Now didn't come out a week before lists were made, people had time to get all rmde what was i thinking

Man, I remember in 1997 when Oasis was in the Macy's parade and was flying the Crystal Method to Hawaii and stealing awards from the New Radicals

I mean, I do live in America, where we don't put up with shit like the Darkness and Sugababes

funny that Kanye wanted to be MJ for this age but instead he's getting lumped with an 'Oasis of hip-hop' tag

I mean, I do live in America, where we don't put up with shit like the Darkness and Sugababes

i like the way this post has nothing to do with anything, so typically whiney

Man, I remember in 1997 when Oasis was in the Macy's parade and was flying the Crystal Method to Hawaii and stealing awards from the New Radicals

― patti ayonnaise (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:21 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

man that record COULDA been classic after all

I mean, I do live in America, where we don't put up with shit like the Darkness and Sugababes

You also have bands called things like "Hoobastank" though.

funny that Kanye wanted to be MJ for this age but instead he's getting lumped with an 'Oasis of hip-hop' tag

― modrić in paradise (blueski), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:22 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

i'm ok with this

I mean, I do live in America, where we don't put up with shit like the Darkness and Sugababes

― patti ayonnaise (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 5:22 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Yes because America doesn't have anything more shameful than a half decent girl group to put up with.

how is that different to the narrative critics set up around be here now at the time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Here_Now_%28album%29#Reception

Contemporaneous reviews of Be Here Now were, in John Harris's words, unanimous with "truly amazing praise." According to Harris, "To find an album that had attracted gushing notices in such profusion, one had to go back thirty years, to the release of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band."[31] While Q magazine described the album as "cocaine set to music", most early reviews praised the record's length, volume and ambition. Reviews in the British music press for Oasis' previous album (What's the Story) Morning Glory? had been generally negative. When it went on to become, in the words of Select editor Alexis Petridis, "this huge kind of Zeitgeist defining record" the music press was "baffled".[32] Realising they had gotten it wrong the last time, Petridis believes the initial glowing reviews were a concession to public opinion.[32]

Are you arguing that everyone is hyping this album up because everyone gave mediocre reviews to 808s and Heartbreak? (note: not everyone gave mediocre reviews to 808s.)

The critics at large have set up a narrative that this is nu-Kanye, bigger bolder concept-rap, Sgt Peppers Lonely 808s and Heart Club Brand ish. RS, P4k, Vibe, Spin are united like never before. Whether you like Late Registration more is so, so, so, so, beyond the fucking point regarding whether this album is going to be regarded as a "classic" or not

― patti ayonnaise (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:15 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

lol, but i can't think of any critics-united, "instant classic" albums that haven't held up over time, at least critically. still, this one strikes me as more shaky than most. bet stands, but make it 10 years. i'm one of the album's biggest defenders ITT, but i have a hard time believing that the praise will outlast the moment.

Hoobastank could just as easily have been an OutKast mixtape

Interior Life of Kanye would just be jacking ^off to his own Twitter feed surely?

― Matt DC, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:18 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

but i can't think of any critics-united, "instant classic" albums that haven't held up over time

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aNBTXUJotvs/S7WRqSIj3LI/AAAAAAAAANE/oBqYumy7iCA/s1600/clapping-hands-lg1.jpg

...

http://www.buhardilla.net/works/rgb/Yeah.jpg

?