Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

I think there are terms much better suited to what you are using 'dishonest' for, like maybe overblown, or bombastic, or ostentatious, or exaggerated, or over-the-top?

― deej me how to whiney (dayo), Monday, December 13, 2010 9:56 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what if it contradicts content directly?

I just like poking deej

― deej me how to whiney (dayo), Monday, December 13, 2010 9:59 AM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark

well we all do. it's just so....reliable

sorry deej i remember reading the review and don't remember it being anything more than what you would expect "hey guyz there is this cool dude who should maybe have a bigger following". it wasn't liking you were calling him the second coming of jesus.

i'm genuinely not sure whether deej is deliberately throwing these accusations around to goad me, or whether he's too dim to actually realise how serious they are for a professional critic. either way, shut the fuck up, you moronic little gadfly.

I just like poking deej

― deej me how to whiney (dayo), Monday, December 13, 2010 9:59 AM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark

i just like sbing dayo

thank you sir, may I have another

arguing? check.
butthurtedness? check.

good job guys keeping this thread alive

that universalizing-subjectivity-as-fact thing is exactly what i was criticizing lex's piece for basically how criticism works.

no, its really not

I must be missing a crucial part of your argument then.

i think we all get carried away from time to time in visceral reactions to records & end up letting this keep from being as precise as we want. i dont mean this as a damning dishonesty, like some grand conspiracy to deceive an audience, but more like an excitability that makes us more ax-grinding and less precise / genuine.

worst thread ever

at least it parallels the kanye album (overwrought, really stupid in parts, occasional glimpses of greatness but then is weighted back down by its flaws, goes on and on and on with no end in sight)

xpost. OK, I get your point now. I don't see it as subjectivity vs fact but yeah, it's hard not to get swept up in the moment, whether that's a general cultural mood or just the force of your own initial reactions. I'm not sure whether later, more distanced reactions are any more precise or genuine though - heat-of-the-moment can be genuine even if you later row back a little.

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but this stoop has the best view

worst thread ever

― i genuinely thought when i first joined that he was the admin (ilxor), Monday, December 13, 2010 11:19 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

well now that you're here

next kanye album thread needs to be treated like Animal Collective - Merriweather Post Pavilion (2009)

xpost. OK, I get your point now. I don't see it as subjectivity vs fact but yeah, it's hard not to get swept up in the moment, whether that's a general cultural mood or just the force of your own initial reactions. I'm not sure whether later, more distanced reactions are any more precise or genuine though - heat-of-the-moment can be genuine even if you later row back a little.

― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Monday, December 13, 2010 10:20 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think i tend to get more from reviews that tell me something that i, too, see in the record, then discuss how those things function, whether for good or bad. if a writer is describing something that i dont hear -- after reading it & giving it another shot to hear that particular characteristic -- especially when it seems like the writer is involved in a partisan project to convince me of its cultural value / lack thereof -- im probably not going to be very into that review. im less interested in the war between thumbs up vs. thumbs down.

this goes for whether i like or dont like or am ambivalent about a record, i think

^^^i might be overstating things a bit here, not sure, have 2 reflect

i find the idea that opinions are only genuine if they're somewhat tempered to be really odd. is this a US/UK divide? i remember back in the stylus jukebox days, all the US writers would hand out marks between 5 and 7, for EVERYTHING, whereas in the UK version you were assured every week of multiple 0s and 10s.

a partisan project

every piece of criticism is a "partisan project" o_0

every time i write a review, damn str8 i'm trying to convince the reader of an album or artist's cultural import/lack thereof

i think i tend to get more from reviews that tell me something that i, too, see in the record, then discuss how those things function, whether for good or bad.

^^ caveat that sometimes they can open up something i hadnt heard originally, but do on re-listening

yeah but imo insight trumps all

if a writer is describing something that i dont hear -- after reading it & giving it another shot to hear that particular characteristic -- especially when it seems like the writer is involved in a partisan project to convince me of its cultural value / lack thereof -- im probably not going to be very into that review gonna call that writer dishonest

fixed that for you

well, if he misrepresents something, yes

every time i write a review, damn str8 i'm trying to convince the reader of an album or artist's cultural import/lack thereof

― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, December 13, 2010 10:31 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

even if it means saying a kanye record sounds just like his old ones, when this is blatantly not the case?

*marks bingo card*

deej for all the time you seem to have spent thinking about my review, i'm not convinced you've actually read it, or indeed clocked that it's a 150-word capsule review and therefore by its very nature not going to go into great detail or justifications

xp wtf have i "misrepresented"? are you seriously going to try to have this argument again? why don't you just come out with it and call me a liar? this, fyi, is the point at which i would dump a drink on your head if you were saying this shit to me IRL

even if it means saying a kanye record sounds just like his old ones, when this is blatantly not the case?

in your opinion

for chrissakes we covered this already, both al and i actually took the time to explain this to you in detail. are you this fucking annoying IRL?

well, im going to stop arguing this now because lex is threatening to dump drinks on me & dayo is trolling w/ typical uselessness

al's argument was far more nuanced -- he suggested that the album based itself on ideas from older kanye tracks but what was added was not worthwhile & in fact made the songs worse -- a subtle distinction to you maybe but it makes a diff imo, its not the same as blatantly retreading his older stuff

im going to stop arguing this now

let's fucking hope

he suggested that the album based itself on ideas from older kanye tracks but what was added was not worthwhile & in fact made the songs worse -- a subtle distinction to you maybe but it makes a diff imo, its not the same as blatantly retreading his older stuff

i don't know if you're able to count, but untangling it like this takes up a third of my word count. i'll take using the one word "retread" instead.

if you're calling deej a retard, you spelled it wrong

Jesus deej, you just keep going around in circles huh? Were you born with a stumpy left leg?

done arguing now, just here to lol @ me having the rep for being butthurt when yall are the ones calling me retarded & saying you would throw drinks on me irl

i just sorta lol @ the idea that throwing a drink on someone is a thing that actually happens outside of sitcoms

*splash*

*beat*

"well that went well"

*laff track*

i bet lex drinks fancy cocktails so it would at least taste good

maybe thats how they do in britain. deej is lucky he didn't challenge him to a duel

someone link me to lex's review so i can pick a side

someone link me to lex's review so i can pick a side cocktail

i have thrown drinks over people before! it's very satisfying and ~cathartic~ (though not as much as punching someone in the wisdom tooth)

lol @ the idea that deej wouldn't be 500 times as butthurt if someone called his writing dishonest or deceptive

i wouldn't throw a cocktail obv - too much of a waste, not enough liquid. a pint will suffice.

lex, show me this scandalous review

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/nov/25/kanye-west-beautiful-dark-twisted-review

its way upthread iirc

i think lex is right in that deej is kinda asking a lot of a capsule review. i have no idea about lex's readership, but i always thought the point of capsule reviews was that you either trusted the critic's taste from experience, or didn't. like "oh, ____ thought it was shit? ok, i'll take a pass for now." too much nuance in something that short kinda defeats the purpose, imo, and can make me wonder why i even bothered reading in the first place. if yr gonna give me something in 150 words or less, i'd rather you stake out a clear position. but that's just me, obv

xps