Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

we had soulja boy

I had punk rock growing up, and I hated a lot of it for being too incompetent and a little too playing-with-racism-y.

(in fact, I am older than u)

the actual flaws in the record, kevin, is that he says dumb shit like "NNNAHHHHHHH PUT A PUSSY IN SARCOPHOPHOHGPGS" not that he's up on Jagjaguwar shit and knows that sometimes leaving in imperfections is an artistic choice for a lot of modern musicians

that he's up on Jagjaguwar shit

okay, stop

um

next thing you're gonna try & explain him recording in hawaii because he's into underwater peoples

Who do you thinks put out Bon Iver records?

Pitchfork doesn't just gift them to the internet

yeah but "purposefully singing poorly" is not something that kanye started doing on this album

or something that he realized was okay because of bon iver

wonder if kanye has been hipped to richard youngs

(not to mention that there's no evidence that kanye has heard any bon iver song besides "the woods" considering that's the one he samples & that he has vernon singing thru auto tune on every song)

i'm just saying chicken or egg it's an aesthetic he clearly understands

yeah but it's something he copped from lil wayne, not merge records

intentionally singing poorly is a longstanding cross-genre thing & not rlly a big deal. this debate is confusing -- obvi al's problem is that this poor singing is employed as a strategy that doesnt work for him in this instance, and other people think it does work -- these are the terms on which this debate wd actually make sense. Also 'dark fantasy' struck me as rza esque immediately, so i knew it was his track as soon as i heard it. tonally-limited off-meter loop, its like the most rza sounding thing ever

tim f says this a lot, its more helpful to think of these aesthetic approaches as 'strategies' that succeed or fail based on the listeners expectations, rather than automatically c or d techniques

bon iver is a gayng member, maybe that's how kanye know him

http://lolosad.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/sad_pug_4.jpg

pug lyfe

intentionally singing poorly is a longstanding cross-genre thing & not rlly a big deal. this debate is confusing -- obvi al's problem is that this poor singing is employed as a strategy that doesnt work for him in this instance, and other people think it does work -- these are the terms on which this debate wd actually make sense. Also 'dark fantasy' struck me as rza esque immediately, so i knew it was his track as soon as i heard it. tonally-limited off-meter loop, its like the most rza sounding thing ever

― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Friday, December 10, 2010 3:41 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

tim f says this a lot, its more helpful to think of these aesthetic approaches as 'strategies' that succeed or fail based on the listeners expectations, rather than automatically c or d techniques

― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Friday, December 10, 2010 3:43 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah true. i mean, i really don't like the singing on "Runaway" and even if you like it it shouldn't be that hard to figure out where i'm coming from. and yet here we are bringing Rough Trade and Jagjaguwar into it like that means anything at all.

I can get why someone wouldn't like "Runaway"; I was asking because the reasons you were giving didn't jibe with my experience with the song and I was curious if there was another layer that was fueling the antipathy.

yeah...if anything the extra layer is that hearing the song on the VMAs i was like "okay, it's live, he's always a little shaky there" and then the studio version comes out and the vocals are even sloppier.

i mean Kanye has aggro songs like "Keep The Receipt" where he's hollering along with ODB, i'm not really going to sweat the perfection of the vocal performance there, but "Runaway" feels like it's aspiring to be a big pop moment but then you've got this one kinda weak verse, a chorus that could've been tightened up a little, an off-topic guest rap, and singing so half-assed it makes me grind my teeth.

in an utter coincidence, i borrowed my roommate's car an hour or so ago & he had 'late registration' in the cd player & i totally forgot how sweet & endearing kanye's singing on "hey mama" is

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ld8h5wx63g1qe6dleo1_500.jpg

it was the best of times, it was the ....blurst of times???

i want poster!

Was out at a bar last night with one of those digital jukebox things and we played "Monster", got a pretty big reaction from the assembled crowd. Not as big as when we followed it up with "Hard in Da Paint" though.

assembled crowd otm

are you sure it wasn't free-shots-for-the-ladies night?

free-shots-for-the-barbies night

Runaway has been in my head for 48 hours straight. I'm as rockist as they come, but that is clearly the song of the year.

yep

clearly!

surely there must be some mistake

also how does being a rockist make you less likely to think a kanye west single is #1 of the year

Really? Come on man.

haha jordan

now, i am a rockist, but i have to say that i agree with all if the rock magazines!

whiney i thought you were gonna vote cee-lo #1

you're right

"i'm not a rockist, but i play one on ilx."

and, no lie, "Runaway" is def my track of the year.

technical terminology and taste aside, i don't know how someone would be shocked to hear another person say Kanye's reach exceeded his grasp on that part.

― da croupier, Friday, December 10, 2010 9:19 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^that's pretty much the most on-point post on this entire misbegotten thread, imo. and even tho that's kinda been Ye's MO from the start, he nonetheless continually keeps upping the ante on MBDTF. but that's exactly what makes it so thrilling to me (and maybe most of us here?), really: will he keep pushing til he reaches the "next level" (whatever the fuck that may mean), or will he fall flat, face-first on his his own arrogant bullshit?

me, i've always appreciated this tendency in "rockist" heroes like Neil Young and Lou Reed (also Madonna?), and i likewise dig it here.

of course, that doesn't make the music any better (or worse), just a little more interesting--and perhaps worth making the effort to reappraise now and again? rather than, you know, prematurely deciding "it sucks now, it sucked then, and i can personally guarantee that it will continue to suck for all time to come," just cause it was the cool, contrarian POV to hold whenever.

end of sermon

hail saytin!

but when Madonna wanted her reach to exceed her grasp she took opera lessons; Ye just got laid more often, or at least wrote about getting laid more often.

what does that have to do with anything?

just sayin' this record makes more sense when seen through Pink Floyd's DSOTM rockist prism is all. and i don't particularly care whether he's raping/singing about getting laid or setting course for the heart of the sun, either--tho, personally, i do appreciate his self-loathing quite a bit. to each his own, ya know.

he's got that ambition, baby. look in his eyes: this week he's making The Blueprint and College Dropout, next week he's mumbling unintelligibly.

oh, and Madonna exceeded her grasp every damn time she attempted to sing and/or command a stage. 's part of the reason i love her so, in fact.

*er i meant rapping there, natch*