Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

hey buddy for the 9000th time the point is that ppl are making arguments at all, and that your bubble conception of 'consensus' is usually mad distorted

like, ive never once acted like a populism-only music critic so stop claiming i am one.

http://www.nndb.com/people/172/000026094/the-weasel.jpg
hey buddy

my argument has been for ages that some stuff is underrepresented on what 'the charts' are generally thought to be, that just cuz some stuff sells better than others doesnt mean its actually more popular -- just that its audience is more likely to spend $ on music

ergo, stfu

nah dude knock the trolling off. u & al's obsession w/ my 'in my world of young ppl' statement is anti-intellectual bullshit

now the grad student worker, who wasn't even here for the earlier discussion, just walked by my desk singing to himself "aaaare you willling ... to sacrifiiiice your liiiiife"

wouldn't the true intellectuals like me and sir alfred shipley not give a fuck what a bunch of kids think?

alfred lord shiposyn to you

anti-intellectual roffles

no whiney im well aware that anything that could be construed as 'informative' isnt really useful for someone busy making fun of hipsters in 2010

shouldnt you be patting yourself on the back for arguing that music criticm's golden years were the ones where people of 'stumble culture' would stumble on your rewritten pr schlock in spin magazine

& lol @ al "i voted for lemonade once it hit top 40" shipley not caring about 'the kids'

sorry forgot to googleproof

just want to make sure that you mean that "your" is directed at my writing in particular instead of a general "your" of Spin writing before i move in for the Mortal Kombat style fatalies on you

for fuck's sake GO AWAY BOTH OF YOU

or at least get a private room. cripes, shit is embarrassing.

i mean, you guys think we're annoying, but HOW DO KIDS FEEL?

i'm banned again aren't I?

the internet is probably bad for everyone but far worse for some

a few weeks in, i still like this record a lot, am still disgusted by it on a real level but in a way that doesn't interfere with the enjoyment, and "devil in a new dress" still sucks almost as bad as chris rock & fergie. except i don't die when i fail to move fast enough to skip the first notes of "devil". surprised that it's had this much staying power, as i assumed it'd be something i'd marvel at for a week or two then never want to hear again.

re dead & stinking prog argument: it's not like people were senselessly projecting that term onto the album. on such an excessive and (endlessly) arguably "ambitious" album, frontloading an obvious king crimson sample and building several other tracks around prog-era vocal samples that sound like jon anderson (oldfield and manfred mann tracks) tends to invite the comparison. so the discussion upthread was on-point: does it really make sense to call it a "prog rap" album, once you've processed the fact that kanye is taking tips from prog and vaguely proggish rock?

re dead & stinking prog argument:

stop fucking the corpse then, you necro

I am intentionally ignoring your attempt to revive the prog argument in favor of saying that I really like the tracks on here that I like and I really dislike the tracks on here that I dislike. I initially thought I liked the likes enough to pull this album into my personal top 10 but it turns out this has more in common with MAYA than I originally thought (contains some of my favorite songs of the year but deeply deeply flawed as an album).

is it a fact that he's "taking tips"? when people sample little bits of old records, especially Kanye, and especially songs like "Power" where he basically heard another producer submit the beat to Rhymefest and decided to use it and add some stuff, I don't really picture him sitting there listening to the entire King Crimson LP and being substantially influenced by it.

i liked this album more on my last couple albums than i did initially but it's still kind of just sitting there, doesn't really move me, physically or emotionally.

on my last couple LISTENS

nah, it's clearly art-rap - more Bowie than Yes.

xps

sometimes, when I'm in the right mood, the ludicrous codas make me laugh; most of the time I just skip them (except, weirdly, for "Blame Game", I think because of the Aphex sample)

http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2010/08/nekromantik.jpg

well that was necessary

whose dark twisted fantasy is this?

is it a fact that he's "taking tips"?

i knew someone was gonna swing at that.

anyway, MAYA seems a good comparison, in that they're both identity-defining event albums from stars who've risen over the past 5 years, and they've attracted a lot of attention weird little pocket universe where pitchfork indie intersects with pop. and they're both kind of a mess, defensive products of people who seem to wall themselves up behind a sense of embattlement and paranoia. and i like them both, though i wouldn't call either a favorite. in some ways, they're more fun to reflect on, raise an eyebrow at and/or talk about than to listen to.

multi-xpost: "art-rap" is good — I still kinda like "glam-rap" but that doesn't seem like it's gonna catch on (oh well)

I don't think MAYA is a mess at all.

It's sonically surprising but of a piece.

"...a lot of attention in the weird little pocket universe..."

^ note

The middle section of MAYA still feels like a lazy copout to me, like taking the "oh I'll just record any old shit" vibe of "Mango Pickle Down River" and extending it over three consecutive tracks.

"Teqkilla", "Lovalot" and "Illygirl" own tho

recent kanye is kinda glam

OTM:

http://www.soulstrut.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/67374/P420/
james
Posted: 07 December 2010 12:38 PM
I keep wishing this record were either smarter or more honest, one of the two. It's not honest enough that I feel like I'm really getting warts and all, but nor is it smart enough that I feel like whatever's being held back is being held back intentionally. It's not focused enough to be a real deep listen, but it's calculated enough that I can't quite convince myself to hear its inconsistency as, you know, a sign of its flawed humanity or whatever.

Sonically, I think it's kinda lacking presence. It's relevant, though, and you can't front on that.

It's definitely a weather-report record, and as such it does deliver a certain electricity. But while it may stand for a minute as a sonic/aspirational yardstick, I can't imagine that in and of itself it will still have much spark six months from now. I'll be surprised if this one retains cultural or individual resonance beyond its commercial moment like 808s did.

recent kanye is kinda glam

MDTF is his David Live.

belongs in a different thread, but i've sort of run in circles with MAYA. it initially struck me as bleak, hopelessly muddled and only occasionally successful, but i played it to death over the course of a week, and gradually came to love everything about it. but in retrospect, i've come back around in my appreciation to where i'm now somewhere between the two points. it's good, occasionally great, but the one thing it doesn't sound, to me, is "of a piece". it's more like a jigsaw puzzle than an album, and i keep changing the running order, swapping tracks in and out to make sense of it.

MBDTF has different problems, in that it does sound of a piece, but the whole is rather ugly. DJP OTM re: "teqkilla" (which threw me at first) and "illygirl", but i'd swap "lovealot" for "born free", "xxxo" and/or "meds & feds".

yeah that soulstrut post is pretty on point. not sure what graemlin would convey that, though.

nailing it down in that soulstrut post

soulstrut post pinpoints my problem with the album's POV and self-awareness. wish i could have thought that through and articulated it on my own, but i'm glad someone did. but, even if MBDTF isn't smart or honest enough to make real virtues of its many flaws, the absence of humanizing virtue helps give it a grotesque, darkly comic kind of trainwreck appeal.

the google connected to the government

("Born Free" and "XXXO" are also great; "Meds and Feds" is okay but I've come to enjoy the Sleigh Bells song it samples more)

For me, there are certain songs on this that will still spark six months from now ("Power", "Monster", "Runaway", "Hell of a Life", "Blame Game" and "Lost in the World"). As an overall album, this isn't as good as 808s or LR; I kind of view it on par with Graduation.

i still like this album, though i usually stop listening at "blame game" (i think i've maybe only heard "lost in the world" once or twice (!?!)). i don't really care how truthful it is or whether it's prog or glam, i just think it's a really visceral, exciting album. it fits in my wheelhouse of dense, energetic, loud music.

"lost in the world" is great though!

the Sleigh Bells song it samples

o_O

not much talk of the album concept/story here which is largely because you'd have to see the short film to really pick up on it and everyone just accepts that it's a really lame and So Appalling story right?

"Meds & Feds"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R86GH2wmx2o&feature=fvst

"Treats"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSuRHiW988

"samples" isn't the right word really, but yeah