WINTER'S BONE

except when she finds the hands cuz her father checked in on 4square

@swamp

great as advertised

keep thinking abt it

subtle class differentiations were v important: thinking of the bail bondsman's later model car, leather jacket

party w/laura palmer was a step up too - that scene was when i realized oh this movie is abt the culture of this one clan specifically

they more or less had their own world

people who have some toe-hold in the official economy kind of drift into the story and out again, sort of pityingly, almost apologetically. almost all of them are part of the enforcement state (the cop, the bondsman, the army recruiter)

the drug economy is very well understood in this movie i think -- both a productive engine and a parasitical machine that chews people up. you wonder what these folks would be doing if they weren't selling drugs to each other and doing them... and then the answer is probably not much

or "just living" to be more forgiving about it

anone know where exactly this took place, in the ozarks right, but was it specifically in some town or

the border of MI and AR is an impt part of the story -- love stuff like that, two jurisdictions, one population, interzone type shit. the place is probably ficionalized, but it did come from a novel right? i don't know.

all v otm btw xp i liked the 1st interaction between the bondsman when he realized fuck this is just a little girl in a horrible situation and softens up - interaction w/the recruter was kinda interesting too for his delivering good advice and sort of connecting while maintaing institutional distance

xxpost I was curious about this myself. fwiw IMDB says it was filmed in Branson, Missouri, USA & Forsyth, Missouri, USA.

i was also really hooked the insane mixture of ree's complete steely canniness (in her own environment) and total innocence and naivete w/r/t anything outside it -- thinking of the recruiter explaining that you don't just get the $40k for signing your name, we are shipping your country ass to iraq, ps no parents? really?

and doesn't that happen right before she teaches her siblings how to hunt squirrel?

Which I did think was too tidy an ending for a movie whose protagonist - despite being smart and tenacious - already more or less just had to stick around long enough and wait for everyone around her to suddenly help her despite repeatedly professing their disinterest in doing so. And, you know, in some cases trying to kill her.

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, December 5, 2010 10:37 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i know everyones already piled on josh but this is just an egregious misreading of the plot - she doesnt just stick around waiting for people to help her - she spends the entire move acting in such a way that they will either have to kill her or give her her dad - its specifically what the movie is about

she figured correctly that delivering her dad would be less trouble legally and morally than killing her - this is aptly illustrated when teardrop takes the ax to guys windshield and he reacts saying 'were gonna bring hell down on you' - of course what the actual reaction is is to give in and give up evidence of her fathers death - news got back to thump and he was all 'dont really want to deal w/both these crazy fucks let just be done w/it whatevs'

as for everyone complaining abt the bail money - it really wasnt that big a deal or central to the plot and whatever paperwork requirements couldve been worked around in any number of ways - the main thing was keeping the house - i did feel like what it did was relieve teardrop of his responsibility to the family - allowing him to go on his suicide mission against whoever killed his brother

novel:

http://www.reviewsofbooks.com/winters_bone/

"border of MO and AR" i should say

MOAR

that delivering her dad would be less trouble legally and morally than killing her

But why, if they had no legal or moral trouble with killing her dad and leaving her to scramble?

Anyway, I get the movie's clan mentality, blood is thicker than water, etc. But the way the movie is set up and its characters /depicted introduced, there's a whole lot more killing that goes down after the credits roll. The guy who Teardrop thinks killed Jessup, then one presumes Jessup himself, then whoever told Teardrop who killed Jessup, and so on. Which of course would not have happened had Jessup not been killed in the first place, so perhaps the movie can be read as a take on what happens when you don't respect the bond of family, however tenuous.

Read somewhere that Lawrence had her teeth made-up/discolored, even though you never see her teeth in the film.

gender diffs also very impt -- i'm thinking of the scene where teardrop rescues ree, she's been beaten up, and he's ready to throw down right there at the sight of her hurt, but is assured that it's only the women who hurt her. the chain of revenge doesn't cross gender lines.

you get the sense that if ree were a young dude she just would have been shot early on.

her dad was snitching, which threatened the whole clan, therefor the legal risks of murder were worthwhile and the moral bond was disolved by his actions - with her the legal risks just werent worth it particularly considering it creates a pattern and points directly back to thump et al via everyone knowing she was out harassing them - morally shes just a little girl trying to save her family and shes shown tremendous heart and bravery, criminal enterprises depend on both fear of retaliation and the bond of loyalty, shes exactly the person whos murder would degrade group loyalty - add that to the fact that everyone is clearly deathly afraid of teardrop and its just easier to give her a hand(s)

Re the bail bond: I think the accused person contracts with the bond agent him- or herself, and that person is responsible for putting up the money. So the anonymous donor was really giving the $$ to Ree's dad who then gave it to the agent = the agent will return it to Ree's dad, who will owe it, by personal commitment, to his benefactor. That loan is none of the agent's business.

A bail bond can be co-signed by someone on the accused's behalf, but in that case the benefactor's identity is required, legally. You know the benefactor only bailed him out so they could kill him, so guaranteed that person needed to stay anonymous and can never come looking for the money, therefore see Paragraph 1.

I thought this movie was great.

Rewatching this now. Every bit as good as I remembered. The people who think this film over-amps the milieu -- rural culture, poverty, etc -- are 1. misreading the movie a little and 2. apparently haven't spent much time in places like this (which is fine since most people haven't).

1. A key scene that goes without enough notice is when Ree walks the kids to school and hangs around watching other teens her age go through the high-school motions. They aren't taking AP classes, they're taking Home Ec and ROTC, but it establishes that Ree's life isn't the norm even in this pocket of the Ozarks.

2. My dad and stepmom -- who both grew up in rural Arkansas (not in the Ozarks, but they have experience with that area too) -- watched this recently. When the scene of Ree teaching the kids to skin and clean squirrel happened, they looked at each other and said, "We've done that." The only thing that seemed off to my dad was that the family lived in a log house, which he thinks would have been too expensive for them.

My stepmom remembered a moonshiner buying sugar from her father's store. This guy ended up going to prison, coming out, and switching to marijuana. Today he'd be on to meth, probably.

From my own time in that area, the visuals - stray dogs, rusting cars, trampolines in the side yard -- are spot-on.

Final note: For whoever was complaining about the "stick of butter" upthread -- it wasn't a stick, it was a tablespoon full. She's frying potatoes. This is normal.

Hubie, we miss you on ILH!

I could have sworn it was Crisco or lard - was it definitely butter?

interesting

i was going to start a thread about scary backwoods types after seeing this film

intriguing part of american culture innit

the grimmer the milieu the more it gets leavened with humor ime, but I guess it's a style thing

laurel your explanation makes sense

There's a quote in the Drive-By Truckers documentary where the guitarist, Mike Cooley, basically notes that most of America is peppered with shelled-out backwoods places decimated by poverty, yet it's a stereotype that seems to stick to the south. Or in this case rural southern mountain folk. Doesn't make it any less accurate, of course.

The depiction, that is.

There were a small number of people who lived w this kind of poverty where I grew up, which isn't remotely southern or mountainous. It's pretty rural, though. And I don't think any kind of drug culture had taken hold although I guess what do I know.

But I remember being told about kids my age who lived in a one- or two-room...probably "shack" is appropriate. The story had it that they put all their clothes in a pile at night, and whoever got up first got to pick what to wear -- and there was only enough to go around. I remember being in class with one of those boys, but as a kid you just don't understand what it means.

nice to see some deadwood crew in something good, though i didn't place the sheriff (francis wolcott/jack mccall) until the end

it seems like all of television these days is comprised of the deadwood crew - the shows I watch, at least

(loved WB btw)

Garret Dillahunt is everywhere

Everyone above is otm about John Hawkes in this, too

pretty mediocre if you've read the book tbqfh

like i know that's not fair but

How come?

Because film is inherently inferior to fiction? *sniffs brandy*

Don't get me wrong, the film is merely good, but was bound to overpraised given the amount of absolute shit on domestic screens this year.

Actually, I'd really like to know what the book is like, since it seems like the kind of story that would benefit from a glimpse into the way her mind works.

eh essentially (and i totally *get* why they did this) the film trades the majority of ree's interior life for ugly scenery and added scenes that i guess are supposed to give you a feel for the place, instead of the character. the book is mercifully light on descriptions of junked cars and trailer homes. mostly the ree in the film is a bit of a cipher, where the book suggests that she's an outsider not just because of her fearlessness but also because she just kind of thinks differently from the people surrounding her.

one particular added scene that drove me fucking nuts was w/the army recruiter--the whole point of her character is that she is not naive!

also on a basic production choices level i don't really get some of the changes they made--maybe they couldnt shoot in snow due to logistics but the book is extremely snowy. why did they make one of her little brothers a sister? why did they change her clothing (in the book she wears old print dresses or skirts with combat boots and a gigantic winter coat) which is key to imagining her tramping around the ozarks?

i mean, it's a fine movie, not that much wrong with it, i don't really know how i would have rated it if i had seen it before reading.

It's harder – not impossible – for films to suggest a character's interiority. Many times it's up to the actor to think in character – one of the signs of a good actor for me, actually.

yeah, again, i understand why they dropped a lot of stuff, but for sure some of it could've been worked in

one of my fav details--when she's splitting wood w/headphones on--she likes to listen to new age "sounds of the rainforest" shit. would've been an easy add imo

the film didn't really trade in counterintuitive details like that, unfortunately

Okay I'm reading the book now. You made me. I mean not NOW now but I'm going to go find a copy.

itll only take you like half a day, i had a good time (nb i don't read much fiction anymore especially newer fiction)

lol at the sheriff - possibly reprising his role as a Terminator? When Ree meets him for the first time she asks him 'why are you here?' and was just expecting him to say 'I'm looking for John Connor.'

CAD otm about the changes to Ree and the atmosphere in general, also missed the tense aftermath of her beating (Uncle Teardrop and other relatives standing guard outside the house) but I felt like even the novel kind of ran out of steam at the end, like Woodrell couldn't figure a better way to resolve Ree finding her father.

yeah i'd agree with that

felt like something you'd see on tv. it wasn't bad or whatever, but there wasn't much to this film besides a narrative, and the story was actually pretty boring. as a study in showing some types of people you don't see in other films then yeah it was grand, but ultimately forgettable imo.

saw this tonight. relentlessly bleak in a way that i generally don't enjoy but there were some genuinely interesting things about this film. in particular kept thinking about gender and how there appeared to be two gender hierarchies. up until a certain point every time ree tried to deal with the men she was rebuffed (generally by the women) and women kept interceding on her behalf or sending her forward. this obv comes up again when the women beat her. it made me think a lot about questions of domesticity + who controls what kinds of power/influence. that obv women were generally living under the shadow of these brutal men (and it seemed clear to me that this was a milieu with lots of domestic violence -- even that scene w/ ostensibly the good guy, hawkes' character indicated that), but that they also had their own understandings between them and representations of power. one of the issues for ree is that she was taking on some of the roles men in this family were expected to take (and they even make a point of asking her at one point, 'aren't there any men that could do this for you?') and that she constantly runs up against certain expectations for what she can/should do -- but then also those other avenues for representations of power are how she's able to do a lot of these things.