Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

it's like oh i'm so dark and perverse but it's all pretty much your standard materialist straight guy shit

al, as a married adult, how do you stand rap music

All married adults everywhere are the same, yes, exactly. Likewise all rap. Totally. Yes, thats what I said.

while my wife's at work my son and i listen to mixtapes. we've got yelawolf on right now.

i don't mind pop music about kinky sex or shit like that. "Bad Romance" is a great example of that kind of thing; nothing on MBDSMF is.

i like that the tone of some dude's "rant" is pretty even and balanced. i don't get critics that complain about the hyperbole of the overwhelming positive hype and 10.0 ratings and then turn around hyperbolize the opposite direction, all hair-pulling and teeth-gnashing

I don't think I was teeth-gnashing, certainly not compared to how I used to. I was going for baffled disappointment and distaste.

to be fair i got a lot of my more argumentative points and hair-pulling out of my system on this thread first

My own take from a couple of weeks ago.

I think my key feeling about this record is that if someone caught me listening to it I'd feel embarrassed.

al thats a really good review!

Yeah, Al, the U2 comparison was spot-on (although I think the U2 album sold less than its predecessors).

the U2 is where it loses me, because this feels like a more erm 'relevant' record -- more w/ the zeitgeist & less pulling by purely on classic rock bono-fides etc -- but other than that im pretty much w/ it

it being al's review

Well, we'll find out by February whether MDTF has staying power.

oh its gonna top pnj im sure

yeah the whole year i felt like there might be some genuine suspense around what would p&j but there's no way this doesn't waltz to the top

staying power /= topping P&J

what = staying power?

we'll know in february i guess?

commercial success. I mentioned the U2 album because it fell off the chart quickly after topping it and produced no hits.

vmas = staying power

i said this upthread but most of kanye's albums have one or two singles doing well months and months after release -- jesus walks, touch the sky, flashing lights, etc. -- i'm curious if this will have one, because i have no idea what song that hasn't already been a single on here could have legs

i think hed argue its not really a 'singles' album anyway, but obv monster has legs

i mean well singles released after the album's release -- "Monster" was out before the album and might have even peaked already

isn't this precisely the type of album where if it fails in the market it burnishes it's rep as much as any hit status would?

probably, although it'd be pretty awkward if the 'curveball' 808s thrived and then this return to rap mea culpa kinda thing didn't do as well

i think by ditching the mascot cover he made it clear this wasnt as much a return

For all the talk of 808's "difficulty" it had "legs" -- I heard "Amazing" and "Knock You Down" on the radio well into 2009.

"knock you down" wasn't on that album and i didn't hear "amazing" much, but yeah that album was a total commercial success, mainly due to "heartless"

al that's an excellent review of course

where's 'heartless' rank on most well known (ie yr parents might know it) kanye songs? 'gold digger's up top but 'heartless' is probably top 3 right? unless my dad feels the need to track down the source of espn's bumper music (that would be 'power') i'm pretty sure he will never know a song here.

yeah i think it'd probably be: gold digger, heartless, after that probably jesus walks, slow jamz, stronger

yeah "heartless" is prob his second biggest hit after "gold digger"

i could see "gorgeous" getting some rap radio play if it wasn't produced to sound all muffled -- i bet they'll put "lost in the world" out as a single but i don't see how it would do any better than, like, "paranoid"

that review lays it all out nicely

xpost yeah I've been thinking "Lost in the World" could do okay depending on how they edit it for radio — feels like one of those big dancey worldwide-electro-party songs I associate with europe and the blackeyedpeas

al's review is how i felt when he was the voice of clarity on jay's 'american gangster', except this time i don't exactly agree w/ him

"Paranoid" should've been a smash hit.

some dude otm

Patrick Bateman - http://sickmouthy.wordpress.com/2010/12/07/patrick-bateman/

re: nick's review

I think the bad quality is the crux of it. Many many many more albums are more disgusting, mysogynastic (sp?) and so on but make up for it with musical qualities. great beats, melodies or song writing. The Big Boi album has skits about weird sex tricks and fetishes (was it Whiney who said the lol otm point about Jannelle Monae being proud to make her grandmother listen to her song with this huge superstar when just before it is a skit about teabagging?) but no-one sees it as an issue because the record is inventive and knows that the skit shouldn't get in the way of why you buy the record. Chris Rock is given too much time on a song that goes on tooooooo long and is gross on it. He has 3 skits on Lil Jon's Crunk Juice too that are about fucking and "skeeting" but together they come in at just over a minute, spread between about 10 songs. He is also actually funny the first time you hear him on Crunk Juice. Kanye on the other hand seems to think of the skit as a major serious part of the record and it is jarring, disgusting and most importantly, humourless.

i don't really have a problem with it as it just sounds like a typical chris rock routine

here's a little samples guide anyway if it wasn't linked already lol mike oldfield etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TSDc0vZMkc

don't think the tunes/production is that bad either - no worse than on Graduation at least (and definitely as catchy). bits and bobs are as good as anything he's done e.g. strings on So Appalled and sample treatments generally.

gtfo "as good as anything he's done". go get a late pass and pick up a copy of blueprint while you are there.

lol the least of this album's problems is that it is "misogynistic"

was just talking about the skit. there are 100s of problems here. power is p much the only thing stopping this from being an 01.0 in my mind.

(oh and ross&chef)

it's funny--i was really not looking forward to relistening to this but i did get through about half of it yesterday.

i really don't find it contemptible, it's just boring.

do try not to wet yourself with indignation hoy

are all shops stocking the DVD edition with the original banned cover then, or just a select few that got orders in early ?