Rolling Teenpop 2006 Thread

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Rolling Teardrop 2005 Thread

reo, Monday, 16 January 2006 01:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Frank, which six songs on D&M are better than "All About Us"? I'm thinking the title track definitely - close to the best thing they've done (bleak, like a death march covered in Euro-torch style), maybe "Gomenasai" (though I've gone off that a bit since Flipsyde's awful "Happy Birthday" that samples it) and "Friend Or Foe" are more song-y and "Loves Me Not" has better punch, but five songs better? Sheesh, I love the record and I'm not agreeing with you here.

edward o (edwardo), Monday, 16 January 2006 01:39 (eighteen years ago) link

The outer space song is the best track on the new taTu album! It totally reminds me of all those Boney M songs about Exoduses 10 million light years away, which I hadn't given much thought to in the past couple years. It's beautiful.

Haven't gone back and read all the Morningwood posts, but I'm confused -- are they being marketed as a teen pop act now, and if so, why? Or are they just on this thread tangentially? They've been bumming around NYC for a couple years, basically Yeah Yeah Yeahs bandwagon jumpers near as I could tell (which is to say, less intereresting than either Scandal *or* Pylon); the one show I saw, while I was DJ-ing between sets at Southpaw in Brooklyn a couple years ago, was completely awful, and very much as Anthony described it, and I said so in a gig-preview blurb I wrote for the Voice's listings section next time they came around: Unrocking garage rock fronted by an embarrassing loud woman who kept trying to hammer into our heads that they were all about SEX and they must be making us REALLY HOT even though, at least to my eyes and ears, there was nothing remotely sexy about either she or their music. They had a vinyl EP out locally at the time with a big pink tit drawn on the cover, furthuring rubbing in their dumb essence before existence we're-sexy-because-we-say-so baloney. Still, they weren't the worst band in town, I guess. Some people seemed to like them okay. I'd say most of the listings blurbs they got in the Voice were neither love em or hate em. Never saw the one quoted above, but yeah, it sounds like an advertisey Siren Festival supplement preview done by the promotions department, not something from the listings section. If they are indeed starting to take off nationally in some even meager way, I gotta say I'm kinda surprised. Jeanne Fury's review of their album (which I haven''t heard) should run in the Voice in the next few weeks....but anyway, back to my original question: What's teenpop about them?

xhuxk, Monday, 16 January 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago) link

"Cosmos", that was one of the ones that caught my ear on the first listen too, but I didn't imagine it would have got much love aside. Apparently there's a demo where the lyrics are "Together we are gay.. in outer space" that was leaked to the net by the producer! I haven't heard it though.

edward o (edwardo), Monday, 16 January 2006 14:37 (eighteen years ago) link

What's teenpop about them?

If "Boyfriend" is teenpop, then "Nth Degree" - the single - is.

Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:34 (eighteen years ago) link

In the top post Frank mentions Weezer and Akon, so I think any act that pimps themselves to the teen audience or sounds like they plausibly could gets discussion here.

Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, that's fine with me, Anthony, though I haven't heard the single, and wasn't aware of the pimping to teens, and can't imagine Morningwood will get any Radio Disney play like I assume Frank was saying Akon and Weezer do. But hey, I'm obviously the last person to complain abot elastic genre boundaries. I was just curious what the logic was, is all.

xhuxk, Monday, 16 January 2006 16:45 (eighteen years ago) link

if you heard the single you could imagine it playing on Radio Disney.

Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Disco beat, compressed guitars, girl spelling out the name of her band AND spelling out the word "awesome." So candyass that I was surprised to find they were being sold as some credibly underground phenomenon rather than the authors of the theme song to Jessica Wylie, Teen Detective or something.

Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

actually i double-checked and she doesn't spell out 'awesome.' but here's the chorus. Maybe I read that in a promo blurb or something. Phoned it in, sorry.

Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Uh oh, here we go
Turn up the radio
Come on everybody
To the Nth degree
If you're rock and roll, disco, heavy metal angel
Come on everybody, to the Nth degree
M-O
M-O-R
M-O-R-N-I-N-G-W-O-O-D
To the Nth degree

Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 16:55 (eighteen years ago) link

They're not being sold as an underground phenomenon.

If they're getting marketed as teenpop, that's because they're on a major label and they don't know how else to promote them.

They've been on late night shows and such. Has anyone gotten a promo copy? Could you tell what market they were leaning toward? I know the song's getting played on the radio somewhere or other, I just don't know what kind of stations.

Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link

They're not being sold as an underground phenomenon.

They're a group with roots in the NY scene that inspires audience stripping, dude!

Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:05 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Morningwood will be aimed square at the Scissor Sisters market - in the UK at least.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:06 (eighteen years ago) link

They're a group with roots in the NY scene that inspires audience stripping, dude!

Conveying information != repeating marketing strategy

Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link

right.

I'd be a little more impressed if they actually claimed to be influenced by Ashlee Simpson.

Zwan (miccio), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Anyway, I have been successfully chastened for conveying information. If anyone wants to present evidence that Morningwood is being marketed as a teenpop phenom, we can continue discussing them, otherwise we can leave them behind all happy and stuff.

Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 16 January 2006 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link

xhuxk, I started the Morningwood thing. Almost sorry I did. The CD is en masse at BestBuy and Tower, front of store rackspace, indicating major label pay to position grease. The cover photo screams teenpop, apparently makes the singer look much younger and less brassy than she actually is, the backing band look like Simple Plan. I was curious but didn't feel like buying it. Good thing because since Jeanne's doing, there'd be no way for me to write it off.

If anyone wants to present evidence that Morningwood is being marketed as a teenpop phenom, we can continue discussing them, otherwise we can leave them behind all happy and stuff.

This is pop music, not stem cell research. I had a question, the reasoning which led to I've gone into -- twice. The band appeared to me to be marketed as teenpop instore. Nothing more. I was curious so I asked a question this thread. Da, verstehen Sie?

George the Animal Steele, Monday, 16 January 2006 17:18 (eighteen years ago) link

No problem with bringing them up George. Not everybody on the metal or country threads is "marketed as metal" or "marketed as country" either. If somebody thinks some band or song belongs, they or it belong. (I will perhaps say more once I actually hear their album.)

xhuxk, Monday, 16 January 2006 17:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Re Veronicas - I wish they'd stuck with the original video clip. Their brazen "let's pick up at the pool, it's okay if we both go home with the one guy" mission for sex conveyed so much more personality than the boring US video clip.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 16 January 2006 20:47 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know if Morningwood is teen-pop. I do know that there's a huge push even at the indie level - the label is doing a Listening Post with my taste-making store and gave us free vinyl 7" with purchase (how many teen-pop fans have turntables?).

It seems to have worked - the disc came in at #6 on our weekly sales chart, 2nd highest chart debut for the week (behind Bleeding Through).

I'm listening now and... Well gosh, I think I love the band so damn much I don't much care if they're contrived or not. But I'm a sucker for female-led fuzzy-guitar power-pop bands (The Sounds are another one).

Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Monday, 16 January 2006 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Elaborating on what Chuck said, you don't have to be marketed as teenpop to become teenpop, what with Fatboy Slim and 2 Unlimited with tracks on Radio Disney permanent play (and you don't have to be teenpop to be relevant to a teenpop thread). Destiny's Child wasn't particularly marketed as teenpop, they just got that audience among others.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 01:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Top five tracks on t.A.T.u.'s Dangerous and Moving: "Cosmos (Outer Space)," "Loves Me Not," "Perfect Enemy," "Friend or Foe," and "Sacrifice" (though I do like "All About Us" about as much as "Sacrifice").

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 01:34 (eighteen years ago) link

After all, Loretta Lynn was once teenpop.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 01:58 (eighteen years ago) link

"Sacrifice" better than "Dangerous and Moving" = you is mental, Kogan.

I think it's odd that the Veronicas are launching in the UK with "Everything I'm Not", which I guess IS kinda halfway between "Since U Been Gone" and "My Happy Ending", but with a lot less kick than either.

edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 02:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Just saw the video for "To the Nth Degree." Yes, it's got Radio Disney potential, also hit potential (though I merely like it rather than adore it). First, it's new wave in the late '70s sense, meaning loud rockers allowing themselves to riff loud and simple, goofy vocals on top, which are goofy and vocodered enough to appeal to kids, as will all that chanting/spelling that Anthony described. And the video is catchy itself, the group being a collection of different album covers coming to life one after another, so they get to pose as all different kinds of band: a '60s Partridge Family cleancut flower-power-y, an '80s hairmetal, Richard Simmons aerobics ad, and so on.

(And now Launch Yahoo is playing "All About Us," which is quite gorgeous. The video has the girls walking around wan and expressionless, as if they were forced to appear in a Depeche Mode video instead.)

OK, I'm watching Morningwood again, and I don't see how this doesn't dominate MTV. They're posing as Queen, then they're posing as Santana, then they're Kraftwerk, then they're Hole. And the song is more disco-wavy than I'd indicated (but DOR disco rather than British new-romantic disco).

And now Launch is playing Mariah's "All I Want for Christmas Is You"; the song achieves something I didn't think Mariah could pull off: a Ronettes-Crystals sound while Mariah still gets to be her vocal-trapeze-artist self. (I miss that Mariah. The new Mariah seems chastened and subdued in comparison.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 03:48 (eighteen years ago) link

And now they're playing real teenybopper pop - that is, System of a Down's "B.Y.O.B." a song I find very witty and catchy with its hammy la la la-la la-la-la-la ooooooo, and then an actually compelling r&b-ish party break, followed thrash spinach about fascist nations and sending the poor to war. "Still you feed us lies from the tablecloth." I saw this band at the Pepsi Center; I was one of the two adults accompanying a couple of 11-year-olds and a couple of 14-year-olds. Naomi (my ex gf Naomi, mother of two of them) that I found this song very funny, and she said, "Funny? Frank, the words are very serious." In a serious tone of voice.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 03:55 (eighteen years ago) link

OK, now I'm watching/hearing Morningwood's "Jetsetter": little-girl gooey voice on a gooey melody that I like, followed by loud guitars and rather mediocre in-your-face (or your-ear) loud-bitch singing which'd work better if this part were catchier but reminds me too much of the Plasmatics (who are probably these guys' idols). Then the gooey melody returns but this time with loud guitar accompaniment, and that works OK but not as well as when it was soft and gooey. I might like this more if I didn't have in mind all your negative comments about their live show. But it's mediocre on its own merits. Nowhere as engaging as "To the Nth Degree."

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 04:05 (eighteen years ago) link

Repeat of my earlier post, this time with errors corrected:

And now they're playing real teenybopper pop - that is, System of a Down's "B.Y.O.B." a song I find witty and catchy with its hammy la la la-la la-la-la-la ooooooo leading into a compelling r&b-ish party break, followed by thrash spinach concerning fascist nations and sending the poor to war. "Still you feed us lies from the tablecloth." I saw this band at the Pepsi Center; I was one of the two adults accompanying a couple of 12-year-olds and a couple of 15-year-olds. I told Naomi (my ex gf, mother of two of them) that I found this song very funny, and she said, "Funny? Frank, the words are very serious." In a serious tone of voice.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 04:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Quickly want to say that Anthony is on the money in regard to Evanescence's relation to teenpop (and note that lead singer Amy Lee was only 20 when Fallen was released). There are similarities between the ghostly opening to Evanescence's "Bring Me To Life" and the ghostly opening to Hilary Duff's "Fly," though the chorus to "Bring Me" has more in common (in tune and delivery) with some of the rocking stuff by Avril and Kelly. As for what generated what, Fallen comes after Michelle Branch's "Everywhere" (maybe the start of the modern teen confessional sound) and after the first Avril album, is the same year as Hilary's "Come Clean," precedes "Fly" and Breakaway, and no doubt has a lot of rock and goth sources that I know nothing about, but anyway chicken and egg here. I didn't give Fallen much attention when I first got it, so I'm only digging into it now and I reserve the right to subsequently fall in love with it. So far I'll echo Anthony's comment about it being too one-note, by which I assume he's referring to Amy Lee's beautiful but monolithic (and eventually monotonous) voice. "Bring Me to Life" and "Going Under" move me the most, and they're the most pop. Hard to say why I prefer "Fly" to "Bring Me to Life": I like the tune more, and I think the song and the performance have better pacing; Hilary's sketch of a voice serves her song well, while Amy's strong gorgeous wail eventually lays a burden on hers. But each song is good; "Fly" just happens to be my favorite of the last couple of years.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 07:14 (eighteen years ago) link

As for what sounds powerfully Evanescent these days: go straight to "Addicted" and "Hear Me" on Kelly Clarkson's Breakaway, which are Fallen without hope of redemption, the same lost wail but deployed to better effect by Kelly.

Credits: Kelly Clarkson's "Addicted" written by Kelly Clarkson, Ben Moody, David Hodges; Evanescence's "Bring Me to Life" written by Amy Lee, Ben Moody, David Hodges; Moody was the guitarist in Evanescence, is the guitarist on "Addicted" and co-produced it with Hodges; "Hear Me" is written by Kelly Clarkson, Kara DioGuardi, Cliff Magness; produced by Magness who played most of the instruments; Magness produced and co-wrote the more melodramatically fraught-sounding songs on the first Avril album.

The song I hear echoed in a lot of these tracks: Stevie Nicks' "Edge of Seventeen" (not the rhythm accompaniment, but Stevie's melody and her way of singing it). And of course Lindsay Lohan covers "Edge of Seventeen" on her recent album.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 07:41 (eighteen years ago) link

[Morningwood] guitars and rather mediocre in-your-face (or your-ear) loud-bitch singing which'd work better if this part were catchier but reminds me too much of the Plasmatics (who are probably these guys' idols).

Ha! So Frank, you're saying the Morningwood goyl can't sing at all 'cuz Wendy O. sure couldn't even though I liked her. It gets really obvious and desperate on her recordings after Dieter Dirks did Coup d'etat which was the Plasmatics' most metal and probaby their most likely to appeal to teens. Hey, now maybe I'd like Morningwood, although I still don't know if there's someone like Richie Stotts in the band. No one wore a nurse's uniform on the cover.

I bet you could play "Concrete Shoes" for tweeners and a some of them would like it. That song never aged.

George the Animal Steele, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 07:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Sing shming... yeah, Wendy O. wasn't really singing, the Morningdope probably is somewhat, but it's still like, I don't know, a poor man's Deborah Iyall or something. (I like "Never Say Never"; no one who's tried to copy it does that bored pained broad thing as well as Iyall did in the talking part of "Never Say Never." The Slunt version is the only alive thing on the generally boring Slunt album, but the Romeo Void original cuts it.) Launch.yahoo.com streams a couple of Morningwood vids, so you can hear for yourself. The only Plasmatics song I really know (have it on tape) is "Butcher Baby." I remember a round robin interview years ago either in the Voice or the Soho News with a bunch of female performers (including a couple I knew), and Wendy O. kept interrupting to say "My pussy's wet when I perform." She was really irritating, but I can see how someone like that might occasionally pull of some good music.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 16:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Huh, that is impolite. I used to have quite a few of her records. "It's My Life" was a good song, written by a member of Kiss, on her first solo. It was generally propped up by the session men. There was raft of genuinely dreadful thrash metal albums, some horrible concept piece with Lemmy. She contributed some performances to "Reform School Girls," which fit the theme.

At one point she had points for being beaten by cops -- maybe in Scranton or Detroit -- who took exception to her being onstage with her bosoms covered only by whipped cream.

George the Animal Steele, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I've just got "Alla Flickor" by Linda Bengtzing, who I think might be Danish, off slsk and it's a stupidly upbeat cartoony tune. It goes very close to being too happy, but I think maintains form just about.

Nick H (Nick H), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 21:05 (eighteen years ago) link

Linda is Swedish, Nick. That was a contestant to represent Sweden in Eurovision last year. Very good. We should have a schlager thread.

edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 21:09 (eighteen years ago) link

"Nth Degree" by Woke Up With Wood, oops that's ZZ Top, I mean Morningwood is indeed cute, and more dance-oriented than I remember them being when I saw them live. I like when that little Axl shriek pops in a couple times (what's he saying?), and it's kind of funny (at least for now, could get totally annoying if I hear it enough) when the singer yells "harder!" before spelling out their naughty name, also, that line about the whole family only needing one bed is weird, though I guess Yeah Yeah Yeahs and White Stripes lyrics have made incest fashionable, and these guys gotta jump that bandwagon; not sure whether the fact that Radio Disney fans (assuming they ever hear this song, which is by no means guaranteed) won't understand all that creeps me out or reminds me of the Ohio Express's oral sex songs. Rest of the album, um, reminds me of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs (who I think are OK but don't love) and strikes me (so far) as deluded in re: rocking energy and sexiness as the show I saw. But my opinion may evolve/change over time. Right now I really hate the "take off your clothes/see how it grows" song. I can't decide whether I like her voice or not; I do get the idea I'd hate her less if she didn't try so damn hard. The most grating parts seem mostly to be when she gets loud. Which is a lot. And give or take the disco-skirting parts, I don't see anything particularly interesting about her band; Yeah Yeah Yeahs definitely have a better guitarist, near as I can tell. But these guys are competent, I guess. Which may or may not be enough.

xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Listening to the Mama Shouldn't Let Me Babysit song now; realizing I don't particularly like when her voice gets soft, either. At either volume, there is something thin about her vocal timbre that makes it unsexy for me; she often sounds like she's forcing something. Also realizing that, for a band with such a sex schtick, these guys seem pretty humorless -- compare them to, say, Gravy Train!!!; Morningwood just seem way more serious and mercenary about it. Or compare them to Princess Superstar, who I don't like much, but whose bad babysitter song (exactly the same theme, right?) is a lot more fun. And catchier.

xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Album seems best when backup chants come in; they should do that more. Also, they should spell out words in all their songs. I'm not even sure what they're spelling in "Everybody Rules," but it sounds good. And they should not try to be a Rock Band. They suck at that. The songs that sound the most like teenpop blow away everything else.

xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:52 (eighteen years ago) link

I.e., her voice sounds way better when it's actually PRODUCED. She thinks she's raw in more ways than one, but she's not. When her voice is left raw, it's useless. When it's embellished, I kind of like it.

xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:54 (eighteen years ago) link

(Which is to say that the last couple tracks are actually likeable.)

xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 14:56 (eighteen years ago) link

(As is the track AFTER the last couple tracks, i.e., hidden track #11, which just appears to be some little kids babbling about how "everybody rules." Maybe not worth hearing more than twice though.)

xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:01 (eighteen years ago) link

p.s.) Didn't Xgau say once that Wendy O. should sing with her "nether lips"?

p.s.s.) I still like the Slunt album fine.

xhuxk, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:19 (eighteen years ago) link

reminds me of the Ohio Express's oral sex songs

I STRONGLY FUCKING OBJECT TO THE IDEAS IMPLIED BY THIS STATEMENT

The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 15:25 (eighteen years ago) link

I might like this more if I didn't have in mind all your negative comments about their live show.

Which I really enjoyed. I thought they (Morningwood) were a lot more fun than Gang of Four. I was all rocked out by the time the old fellas came on stage. They were loud, fast, and catchy. I really don't get all the hate at PF and Stylus and so on.

Hillary Brown (Hillary Brown), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 20:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Spice Girls' enduring influence being pondered over on Poptimists.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 20 January 2006 16:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Disney Channel just premiered the movie "High School Musical." Anyone serious about this thread should probably see it because:
1. It's directed by Kenny Ortega, so the dancing is pretty good.
2. The songs are adorable, even if the singers are a bit thin-of-voice.
3. It verges into self-parody A LOT, even faux-Broadway and faux-Latin songs by The Bad Guys (evil brother and sister team who want to ruin Our Protagonists' chances of being in the musical).
4. It will run approximately 100 times this year for free, and will therefore have a HUGE influence on all American pre-teens and jr. high school students.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 21 January 2006 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

That was a long-ass haiku...

Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Saturday, 21 January 2006 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link

count my syllables
once again brian my son
you'll see what I did

Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 21 January 2006 18:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Riff Raff interview with Morningwood.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 22 January 2006 21:50 (eighteen years ago) link


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