Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

According to Wikipedia, "No Cars Go" was the Arcade Fire's last single (released in August). Maybe that will do well?

I'm slightly worried about M.I.A. Kala has, like, four songs that should place high ("Paper Planes," "Bird Flu," "Jimmy" and "Boyz) but won't because of vote-splitting.

single is nothing special on its own. (Ie: It becomes representative of the album.) There are some exceptions, of course, Feist's 1,2,3,4 and The National's Fake Empire.

Why the National song? I mean, "1,2,3,4" is an actual hit; how is the National one more than just another track on Paste magazine's album of the year?

Incidentally, my favorite Vampire Weekend song (believe it or not, I've spent enough time with the advance of their album to have one) is "Walcott," which seems to be more about Cape Cod (actually about leaving Cape Cod) than "Cape Cod Kwassa Kwassa," which I gather from things I've read is their "single." (Their track that sounds the most like the Police, for whatever it's worth, is "The Kids Don't Stand a Chance" -- specifically, it starts out like "Walking On The Moon" then turns into a bassline that could have been on Zenyatta Mondatta, but when the guy starts singing more it turns into solo Sting and I don't like it anymore. In general, the South African rhythm type stuff they try is sort of engaging, for an indie rock band, but the singer's a blank bore. He might even be more bearable if he was more twee, or something.)

(In eternal indie tradition, though, their melodies -- especially the one in "Walcott" -- can be pretty.)

Jaymc: fwiw I didn't even know of "With Every Heartbeat"'s existence until I saw it on last year's Stylus list. I'll be voting for it this year. I definitely think it has a chance.

Thinking Dude N Nem will place in the top ten is wishful thinking of the highest order. If, judging by the fact that "Watch My Feet" is my favorite single of this year and "Tell Me When to Go" was my favorite single of last year, those two songs appeal to the same people, then "Watch My Feet" will place just outside the top forty as E-40 did last year, and "Tell Me When to Go" had the advantage of having been an actual hit.

Not even "Overpowered"? I much prefer Roisin's stuffiness to Sophie's (at least Roisin I can put on in the background -- she's the Paramore to Sophie's Avril).

I do need to listen to "Overpowered" again. And "Stuffy" Ellis Bextor is about right--I don't love her, but a few of her tunes are nice (Murphy's are maybe less obvious, but perhaps they'll sink in more when I listen again).

I'm slightly worried about M.I.A. Kala has, like, four songs that should place high ("Paper Planes," "Bird Flu," "Jimmy" and "Boyz) but won't because of vote-splitting.

I can't figure out which of these would place highest--"Bird Flu," I assume? Didn't know "Paper Planes" was a single (it feels more like a great album track to me). Too bad she didn't release "$20."

Thinking Dude N Nem will place in the top ten is wishful thinking of the highest order.

You've all convinced me, seriously! This was a case of me confusing a few over-the-top blog raves for something resembling reality, a mistake I've made a bunch of times in the past also.

Yeah, I don't consider the Paramore comparison a ringing endorsement (of Roisin or Paramore), just that I'd rather spend about an hour in a room with it. Or have it walk with me while I'm getting groceries. But I'm also underselling the Paramore album a little, which is pretty good for people who like that sorta thing. (Jimmy Draper thought I might have been kidding when I said that Flyleaf is much much better.)

Flyleaf is one of the more awful things I've heard.

I think "Jimmy" will place highest, followed by "Boyz." "Jimmy" had a good, sorta internet-fad-friendly video and they were really pushing "Boyz" as a single, whereas "Bird Flu" was just sort of more like the first MIA track in a while. ("Paper Planes" has probably gotten the most blogtalk, but I don't think it's actually a single.)

xpost I really like it! Insane Christian guilt translated into pretty good grungy emo. Paramore, meanwhile, take "Sk8er Boi" seriously.

I like "Misery Business" quite a bit, but haven't heard their other stuff. I actually gave a Flyleaf a 0 when they came up on the Stylus Jukebox. Something about how excited I was to have Lilith Fair crossed with nu-metal.

"Paper Planes" is a single...There's even a remix with Bun B and Rich Boy (and another one with Afrikan Boy, I think)

Why the National song? I mean, "1,2,3,4" is an actual hit; how is the National one more than just another track on Paste magazine's album of the year?

Well, I don't know if it's a hit or not, but I love 'Fake Empire' and I'm really not into anything else on the album.

My bad, "Paper Planes" is the third single after "Boyz" and "Jimmy" -- apparently "Bird Flu" was never released as a single, tho.

pretty sure my favorite thing on Kala (which i'm still iffy on as a whole despite adoring Arular) is "XR2," which was sort of a fake single at the beginning of the year, wasn't it?

some teen/pop singles/songs i might conceivably vote for (or, in the case of the songs, at least include on my list, which is sort of more what i care about anyway. damn those deadlines are early this year.):

Skye Sweetnam, "Music Is My Boyfriend" - pretty much slays. the rest of the album unfortunately not nearly as much, though "Ghosts" may well make it onto a round-up mix.

Veronicas, "Untouched" - the second single, way better than the first, though "This Is How it Feels" and "This Love" are better still.

Sugababes, "About You Now" - definitely weird that it's the Sugababes doing a "Since You Been Gone" retread - though with opposite lyrics - several years too late to be fashionable (when they're usually quite on the pulse.) But you gotta love a good SUBG retread, regardless. If "Change" is a single (maybe?) it's a pretty smashing ballad.

Roisin Murphy, "Let Me Know" - I prefer vastly to "Overpowered," which doesn't seem that exciting to me beyond the admittedly awesome arpeggiator line. really like the album track "Movie Star" too, though i guess it's fairly plain. Along similar lines, Tracey Thorn (whose album I love) released several cracking singles, of which "It's All True" is probably the most perfect (though not the most interesting.)

Amy Diamond, "Stay My Baby" (better than "Is It Love")
Linda Sundblad, "Lose You" (technically '06? probably in my top 5.)
Lauryn Hill, "Lose Myself" (was this a single?)
Bertine Zetlitz, "Ashamed" - from her forthcoming greatest hits; it's on her myspace now. really really nice (no surprise there.)
Avril Lavigne, "Hot" (the third single. formulaic of course but it was my favorite album track. Lil Mama's "Girlfriend" is probably in my top 10.)
Kat McPhee, "Love Story" (possibly "Over It" too)
Rihanna, "Don't Stop The Music" (apparently "Breakin' Dishes" will be released in January - sweet.)

Britney and Hilary and Aly + AJ probably made the best teenpop albums this year, along with the Veronicas maybe, but for the most part none of their best tracks have been singles (yet) (except for Hilary's "Play With Fire" which was a single last year.)

I'm pretty annoyed about all of these contenders from albums that were released last year - at least, albums that I heard last year - and so I don't want to even entertain the thought of listing them. On the other hand there's some great stuff that's technically late '06 that I just heard and would theoretically want to list...

Jordin Sparks songs I like quite a bit include "One Step at a Time" and "See My Side" (the Robyn co-write); don't care much for the single(s) but "Shy Boy" is a Blackout reject that I recommend for fans of that album to investigate.

interested parties can see my blawg for further musings on the sparks album which eventually turned into a
fairly exhaustive investigation of the songwriting/production credits on recent dance-pop/teen-pop albums and some reflections/questions along those lines

re: Nickelback's "Rock Star" being potentially bettered by a Kid Rock version of same ... well, I haven't heard that, but R. Kelly's album has a track with Ludacris and Kid Rock entitled "Rock Star," which is pretty great. (as is the whole album.)

apparently "Bird Flu" was never released as a single, tho.

But doesn't its appearing all over the web--including the video itself being highlighted right on M.I.A.'s website--sort of count these days as a "single release"? Also, wasn't "Hit That" a single of sorts? I much much prefer it to "Boys" anyway.

According to another thread, Amy Winehouse topped Time magazine's single AND album best-of. I'll be really surprised if "Rehab" isn't Top 3 in either (or both) Idolator or P&J.

"Released as a single" is becoming a meaningless phrase now, though maybe not as much in the UK. <i>Billboard</i>, over on the side of their singles charts, has a "Hot Singles Sales" you can click on if you notice it and want to. Chubby Checker went top ten on it this year, I kid you not, with a song that never made the Hot 100.

Wow, I've been looking at singles charts at Billboard.com for 2-3 yrs now and have never noticed that--what a bizarre selection. Not surprisingly, there's a lot of Christmas stuff in there now, but also several things (in fact, I'd say it's dominated) by artists I've never even heard of. and there's this new entry at #10: Puscifer, "Cuntry Boner." I know singles sales are now kind of meaningless, but wouldn't something like that still have to sell a fair deal to make top 10?

fair deal few hundred copies

I assume that by "Hot Singles Sales" Billboard means sales of physical copies only, no Internets, since otherwise Flo Rida, Timbo, Alicia et al. would be in the Top Ten and they're not. However, Billboard's page where they explain methodology doesn't include this crucial bit of information, implying that all sales charts include downloads.

Kate Gnash in the top five, by the way.

Wow. I was just reading a bunch of posts I made earlier this year on this forum, and I was so wrong about so many of them. I said I didn't like Umbrella (I love it now), I said that I didn't like Insomniatic (It's my favorite album of the year now), I said that I loved Avril's Girlfriend (It didn't even make my top 10. It's #11).

By the way, I have actually seen a physical as-sold-in-stores (and not just Walmart or Target) copy of Insomniatic in the local library and it contains "Blush." I cannot imagine why that song was deleted from the iTunes version. Was it also deleted from later pressings of the physical album? Who's the publicist one would ask these questions of?

Frank, Aly & AJ's publicist is Lillian Matulic at Hollywood Records, lillian dot matulic at disney dot com. I've got an email from her dated June 25 that says "by mistake, a cut was included on my advance that will not be available on this album. It's called 'Blush'. We are saving it for their deluxe package to be released later." But I have no idea whether something may have changed between now and then. (I actually don't think it's entirely unheard of, though, for iTunes versions of albums to have slightly different track listings -- even, in certain occasions, fewer tracks -- than physical versions, which of course, by now, thanks to exclusives at places like Walmart and Target, are not always uniform, either. For example, I'm fairly sure the iTunes version of either the "life" or "death" version of Good Charlotte's "Chronicles of Life and Death" has one track missing. And one of the other versions has an extra track unavailable elsewhere. Or something like that. Who can keep track anymore?) (The specifics were in Billboard's Retail Track column by Ed Christman a few weeks ago, in the course of a column mainly about Radiohead, but I don't have that issue handy right this second.)

And meanwhile, yes, the Hot Singles Sales Chart in Billboard tracks Soundscan sales of (now nearly extinct) physical singles in the U.S. (one recent week had Kate Nash's "Foundations" at #4, the Osborne Brothers' "Rocky Top" at #15, and Stevie Nicks's "Stand Back" at #25, but don't ask me why. This week, "My Hometown"/"Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town" by Bruce Springsteen is at #17.) There is also a Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Singles Sales chart that tracks physical sales and frequently contains plenty of obscure independent-label regional hits. Not sure why they're not referenced on that methodology page (which I'd actually never looked at before, myself.)

First thoughts on a couple of new acquisitions:

Skye Sweetnam Sound Soldier: The two songs by rock guy Tim Armstrong are poppier and catchier than the nine by pop people The Matrix, whose songs are fairly tuneful themselves but Skye keeps interrupting the tunes with chants and feistiness. The feistiness works well on "Music Is My Boyfriend," is a distraction everywhere else. Delete a couple of hairballs ("Boy Hunter" and "Baby Doll Gone Wrong") and this is likable enough, but not even as good as the Avril album I was hating upthread. I'm not hating this, since Skye is basically lovable - girl's got a lot of promise, but it's still mostly promise. Worth searching out the Armstrong tracks ("Ghosts" and "Let's Get Movin' Into Action," and also Armstrong's even better version of the latter, "Into Action," with Skye on background).

Fall Out Boy Infinity On High: I like "The Take Over," "Arm's Race," and "Mmrs" as much as the next guy. (Checks with the next guy: "How much do you like these?" "As much as you do.") Problem is that the massive-gyrating-gelatin sound that works well on those three is monolithically dense and dull on most of the others. Stump's large swoops and passionate falsetto make the difficult seem difficult. Maybe there's a happy medium between Gary Allan's easiness that I was uneasy with yesterday over on the country thread and this guy's huffing and puffing. (Consults with happy medium, who perceives much joy resonating among the spirits of the departed and who also claims to prefer widows to divorcées (the former being better for business, no doubt).)

Probably not the same sort of easygoingness (at all) but emo-wise I think that MCR makes the difficult seem...I dunno, difficult-in-quotation marks. Like Mike Patton -- vocal dexterity with capital VD (huh). Except they strain and strain and out pops pop, instead of strained-pop (which I tend to like anyway). Whereas with FOB I get more strain than I get pop? Not that the pop's not there, just that I can't get past the strain. I dunno, this metaphor is wheezing harder than a Fall Out Boy track but there's something really ugly and congealed about Fall Out Boy's sound that doesn't seem to apply to MCR even when they're GOING for ugly. Which is also why I don't totally connect with them, either, with Tim Burton-style DEATH (too cute) -- at least Mike Patton is ugly when he wants to be, which is maybe too often but it's at least genuinely ugly. MCR is disingenuously ugly when it could be just tuneful (except then they might be McFly's "Transylvania") and FOB is disingenuously tuneful when it's mostly ugly. But those are only my impressions from this past year, I still don't know MCR (except "Helena," which I remember liking but don't really remember) prior to like 2006.

I'm gonna go to bat for emo here (particularly Fall Out Boy and MCR). I don't think the 'difficultness' of their music is a bad thing. In fact, I think it's integral to their music. They are thematically discussing issues of tension and trying to find a way through tough spots. But where teenpop finds a way through ease and lyrical searching, emo is a steamroller. Thematically ("So darken your clothes / Or strike a violent pose / Maybe they'll leave you alone, but not me!" or "This ain't a scene, it's a GODDAMN arms race") and also musically. Teenpop is looking for a way out. Emo is making one. Which is why they frequently come off as violent, angry, or misogynistic. There isn't time for subtleties. (dabug, I don't see this as ugly, or intentionally ugly - maybe incidentally so.)

I mean ugly in a much more visceral sense -- I think that the Fall Out Boy album sounds turgid and gross when it means to sound bright 'n' bouncy (regardless of what they're saying, since I haven't paid any attention to that anyway), like their entire album is swamped with...I dunno, some kind of sludge. Not like it's an intended effect, it just sounds like someone poured molasses over all their songs. It irritates me, in the way that people have described compression (or whatever) irritating them.

Re: MCR, I just think that they're playing death dress-up, about as "dark" and as "difficult" as the Rocky Horror Picture Show. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing (and somehow they usually avoid camp in the process, which is kind of weird), but I certainly don't take them seriously. The only time I've ever taken them seriously, meaning thought about what a song might mean (or even remember any lyrics) ("Teenagers") is when I get the least sense that they have any idea whatsoever what it is they're really on about.

If you're problem is that you think they're going for bright n' bouncy, but it turns out turgid and sludgy, maybe your expectations are off. Genre conventions are closer to the latter than the former. They aren't a pop-punk band after all (like All American Rejects, or Bowling for Soup, or Boys Like Girls). They are a screamo/emo derivation. I don't think they are supposed to sound cheery.

The only time I've ever taken them seriously, meaning thought about what a song might mean (or even remember any lyrics) ("Teenagers") is when I get the least sense that they have any idea whatsoever what it is they're really on about.

Did Nirvana sound on Smells Like Teen Spirit like they had any idea what it is they were really on about? (I think the comparison is apt - MCR obviously cribbed a lot of the music video visuals from Nirvana, and there is a similar angst.)

you are a delight.

xp I have no use for either of those bands, or at least for a single song I've ever heard by either of them, which isn't to say that I might not someday be persuaded otherwise. (Actually, I thought the couple Panic at the Disco songs I heard last year were more entertaining than anything I've ever heard by either Fall Out Boy or My Chemical Romance -- not that I was even inspired to go seek out the rest of PatD's album, either.) Anyway, I just say that as a lead-in to saying that by far my favorite Hot Topic teenygoth album of the year (really, possibly my two favorite Hot Topic teenygoth albums of the past three years) came from the Birthday Massacre, whose album covers consistently seem to suggest they think purple bunnies and trick-or-treating are both scary and cute, and whose music is more cute than scary and really does pull off the bright n bouncy within turgid n sludgy trick. The fact that they sound like sweet like Book of Love (and maybe Missing Persons or Berlin, for all I know) used to and take melodies from "Crimson and Clover" (in "Movies") definitely does not hurt. Other favorite toons on Walking With Strangers include but are certainly not limited to "Goodnight" and "Falling Down," and they manage to get decent post-industrial stomp going in "Redstars" and "Looking Glass." Here they are:

http://www.myspace.com/thebirthdaymassacre

I also have a bit of a soft spot for Mindless Self Indulgence, if they count. Not that they're easy to keep up with (haven't heard a whole album by them in a few years, though their singles keep scoring on Billboard's 12-inch dance sales chart, also physical product based btw), and not sure how they fit into this discussion. They are certainly not humorless. (I guess part of my problem with Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance is my knee-jerk aversion to "rock where I can't hear any rocking in it." Though maybe I'd actually hear some, if I took more time. I probably still wouldn't like their singers, though.)

You're right. They do have REALLY precious covers. :)

Wow. I'm listening to "Kill the Lights" off the new album. Chuck, this is gorgeous stuff.

The fact that they sound like sweet like Book of Love (and maybe Missing Persons or Berlin, for all I know) used to and take melodies from "Crimson and Clover" (in "Movies") definitely does not hurt...

Will definitely check this out. Book of Love are without question my favourite 80s/90s band I didn't pay nearly enough attention to at the time.

Words cannot express how much I loathe that "Arms Race" song, though. (MCR, from what I've heard, are much, much better, though still not nearly good enough).

Another sort of likeminded band I keep trying to get into but who go right past me: the Hives. Anyone here recommend something by them that doesn't sound so, I don't know, boxed in or monolithic? Or maybe that's the entire point of them? (It has to be more than the boxed-in or monolithic quality that bugs me about them, because there are lots of things I could describe that way which I do like... Maybe it's the combination of sounding boxed-in + the irritating scrape of the vocals?)

Did you dislike (or hear) "Hate to Say I Told You So"? It's the only track they've done that I can actually distinguish from their other tracks.

ACtually, that one's kind of catchy, I admit. Though I hate the gurgle that ends each chorus.

I mean, the vocal gurgle/tick/whatever you want to call it (I think I need to listen to it again to see if this makes any sense).

I like the Hives fine! (At least partially because I can hear rocking in their rock.) And their new album might actually be the best one I've heard by them. Here's the review I wrote for Billboard:

THE HIVES
The Black and White Album

Seven years after breaking worldwide out of Sweden’s eternal garage-revival scene, this color-coordinated quintet have somehow managed their liveliest, most playable album. Its cartoon-tuneful energy pogos all over the place: An opening volley blowing stuff up (“Tick Tick Boom”), an expert AC/DC homage about being broke (“Square One Here I Come”), equestrian Pixies new wave (“Giddy Up!”), 1966 frat-rock party voices, Motown basslines under laughs and cackles and yelps. Howlin’ Pelle Almqvist has an awesome knack for repeating simple declarative mantras into hooks: “I was right all along,” “I can’t go on and I gotta get goin’,” “Whatcha gonna do? Here he comes for you,” “No job! No skills! No money! No nothing!” And when tempos occasionally downshift (Eric Burdon baritone verses in “Won’t Be Long”; creepy crawly keyboards in “Puppet On A String,” even a robotically falsettoed Prince-circa-“Kiss” attempt in the Pharrell-helmed “T.H.E.H.I.V.E.S.”), the fun still doesn’t drain away. C.E.

I do want to hear this now. I clearly haven't given them a fair shake.

"Tick Tick Boom" is the only Hives song I've heard in about six years (not counting a background listen when their album was streamed several months ago on AOL Music), so if they're only repeating the same song, it's a good one, because that one's a blast (though rather weightless, as blasts go).

Frank, I actually mailed you my extra copy of the Hives CD last week (along with my extra copy of Little Big Town, Hurricane Chris, and a couple other stray things.) Watch your PO Box...

Miley Cyrus's "See You Again" is up to 933 spins on Top 40 radio, which isn't tremendous but is significant and beats any recent Disney product that I can think of other than Plain White T's. Is in the top ten on WHTZ in New York.

But Ashlee's "Outta My Head" only got nine Top 40 spins in the last six days. I told you radio wouldn't touch it. Its only hope is massive download action convincing radio guys to give it a chance; or if/when a video appears, strong play on TRL and Launch Yahoo and AOL Music.

Britney's "Piece Of Me" jumps to 2,132 spins, possibly stimulated by the new video, in which she seems awake and happy. (OK, is the video released or just being "previewed" on selected sites (and all over YouTube)? I'm understanding release schedules less and less these days.)

Taylor Swift's "Teardrops On My Guitar" up to 4800 spins (which puts her at number 11 on mainstream radio); not sure which version is getting the top 40 play: there's the original and there's a new version with added harmonies and guitars (though same amount of teardrops), which is what's getting played on Disney.

Ashley Tisdale's "He Said, She Said" up to 881 spins on mainstream Top 40. I hope it goes higher but I'm afraid it's topping out. Minor play in New York and Philly, not getting any other major markets.

Lip Gloss placed on PFM's singles list (#27). Umbrella hit #5. The top 4 are predictable indie choices (LCD, Battles, Panda Bear + M.I.A.).

On a cooler note, Christgau's list (http://www.slate.com/id/2179977/entry/2180085/) has Piece of Me at #2. Every time I hear the song, it seems better and better to me. My friends and I have started blasting it, or singing it, whenever we see each other.

Best part from Christgau's article: Let's get this party started quickly. Journey sucks. They sucked in 1981, they'll suck in 2033, and they suck now. Who gives a fuck what Tony Soprano thinks?

But Toto's on my list.

"Africa" was, like, everywhere this year, wasn't it? Well, it was on the JoJo song as well as a Mims remix I heard (neither of which I loved, but both did make me hear how gorgeous the original is--totally a dead ringer for MJ's "Human Nature," which makes sense given the band is essentially the same, no?). Someone on facebook pointed me to another hip-hop version of "Africa," but I think it was a bit older and I forget now who it was.

I actually liked this from Xgau's essay:

naming your favorite albums of the year before the year is even over is impossible by definition. I really need till Feb. 1 to get the year under my belt.

But with pop-culture news cycles sped up beyond anything that anybody with any sense (or who doesn't get paid for it) would want to keep up with, those days are long gone -- Scores of publications have published best-of-the-year lists already, and Pazz & Jop and Idolator ballots are both due this week, which basically means year-end music (inasumuch as it exists anymore, given slimmed December release schedules) gets the shaft unless it hits you right away; either that, or you vote for albums without actually having had time to live with them (just like how now it's mandated you review them everywhere without living with them first.) (Not that I'd expect my ballot -- which I already filed this weekend -- to change in the next few weeks. But then, I never do. And if I have three more weeks, it always changes anyway.)