Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

judgment call. won't say you're wrong.

I would argue that Graduation as a package was way less confessional and more roleplaying (and also a good bit more weighted towards the upbeat and/or nonserious) and 808s was way more emotionally monochromatic. You could put both of those albums together and cover MBDTF, but neither of them individually covers the same spectrum.

yeah i mean, he already made me love a song where he compares the paparazzi to nazis, if the toxic sentiment is overpowering the music more now than it was then, maybe that just means the beats ain't that hot anymore (xpost)

... or maybe there's way more toxic sentiment? There's no corresponding "Good life" or "Drunk and Hot Girls" on the new album to offset the bitterness of "Flashing Lights".

Finally, an album that contains all of Kanye's worst qualities.

I wouldn't say ambition = unexpected, but I feel like Late Registration, for instance, really deliberately upped the ante of "this is how big and eventful a rap album can be" whereas this, 3 albums later, feels like Late Registration 2k10 with slightly updated sounds and perspectives, which doesn't feel that ambitious to me, just sounds like just about the only kind of album Kanye can make or wants to make.

― Prince SBanBan (some dude), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:16 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

late registration 2k10?? where is the 'gold digger'? where's the 'drive slow'? i dunno, they feel like extremely different records to me. "We Major" comes closest, but late reg felt like way less of an event rap album

eh, that wasn't my recollection at the time, or rather it might be more accurate to say that Late Registration was the event rap album for pop fans since I'd kind of divorced myself from hip-hop fandom almost completely by that point

I would argue that Graduation as a package was way less confessional and more roleplaying

yeah graduation was def a more varied album - not so overwhelmingly self-absorbed - but i think "homecoming", "can't tell me nothing" and "everything i am" are all pretty confessional; and i don't think anything on MBDTF pushes the confessional form that much further than those songs and 808s. kanye's confessing stuff he's already told us, basically.

also, the beats on graduation really add to the confessional feel of it - my fav section of it is the middle, "can't tell me nothing" through to "flashing lights", and there's this real lurching sense of slightly cokey wrongness about the beats, these dark shimmering things, and you actually do feel like you're getting sucked into the weird bubble kanye the celebrity lives in.

if the argument is that MBDTF is completely different to its predecessors because it LACKS the upbeat pop songs that previously leavened kanye's self-absorption, i guess i agree, but that's kind of...regression. or just disappearing down a not very interesting rabbithole, as i think a hoy hoy said way earlier.

i think "homecoming", "can't tell me nothing" and "everything i am" are all pretty confessional; and i don't think anything on MBDTF pushes the confessional form that much further than those songs and 808s. kanye's confessing stuff he's already told us, basically.

Yep. I don't mind retreads but with MBDTF I feel like Kanye has even lost the knack for articulating what he's already told us. He's like a drunk friend telling a long-told joke in a rambling, incoherent manner.

*told = oft

but i think "homecoming", "can't tell me nothing" and "everything i am" are all pretty confessional

man all three of these crush anything on this record

songs on Late Registration that i feel set some kind of precedent for MBDTF by being dark or esoteric or ornate or 'weird' in some way or another: Crack Music, My Way Home, Roses, Bring Me Down, Addiction, We Major, Celebration

ffs, no one is saying "this album is COMPLETELY different", or at least I'm not

In fact, I am pretty explicitly bending over backwards pointing out all of the things that are the same along with all of the things that are different

perhaps maybe come out of your preconceived notion of what you imagine everyone is saying about this album and read what I'm ACTUALLY saying?

Crack Music, My Way Home, Roses, Bring Me Down, Addiction, We Major, Celebration

― Prince SBanBan (some dude), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:52 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

half of these are the worst songs on the album

eh, that wasn't my recollection at the time, or rather it might be more accurate to say that Late Registration was the event rap album for pop fans since I'd kind of divorced myself from hip-hop fandom almost completely by that point

― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:45 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wasnt it more the breakthrough for pop fans?

and much worse than anything on dark twisted fantasy

i can't tell who you're talking to now. me? deej? (xpost to DJP)

Crack Music, My Way Home, Roses, Bring Me Down, Addiction, We Major, Celebration

― Prince SBanBan (some dude), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:52 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

yah these are good forerunners for this new, very different record

al hes talking to you

MBDTF isn't more confessional than kanye's been in the past, if anything slightly less, in that he's talking more in generalities, less about anything identifiably specific. but it nonetheless communicates a great deal about his/"the narrator's" psychology and lifestyle. i'd argue that it's more fractured and emotionally transparent than anything he's done in the past (808's comes close), but also less direct, less relatable.

and the music here, again, adds to that. it's often garish, bloated and overlayered in ways that should be off-putting but somehow (mostly) work, at least manage to entertain and to hold my attention. the music tells the story as much as the words, of this profoundly unhappy superman locked away in a hideous gilded dungeon of his own making.

Crack Music, My Way Home, Roses, Bring Me Down, Addiction, We Major, Celebration

― Prince SBanBan (some dude), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:52 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

half of these are the worst songs on the album

haha i think most of these are the best on the album! (not "addiction", "my way home" or "celebration" really, but i love the others.)

well, my list of LR songs was in response to deej asking where the "Gold Digger" or "Drive Slow" is on the new album (to the latter i might say "Devil" since it has a soul beat, brooding atmosphere, and southern guest rapper, but that feels like a stretch). i guess i should've quoted deej but i wasn't responding to anything DJP had said at all.

if the argument is that MBDTF is completely different to its predecessors because it LACKS the upbeat pop songs that previously leavened kanye's self-absorption, i guess i agree, but that's kind of...regression.

― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:50 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

I don't mind retreads but with MBDTF I feel like Kanye has even lost the knack for articulating what he's already told us. He's like a drunk friend telling a long-told joke in a rambling, incoherent manner.

― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:50 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

much as a i like the record, both lex and alfred at least partially OTM here (though lex characteristically overstates things by at least 200% - no one's pinning this album's importance on the lack of upbeat pop songs).

i never said the album is "completely different" either -- i said that obv there were precedents for his sound, but as we keep articulating, that doesn't make this record a 'stylistic rehash' & i think it's been said pretty convincingly by myself, dan, contenderizer, etc

yeah i mean lex is otm that the songs here are often worse -- no one is arguing w/ him about that, though

late registration was certainly an event record in pop/generalist circles. not predestined for "importance" like people seem to think MBDTF is, but critically received as a Very Big Deal. perhaps less so in rap circles? i wouldn't know...

'golddigger' was his 'hard knock life' giant crossover moment. he wasnt a pop star going into late reg the way he is going into this one, his life wasnt as public, and these albums are drastically different as a result

http://social.entertainment.msn.com/music/blogs/expert-witness-blog.aspx

Oh please not again: the A's for the Roots and Tricky induce vertigo.

I was talking to Lex, who is the person who attempted to reintroduce "completely different" into the argument when everyone is explicitly saying that it ISN'T completely different, but that doesn't automagically make it the worst most unforgivable album ever created

like, I understand wanting to be a tastemaker and all but after a while it's best for your sanity to let go

haha when did Kanye ever say he's more talented than Nas and who in their right mind would agree with him?

me

me too

OK nutjobs, can you work on answering the first part of that question instead?

i have no idea why or how nas was even brought up

the how part is easier to explain

and the music here, again, adds to that. it's often garish, bloated and overlayered in ways that should be off-putting but somehow (mostly) work, at least manage to entertain and to hold my attention. the music tells the story as much as the words, of this profoundly unhappy superman locked away in a hideous gilded dungeon of his own making.

― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, November 30, 2010 2:00 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This is a really solid way to sum up both the appeal and revulsion that this album is causing. I'd say it's the perfect album for a culture that loves to entertain itself with slow motion car wrecks.

Is it just me or is the chorus of "Hell of a Life" taken from Sabbath's "Iron Man"?

check yr liner notes

that chorus is so terrible, i might actually like the song if not for that

can someone quickly and in under 30 words summarize precisely what it is that any of you are arguing about anymore?

noone's really been arguing for one or two dozen posts now, maybe we can keep it that way

hey why dont you go fuck yrself

why i oughta

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/files/2008/10/700px-ndleprechaunsvg.png

this thread never quits

it's so appropriate that this thread is one in which no one will ever shut up

lex .... otm!

haha