2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

it was not

gabbneb, you're off your game today.

i'm the one who's right about Rockefeller, bro

On WNYC this morning they said the last VP candidate who hadn't met a foreign head of state was Spiro Agnew, though he may actually have had meetings with some fairly high-level people from foreign governments. And going back to the beginning of the 20th Century, they couldn't name a VP who had less foreign policy experience than Agnew. Sarah Palin-level inexperience is pretty much unprecedented in modern times.

its okay, McCain predates modern times anyway

may actually have had meetings with some fairly high-level people from foreign governments.

probably applies to Palin wrt to Canadian pipecock

xp rimshot.wav

if it is Agnew, then the ABC article is incorrect that Palin would be the first in 32 years, as Agnew resigned in '73. If the article is correct, then it would seem to be Rockefeller, who left office precisely 32 years before she would take office, and who certainly had a foreign affairs record, but held positions that would not necessarily have involved meeting with foreign heads of state, as they seem too junior or advisory. this is also what the ABC article implies, by listing the meetings held by every VP subsequent to Rockefeller. if you want, you can read the article to imply that the last was Mondale by finding a distinction between the foreign "leaders" it says he met and foreign "heads of state," but that's reading it within an inch of its life.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/09/12/historical_quote_of_the_day.html

awesome

It's not Rockefeller:
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=2393

nice one, gabb

Unless, of course, those Latin American "leaders" that Rockefeller met with were not in fact heads of state.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3164/2545842739_f7f868d8ff.jpg

Latin American "leaders"

http://www.unafuente.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/pablo-escobar.jpg

everyone knows those "handmade" signs are campaign generated, right?

(it's most certainly true of O as well)

googling indicates he met with at least one head of state. so the ABC article is wrong, unless Mondale had not met with a head of state.

I am kinda surprised that Dems haven't hit McCain harder about the flip-flopping thing - on torture, on abortion, on campaign finance reform, on so many issues he's pandered to the right to get this nomination; McCain is by far the more craven power-mad one in this election.

i know it's an outright lie and gotcha is really fun, but not having 1x clue about what the Bush Doctrine is or having any opinion on it is way way way way worse imo.

eyes on the prize guys.

Wednesday, May 14, 1969 New York Gov. Nelson Rockefeller confers with Mexican President Gustavo Diaz Ordaz during his fact-finding tour of Latin America

http://www.newspaperarchive.com/LandingPage.aspx?type=glp&search=%22nelson%20rockefeller%22%20%22gustavo%20diaz%22%201969&img=\na0016678983243138962_clean.html

OK, I don't know why those links don't work.

not having 1x clue about what the Bush Doctrine is or having any opinion on it is way way way way worse imo.

we can certainly spin this, but i don't think it's clear that this was in fact the case

am kinda surprised that Dems haven't hit McCain harder about the flip-flopping thing

I expect to see more of this as the race enters the home stretch. Supposedly the Axelrod-Plouffe master plan calls for steadily ratcheting up the intensity level of the attacks on McCain into the final weeks.

i think it's completely clear.

besides, the GOP has never waited for clarity and consensus-reality before hitting out on one thing or another -- like establishing the Bush Doctrine, for instance

per the gibson interview, palin sure hates blinking. i think we can use this.

bush himself tried to fudge the totally unprovoked war against iraq as just keeping with the old "imminent threat" rationale, so it's not that weird that palin wouldn't make a distinction.

plus it was biden and clinton who convinced NATO to change the rules of the game insofar as bombing other sovereign nations went. bush obviously went way farther than they went in kosovo, plus bush didn't really have NATO support, but the doctrine of invasion given (x) or (y) "imminent" factors (genocide, wmd, etc) got its first footholds of acceptance under democratic leadership.

I think that what you see emerging as the world has changed is that a Kerry administration would reflect a willingness to use force unilaterally if one of several conditions pertained: One, international conventions were being violated, they affected American interests and the international community would not step up to the ball. Case in point -- took me a while, and I think he would tell you this if you asked him, to convince Clinton to use force in Kosovo.

-- Joe Biden, summer 2004

can't send an e-mail isn't really a kicker is it?

can't do jumping jacks
can't wear a haircut with bangs
can't name more than 11 cable channels

538 has mccain over obama in electoral votes for the first time today

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/12/mccain-gets-grilled-on-the-view/

Two of those aren't really his fault. Not knowing how to send a damn e-mail isn't a physical handicap.

it's just that his keyboard is at eye level

http://www.kenschaefer.com/spyder/pics/StencilUpload/zing.jpg

538 has mccain over obama in electoral votes for the first time today

― akm, Friday, September 12, 2008 1:35 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yesterday

Walters went on to press Palin's reformist credentials, noting McCain has served in Washington for more than two decades and asking repeatedly, "who's she going to reform, you?"

Awesome.

good zing but still feeling :-/ about mccain polling

538 has mccain over obama in electoral votes for the first time today

this shouldn't even be theoretically possible

I mean Jesus Christ

im telling you, i lived in ohio for 4 yrs. those dudes sell confed flags at the state fair as if they were entirely unaware that ohio isnt in the south. some racisty shit goes down there, and palin would have huge appeal

this shouldn't even be theoretically possible

It looks like the site has Colorado red now. Iowa and New Mexico aren't enough to stem the tide.

My 80 yr. old grandma is a Dem election-watcher in rural Ohio and got called a "n****r-lover" by my great-uncle for supporting Obama. Other relatives I have there are some of the only people I know who are truly undecided voters, it's pretty crazy.

The part where Josh Marshall pops up and gives the facts is pretty lame, but I hope the Obama campaign is compiling all of McCain's blatant lies for a hard-hitting "McCain is a liar, just like Bush" ad in October.

Americans racist shockah

i don't think the problem is limited to ohio.

srsly guys elections are like basketball games, when its this close only the last 2 minutes matter

The part where Josh Marshall pops up and gives the facts is pretty lame

You'd rather they hire Crazy Eddie?

this shouldn't even be theoretically possible

but it's theocratically possible, amirite?

obama is better at basketball!

good thinking ev

actually its pretty interesting how the racial dynamic has figured into this election - nobody wants to talk about it, and no one wants to accuse anyone of being racist or even talk about the possibility that maybe people won't vote for Obama because they are racist; racism in America has been shamed into the closet over the lost couple decades, its something next to no one will admit to anymore. So even though it should be abundantly clear that swathes of the country are jittery about Obama almost solely because he's a black man it gets coded into these more subtle variations (a la "Obama has trouble connecting with white lower-income voters" etc.)

srsly guys elections are like basketball games, when its this close only the last 2 minutes matter

― ♠♣♥♦¾ (max), Friday, September 12, 2008 2:16 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is otm