Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

I'll take wanda jackson over any kanye record

― tween-justin-bieber-riot-of-09-pandemonium-arrests-terror+tweeting (Edward III), Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:52 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

OTM

gaga = madonna works on the image-as-story thing, right?

yeah but the actual images they employ are (have become) pretty different - gaga's way more rococo/fantastical/surrealist and goes out of her way to erase any lingering trace of girl-next-door; madonna retained that throughout many of her image changes and played with pre-existing archetypes a lot more

then you've got gaga as someone who's obv overflowing with raw talent in terms of singing and songwriting, versus madonna who willed herself to overcome her limitations there etc etc

haha xps

I tend to think Madonna eased into her visual mastery. She was a club/disco artist first.

anyway i thot gaga just ripped roisin murphy

I don't think Gaga/Madonna is THAT lazy, because Gaga is almost certainly actively trying to be this generation's Madonna. That might just be because the shadow that Madonna casts over female mainstream pop is larger than that of even Jacko and Prince. Partly because Jacko and Prince are in a more crowded room full of male icons whereas Madonna is out on her own.

Xpost - the actual images they employ are irrelevant here given I expect Gaga to change hers several times over the course of her career.

Madonna stopped being the girl next door after "Like A Virgin" blew up! I guess maybe you could argue for "Like A Prayer" and "Cherish" but most of her imagery from that point forward was "oh btw I am a fabulous alien, bow before me"

Yes but Gaga would have failed if she just tried the pre-existing archetypes thing and had to go post-madonna.

then you've got gaga as someone who's obv overflowing with raw talent in terms of singing and songwriting, versus madonna who willed herself to overcome her limitations there etc etc

so it's decided then, Kanye is the new Madonna

lol

The image of Kanye in a gold-coned bustier is pretty much going to ruin my entire Thanksgiving weekend.

Black Balls Ambition

how 'bout the image of Kanye romping in the surf in a Herb Ribbs-shot video?

Madonna stopped being the girl next door after "Like A Virgin" blew up!

idk, a lot of her songs after "like a virgin" are about explicitly "normal" things - fundamentally relatable. gaga doesn't seem all that bothered about being "relatable".

material grill

first 5 songs still sounding classic c. day 3. and deej not getting "power" only makes sense.

but uh THIS RECORD NEEDS ITS OWN THREAD, or you all OK w/ weeding through 5k posts in 2012?

gum smacking kanye leading griffin dunne astray in a howard hawks knockoff

A large number of Gaga's songs are also about explicitly "normal" things; it's her videos/stage show that is "strange".

so it's decided then, Kanye is the new Madonna

lol

tho it's kinda the opposite - madonna's force of personality enabled her to overcome her limited talent - kanye's personality sabotages his actual talent

"Alejandro" is about a boy named Alejandro.

"Just Dance" is about dancing.

dunno about late reg vs. thriller, but it still stands as the best thing kanye's done by a huge margin

"Poker Face" is about taping an ace of spades to your forehead.

(but back to the album, ppl REALLY think "Devil in a Blue Dress" is the best song on here????????????????????? wtf)

gaga/madonna is just lazy

i think it's valid

'80s madonna + select bits of erotica, ray of light, confessions > the fame monster/the fame > all other madonna in the last 20 years

Paparazzi is about the aftermath of the French Revolution

this record is so classic it needs a thread for its own thread

like, how can you complain about other songs being shoddy half thought out bullshit and then be like "but the song that just has a slightly sped-up vocal loop over a rudimentary beat? THAT IS A JAM"

Please reassure me that Devil In A Blue Dress has nothing whatsoever to do with the Donae'o track...

ha

no, it does not

madonna so much smarter and bringing things from club culture, gay culture, fashion, new york, etc into american living rooms/cineplexes during reagan era so far beyond anything gaga doing which just seems like an 8th graders clumsy idea of what avant garde is over what is admittedly by many leagues the best example of the default pop sound of the age. i can't imagine her provoking her own dj sprinkles, unless boney m reunites.

so it's decided then, Kanye is the new Madonna

lol

tho it's kinda the opposite - madonna's force of personality enabled her to overcome her limited talent - kanye's personality sabotages his actual talent

― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Wednesday, November 24, 2010 12:02 PM (52 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dunno, obviously Kanye is often a great producer but that's not necessarily about a skill set that involves a lot of raw talent -- especially since a lot of his best production decisions involve samples and how he deploys them. i think of him as someone without a lot of natural musical gifts who's climbed his way to the top by sheer will, perhaps even more so than Madonna, who had a bit more in the way of looks and natural charisma on her side.

madonna cleared out a space that didn't even exist, lady gaga lives there now

Actually, Madonna was once an excellent songwriter with a good ear for hooks.

and she can still cough them out on occasion.

you don't release top notch pop songs for 20+ years without bringing some songwriting talent to the table of a revolving door of producers.

when shes not sucking on hard candy xpost

also, kanye's obsession with (white) high society/aristocracy signifiers does remind me of those few years where madonna tried to be huntin-and-shootin english landed gentry

you don't release top notch pop songs for 20+ years without bringing some songwriting talent to the table of a revolving door of producers.)

srsly.

Well half the song is actual instrumentation + sample loop but w/e

Its actually called "devil in a new dress" btw

yeah Madonna is obviously a talented musician on some levels, but when you're putting her in the context of being peers with Prince and MJ it gets hard not to characterize her as someone more lucky and driven than gifted

yeah devil in a new dress is not one of my faves but I do like the progression/ornamentation of the arrangement

well yeah, but that's like saying "Tom Petty is pretty good but next to Dylan it's hard not to characterize him as someone more lucky and driven than gifted."

xpost

this album is def kanye's "hard promises"

actually kanye might be more like john cougar mellencamp, kinda bratty and with a huge chip on his shoulder and an inferiority complex

i dunno, obviously Kanye is often a great producer but that's not necessarily about a skill set that involves a lot of raw talent -- especially since a lot of his best production decisions involve samples and how he deploys them. i think of him as someone without a lot of natural musical gifts who's climbed his way to the top by sheer will

kanye knows how to write hooks, often vocal ones, that have nothing to do w/ samples

but he doesn't know when to stop, he just runs the damn things into the ground

little black balls for you and me

xp

you mean like saying "WHEN OJ HAD ISOTONERS" 50 times in one song?

^^^ he was actually punning on my name

I like the mellencamp comparison

guy was pegged as a meathead rocker but he wanted to tilt at the serious artist crown, he got respect for trying, def became part of the pop culture milieu, but not with the impact of dylan or springsteen

kanye's bristles against his own limitations but it's frequently NAGL, I'm not so concerned about his self-obsessiveness - in a genre where shouting out yr own name every couple of minutes is de rigueur it's like so what - but rapping about yr own talent and creativity comes off like some high school ish, show don't tell