Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

also hoping more for our generations motor booty affair than sott

Hooray death of the monoculture, etc.

I started a thread about this awhile back. it did not go well.

uh guys I don't think y'all noticed but the point was that kanye can't really measure up to prior pop achievements, not that dude has made a classic on the same shelf

i blame nostalgia culture, esp for things people weren't sentient enough to actually remember

the only one of these analogies i hear batted about that actually manages to annoy me is when ppl go gaga = madonna. i'm pro-gaga but motherfucker plz.

Late Registration is better than any MJ record imo.

that is because you are insane

gaga/madonna is just lazy, like kate bush/tori amos - they work within broadly the same genre but their approaches and skills and general aesthetics are hugely different

either way, "better" is not as important a distinction in this discussion as "central to pop culture"

xxp

i'll take late registration over any marlon jackson record.

thriller has paul mccartney, late registration has cam'ron. naturally lr is better.

i'll take late registration over any marlon jackson record.

lol touche

I'll take wanda jackson over any kanye record

there isn't a music act working thats remotely "central to pop culture". the 'huge' ones a lucky to get "peripheral to pop culture".

gaga = madonna works on the image-as-story thing, right? if you take the music out of it, the comparison totally works.

there isn't a music act working thats remotely "central to pop culture". the 'huge' ones a lucky to get "peripheral to pop culture".

― balls, Wednesday, 24 November 2010 16:52 (15 seconds ago) Bookmark

beyonce?

I think balls is otm. stars are smaller these days.

It is a massive stretch to say that Gaga's approach and general aesthetics are "hugely different" from Madonna's; it's more that they are both a product of their times than anything else but the points of view are very, very close.

Gaga is, of course, a way better singer.

mostly because the firmament itself has expanded exponentially xp

I'll take wanda jackson over any kanye record

― tween-justin-bieber-riot-of-09-pandemonium-arrests-terror+tweeting (Edward III), Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:52 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

OTM

gaga = madonna works on the image-as-story thing, right?

yeah but the actual images they employ are (have become) pretty different - gaga's way more rococo/fantastical/surrealist and goes out of her way to erase any lingering trace of girl-next-door; madonna retained that throughout many of her image changes and played with pre-existing archetypes a lot more

then you've got gaga as someone who's obv overflowing with raw talent in terms of singing and songwriting, versus madonna who willed herself to overcome her limitations there etc etc

haha xps

I tend to think Madonna eased into her visual mastery. She was a club/disco artist first.

anyway i thot gaga just ripped roisin murphy

I don't think Gaga/Madonna is THAT lazy, because Gaga is almost certainly actively trying to be this generation's Madonna. That might just be because the shadow that Madonna casts over female mainstream pop is larger than that of even Jacko and Prince. Partly because Jacko and Prince are in a more crowded room full of male icons whereas Madonna is out on her own.

Xpost - the actual images they employ are irrelevant here given I expect Gaga to change hers several times over the course of her career.

Madonna stopped being the girl next door after "Like A Virgin" blew up! I guess maybe you could argue for "Like A Prayer" and "Cherish" but most of her imagery from that point forward was "oh btw I am a fabulous alien, bow before me"

Yes but Gaga would have failed if she just tried the pre-existing archetypes thing and had to go post-madonna.

then you've got gaga as someone who's obv overflowing with raw talent in terms of singing and songwriting, versus madonna who willed herself to overcome her limitations there etc etc

so it's decided then, Kanye is the new Madonna

lol

The image of Kanye in a gold-coned bustier is pretty much going to ruin my entire Thanksgiving weekend.

Black Balls Ambition

how 'bout the image of Kanye romping in the surf in a Herb Ribbs-shot video?

Madonna stopped being the girl next door after "Like A Virgin" blew up!

idk, a lot of her songs after "like a virgin" are about explicitly "normal" things - fundamentally relatable. gaga doesn't seem all that bothered about being "relatable".

material grill

first 5 songs still sounding classic c. day 3. and deej not getting "power" only makes sense.

but uh THIS RECORD NEEDS ITS OWN THREAD, or you all OK w/ weeding through 5k posts in 2012?

gum smacking kanye leading griffin dunne astray in a howard hawks knockoff

A large number of Gaga's songs are also about explicitly "normal" things; it's her videos/stage show that is "strange".

so it's decided then, Kanye is the new Madonna

lol

tho it's kinda the opposite - madonna's force of personality enabled her to overcome her limited talent - kanye's personality sabotages his actual talent

"Alejandro" is about a boy named Alejandro.

"Just Dance" is about dancing.

dunno about late reg vs. thriller, but it still stands as the best thing kanye's done by a huge margin

"Poker Face" is about taping an ace of spades to your forehead.

(but back to the album, ppl REALLY think "Devil in a Blue Dress" is the best song on here????????????????????? wtf)

gaga/madonna is just lazy

i think it's valid

'80s madonna + select bits of erotica, ray of light, confessions > the fame monster/the fame > all other madonna in the last 20 years

Paparazzi is about the aftermath of the French Revolution

this record is so classic it needs a thread for its own thread

like, how can you complain about other songs being shoddy half thought out bullshit and then be like "but the song that just has a slightly sped-up vocal loop over a rudimentary beat? THAT IS A JAM"

Please reassure me that Devil In A Blue Dress has nothing whatsoever to do with the Donae'o track...

ha

no, it does not

madonna so much smarter and bringing things from club culture, gay culture, fashion, new york, etc into american living rooms/cineplexes during reagan era so far beyond anything gaga doing which just seems like an 8th graders clumsy idea of what avant garde is over what is admittedly by many leagues the best example of the default pop sound of the age. i can't imagine her provoking her own dj sprinkles, unless boney m reunites.

so it's decided then, Kanye is the new Madonna

lol

tho it's kinda the opposite - madonna's force of personality enabled her to overcome her limited talent - kanye's personality sabotages his actual talent

― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Wednesday, November 24, 2010 12:02 PM (52 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dunno, obviously Kanye is often a great producer but that's not necessarily about a skill set that involves a lot of raw talent -- especially since a lot of his best production decisions involve samples and how he deploys them. i think of him as someone without a lot of natural musical gifts who's climbed his way to the top by sheer will, perhaps even more so than Madonna, who had a bit more in the way of looks and natural charisma on her side.