Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

well to be fair she was selling more than he ever has even before the vmas thing

yeah markers is trippin -- 'speak now''s first week numbers are the highest since carter III & will probably be the most for another few years or so

you could maybe argue that the rush to embrace this album represents a retreat to a kind of aesthetic morality (important! visionary! risky! real! progressive!) in response to a pop culture that's become a bit too satisfied with pop artifice and superficiality. hence n's fascination with the grime beneath the polish.

― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:49 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

i don't think this is a retreat btw -- people have always been enamored w/ this kind of stuff

how many copies did graduation sell? im seriously vv surprised hes supposedly going to sell so many fewer copies of this than speak now

wikipedia sez 2,166,000

in the us

holy shit, alright, yeah, fearless had 6 mil + in the US, discussion over

Why is that so surprising to you markers? Genuinely curious. I would have thought it'd be pretty obvious that T-Swift was going to obliterate pretty much everyone right now.

i don't think this is a retreat btw -- people have always been enamored w/ this kind of stuff

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:01 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah i know. was mentally framing that wr2 popism.

I would have thought it'd be pretty obvious that T-Swift was going to obliterate pretty much everyone right now.

― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:06 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

also obvious that kanye never really has been a massive pop star as measured by sales/hits. but his brand is "massive pop star" and apparently that's enough.

if selling almost 20 million albums doesn't make you a massive pop star, I'm not sure what does

also obvious that kanye never really has been a massive pop star as measured by sales/hits.

this is also wrong

depends on your metric. none of his albums have sold half what Eminem or 50 Cent's biggest albums sold, but he still obviously is a pretty big deal.

Why is that so surprising to you markers? Genuinely curious. I would have thought it'd be pretty obvious that T-Swift was going to obliterate pretty much everyone right now.

― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 22:06

i dont really follow album sales at all! but i guess i feel like kanye is at least as famous, if not more so, than taylor and that he was probably on her level saleswise too? but i was obviously totally wrong

Eminem didn't even score back to back #1's until this year.

and this isn't gonna sell that much more than nicki's album apparently,

this is way more surprising than the t-swift comparison

yeah a lot of people who don't follow country or adult contempo radio or read all the chart numbers barely had an inkling of who Swift was or that she was considered famous before the Kanye thing -- she definitely doesn't cut across as many youth culture demographics as he does, seems less visible overall

i'm still playing wait-and-see on the sales this week, i do find it somewhat hard to believe that Kanye isn't going to sell considerably more than Nicki

According to Soundscan / Nielsen both 'graduation' and '808s and a heartbreak' were the #7 best selling albums of 2007 and 2009 respectively. Can't find the exact sales figures but it's a pretty impressive feat.

http://en-us.nielsen.com/content/dam/nielsen/en_us/documents/pdf/Press%20Releases/2007/December/The%20Nielsen%20Company%20Issues%20Top%20Ten%20U.S.%20Lists%20for%202007.pdf

http://en-us.nielsen.com/content/dam/nielsen/en_us/documents/pdf/Press%20Releases/2009/December/The%20Nielsen%20Company%20Issues%20Top%20Ten%20U.S.%20Lists%20for%202009.pdf

depends on your metric. none of his albums have sold half what Eminem or 50 Cent's biggest albums sold, but he still obviously is a pretty big deal.

― some dude

Erm... actually:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2007/09/18/2007-09-18_report_kanye_west_worth_more_than_50_cen.html

(he also outsold eminem on 2009 according to the nielsen report I link to above)

for the lazy:

Top 10 Albums – thru Dec 2, 2007

1
HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 2
SOUNDTRACK
2
DAUGHTRY
DAUGHTRY
3
LINKIN PARK
MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
4
HANNAH MONTANA 2: MEET MILEY CYRUS
SOUNDTRACK
5
FERGIE
DUTCHESS
6
EAGLES
LONG ROAD OUT OF EDEN
7
KANYE WEST
GRADUATION
8
NICKELBACK
ALL THE RIGHT REASONS
9
AKON
KONVICTED
10
JOSH GROBAN
NOEL

Source: Billboard 200 / Nielsen SoundScan
Note: Data from Jan 1 – Dec 2 2007. Traditionally, album sales see significant increases during the holidays.

Top 10 Albums 2009

1 Fearless Taylor Swift
2 I am…Sasha Fierce Beyonce
3 Dark Horse Nickelback
4 Twilight Soundtrack
5 Hannah Montana: The Movie Soundtrack
6 Circus Britney Spears
7 808s & Heartbreak Kanye West
8 The Fame Lady Gaga
9 Relapse Eminem
10 The E.N.D. The Black Eyed Peas

Source: Billboard 200 / The Nielsen Company
Note: Data from Billboard issue dates Dec 6, 2008 issue through November 28, 2009
(sales data from Nov. 17, 2008 through November 15, 2009).

xpost: sorry I just saw that you meant their biggest albums.

I meant exactly what I said: Kanye's biggest albums (the first 2, which sold 3 million each in the U.S.) haven't sold half of what Eminem's biggest album (MMLP, 9 million) or 50's biggest album (GRODT, 7 million) have sold.

xpost right, yeah

It seems that people under 14 and over 40 are the only ones really buying music anymore.

yeah a lot of people who don't follow country or adult contempo radio or read all the chart numbers barely had an inkling of who Swift was or that she was considered famous before the Kanye thing -- she definitely doesn't cut across as many youth culture demographics as he does, seems less visible overall

― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:18 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

i still have yet to hear a taylor swift song knowingly

well, kanye's done 3 mil per album in the US, with not much more around the world - up until 808s, which only did 2 mil US. not saying he's not a big deal, but he's not up there among the very biggest sellers of his era. otoh, he's running very close behind. again, this isn't to suggest that he isn't a star, isn't deserving, but rather that the supposed inevitability of MBDTF's ecstatic reception is a little strange.

Hmm...certainly by the end of 2009 and start of 2009 the Fearless singles guaranteed someone somewhere had heard something by Swift. I was one of them; I'd barely heard "Tim McGraw" in 2006 or 2007.

of course, Kanye's solo career peaked later than Em or 50, a little after album sales started to slide, but even on something like the Billboard decade-end charts, where chart placement matters and changes in overall sales don't really effect things, Kanye's highest up album is only #42 on the hip hop/R&B list:

http://www.billboard.com/charts-decade-end#/charts-decade-end/r-b-hip-hop-albums?year=2009&begin=1&order=position

well, kanye's done 3 mil per album in the US, with not much more around the world - up until 808s, which only did 2 mil US. not saying he's not a big deal, but he's not up there among the very biggest sellers of his era. otoh, he's running very close behind.

Also: his production credits.

but rather that the supposed inevitability of MBDTF's ecstatic reception is a little strange

that inevitability isn't purely sales-based though, it's that spot in the venn diagram where a certain amount of critical cred intersects with high sales

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanye_West_production_discography

is it maybe apples/oranges to compare the record sales of swift and west? like she may sell TONS of records, but its mostly to pop country consumers, who evidently buy records en masse that literally never make it to the ears of many radio listeners. whereas: someone who's a pop star and is played on several different stations in a major market will at least be ~known~

that is, if i go tuning through the radio and stop at stations i deem tolerable, there's a good chance i'll hear/get familiar with kanye's latest. i never EVER listen to country radio so the chances of hearing swift (or any other mega country star) is basically nil. and i don't think i'm alone here.

also wow, i didn't realise this but "power" and "runaway" both flopped hard in the UK - peaks of no 36 and no 56 respectively, then they disappeared. cf 808s - two top 10 hits, both of which hung around for ages.

is it maybe apples/oranges to compare the record sales of swift and west? like she may sell TONS of records, but its mostly to pop country consumers, who evidently buy records en masse that literally never make it to the ears of many radio listeners

on my local Clear Channel station, Taylor Swift got massive airplay in 2009 -- as much as Rihanna, Eminem, Soulja Boy, etc

i.e. she hasn't been a pop country rep since 2007.

i mean if you just ask someone on the street "does the name kanye west mean anything to you, and what is his occupation?" more ppl would be able to answer the question correctly before they'd get "taylor swift" right

(NB - pre-VMAs. now everyone knows who she is)

xp nevermind!

if you would really like to see a reason for destroying America, look at how many albums Carrie Underwood has sold

i do find it somewhat hard to believe that Kanye isn't going to sell considerably more than Nicki

― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:19 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

me too, but hits daily double is usually pretty accurate

yeah taylor is on pop radio plenty -- i mean, "you belong with me" alone

Carrie Underwood has sold

who

man i guess i am just waaaay more disconnected from pop culture than i thought.

as usual I think we (I include myself) are basing our assertions on our own radio experiences. In South Florida, Swift was inescapable before the VMA's.

who

Season 4 American Idol winner, aka "country artist who cannot fucking sing a single note yet is still multiplatinum because people are fucking idiots"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaSy8yy-mr8

this is the most bearable song she's done and it's still horrible

hmmmm. doubt she was getting much airplay on the MN pop stations for the VMAs, but i have no basis for that assertion, other than that there are well-established country stations that probably played her plenty. basically i know nothing

xp

how far we've come: just blaze vs. kanye west

eh -- I don't mind Underwood. Much more nefarious forces at work on the charts.

This is a generalization, but if you listened to pop radio in 2009 you heard Taylor Swift.

I guess it doesn't add up to the discussion since we're speaking American sales but in Mexico and Spain noone I've talked to knows who Taylor Swift is or recognize any of her most popular songs (none of her songs got any radio airplay on the pop radio stations over here as far as Im concerned) whereas Kanye West is pretty wide known by people in my age rank (20-30).

basically as far as I'm concerned the only good thing Carrie Underwood did was save America from BO BICE

otherwise she can go straight into the riverbound rock-filled sack with Owl City

i look at the interior of my sack and feel sad