Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

well actually I think what really happened was he released "Just Lose It"

there are tons of huge Kanye stans out there. i feel like there's been a pretty big push from his fanbase, especially the younger high school/college types who've known him as a big deal since before they started listening to music, to think of him as the great artist of our time, our Dylan or our MJ or our Stevie. seriously.

― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:22 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, this is the impression i'm getting, and it's messing with my head. i can see as how he was an interesting artist within a popular niche who early on caused you (me, anyway) to think he was going places, but in my mind the ultimate story is that the story of his celebrity came to eclipse his musical artistry - at least came to distort it in often unfortunate ways. it's like he became this symbolic "megastar" simply because we needed one and he was flawed and narcissistic enough to fit the tenor of the times. this despite the fact he never really did put out the mega-populist breakthrough songs/albums that such pop coronations have traditionally depended on. "golddigger" is still as close as he's come.

as a result, there's a hollow, nonsensical, alternate-universe quality to the sudden and seemingly unanimous celebration of this very clearly flawed album. i mean, i love it, but i tend to love big, messy art-disasters on principle. i enjoy this record in much the same way that i enjoy the love below and andrew WK's close calls with brick walls: without condescension, but with a sense of wonder at the splendid mistake. do other people take it the same way? if not, what am i missing, or what are they? because music this wildly crippled doesn't often elicit blanket praise from all quarters...

yeah I'm the only person who thinks or will admit this but The Love Below is still mostly great and is certainly better than this album

i think that's a good post cntndrzr

basically guys, what you are seeing is a "Trapped in the Closet" bug-out reaction pointed towards something actually marketable

that hollowness is the sound from right before everyone fills the big gaping hole in their "the year in music" article/list/post

I tend to love big, messy art-disasters on principle.

I'm the defender of Dirty Work and Empire Burlesque not out of contrarianism but because I think they're excellent albums. The Kanye album seems a perfect candidate. But the arrangements aren't an adequate musical correlative for his unpleasantness.

at its best, this album is both mega-populist pop breakthrough AND big messy art-disaster, at the same time -- this is key to its whole appeal for me.

i'll prob catch shit for saying this but not really hearing the "pop" on this album

and certainly not populism--how is this accessible or relateable unless you are actually kanye!

it's really catchy!

that was an xpost but applies to your second post as well

see, Em came to mind immediately as i was typing that out, and i think the point when he turned to writing shit about his actual real life (well sorta) and not just gonzo shit in general is when ppl in general cooled on him being this next level could-be-important dude? like if i think of all my favorite/best em tracks basically none of them have any grounding in reality, or are about how ~hard~ it is to be eminem

― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:42 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, but isn't that because em was writing directly from and to the 13 year-old male id? that's why i dug him so much over the course of those first two albums, and, imo, why he became so important to his young fanbase. the self-centered myopia of em's persona was perfectly matched to the sensibility of a specific age group. but kanye's never spoken for tweens. if he ever did, he certainly isn't doing so now. early on, he spoke for young men, those on the verge of adulthood. now he's narrating the journey through. which makes the appeal of his narcissistic myopia mystifying to me. is it possible that masses of 20 and 30 year-olds actually relate to his post-late registration persona?

somehow I don't think anyone is going to have a problem marketing or digesting "crazy-egotistical Kanye West album"

u guys realize this is gonna sell gajillions of copies, right? that this isnt some weird quirk of music critics?

it's a kanye album with longer songs, not 'metal machine music'

i mean u can boggle at the idea that ppl think hes a great artist but yr not just talking about ryan dombal & pfork editors, yr talking about lots & lots of music listeners

sure it's going to sell i think it's more like "who is buying it and what do they like about it"

somehow I don't think anyone is going to have a problem marketing or digesting "crazy-egotistical Kanye West album"

yeah it's all good until you hear the record and it's not nearly as fun as the description reads

yeah, but isn't that because em was writing directly from and to the 13 year-old male id? that's why i dug him so much over the course of those first two albums, and, imo, why he became so important to his young fanbase. the self-centered myopia of em's persona was perfectly matched to the sensibility of a specific age group. but kanye's never spoken for tweens. if he ever did, he certainly isn't doing so now. early on, he spoke for young men, those on the verge of adulthood. now he's narrating the journey through. which makes the appeal of his narcissistic myopia mystifying to me. is it possible that masses of 20 and 30 year-olds actually relate to his post-late registration persona?

― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:57 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

bcuz its simultaneously insecure and egotistical, in public display w/ its privateness, its a v social media age record. ppl can at some level even relate to this agnoizing solipsism. gross imo but it is relateable

u guys need to read nabisco's piece

people are acting like Kanye albums are impenetrable art pieces and not, like, Billboard fodder at its most self-regarding

guess i could be underrating the appeal of emo garbage like runaway

the livejournal generation is buying rap records yall

i read nabisco's piece, it was good.

an end screen cap for the POWER music video would've been endlessly more satisfying than this "this is not a CD - this is art" vibes the actual artwork is giving off

i mean u can boggle at the idea that ppl think hes a great artist but yr not just talking about ryan dombal & pfork editors, yr talking about lots & lots of music listeners

dude that is precisely what we were bogglin

i think i'm just stuck on agreeing w/a lot of what you guys are saying while still be mystified at how that results in the album being enjoyable

"Runaway" and "Monster" are both top 20 hits; don't know if they're still climbing or not

I don't know if either will get into the top 10, though, and every previous album has had at least one or more top 5 hits.

ok good to know--i never hear ye in my four-times-daily scan of the radio

the album is all but guaranteed to sell well, at least initially. i'll be curious to see how the singles wind up faring. can see it being a solid chart success, but there is no way it's gonna be some thriller-style grand slam. it's not inaccessible, but nor is it packed to the gills with massive smash hits. it's not like he's the black-eyed peas or something.

okay maybe not "Monster", can't find a source for that beyond Wikipedia

also nothing off of College Dropout was Top 5

i think "Monster" has peaked at like #18 so far, yeah, might've mentioned it upthread. it's the only one of these songs i've heard a lot on the radio, and it says something when the big shapeless posse cut is outperforming the predestined "pop" single.

"Slow Jamz" was on College Dropout

"Runaway" hit #12

for comparison's sake, "Jesus Walks" hit #11

xp: "Slow Jamz" is not listed on the Billboard website

I guess it was marketed as a Twista single even though it was also on Kanye's album? (which IIRC came out after that song hit)

deej (and apparently nitsuh? i haven't read the review) otm about kanye being the perfect pop star for the era of oversharing and MBDTF reflecting this. that's more a part of the album's narrative of importance than a positive or negative quality, though.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/entertainment/When+more+becomes+much/3869323/story.html

Here's my review of this, published today.

"Slow Jamz" was always on the advances of College Dropout; Twista's label realized it was a hit and pushed it and got his album out first, but it still stayed on Kanye's album.

i think "Monster" has peaked at like #18 so far, yeah, might've mentioned it upthread. it's the only one of these songs i've heard a lot on the radio, and it says something when the big shapeless posse cut is outperforming the predestined "pop" single.

― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:08 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

idk about 'shapeless' -- do u just mean 'lacks a chorus'?? its the most immediate for sure

not sure any singles off this are gonna do well outside the US - Power only just made the top 40 here, Runaway a new entry this week at 56 - really no idea if that will climb higher or sink at this point

"Slow Jamz" was always on the advances of College Dropout; Twista's label realized it was a hit and pushed it and got his album out first, but it still stayed on Kanye's album.

notice how this contradicts exactly nothing in my post

i realllly dont get the critical hosannahs for 'power' -- that song's appeal entirely alludes me

doh, eludes

well i just mean oddly structured -- weird intro that sounds nothing like the rest of a song, one verse that goes 4 bars and another that goes 32 bars, long outro that a lot of DJs cut off, etc. all i was saying is that "Monster" is probably the most well liked song on the record and it's not a top 40 hit in the "Gold Digger" mold.

xp apparently, it sounds like other, better kanye songs

Where's nabisco's piece, btw?

don't think u got a mention in it dogg