Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

yes it is a fake word but imo useful shorthand for the lack of space in the production of this album

http://www.yourdictionary.com/maximalist

lol

http://www.livius.org/th/theory/theory-maximalists.html

lol ok well spellcheck doesn't like it

okay so for the record:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalism

it's not really about how many instruments are playing at a particular time; it's about song structure and repetition, which points some of the denser tracks here to actually being more minimalist in composition

embraces heterogeneity and allows for complex systems of juxtapositions and collisions, in which all outside influences are viewed as potential raw material

undecided if this applies or not

like, it sort of does, but then the (normal for hip-hop) usage pattern is very minimalist

basically the whole maximalist/minimalist thing is a red herring, is my ultimate point

agreed--can we just use "really loud overstuffed production with no space"

who exemplifies middlemalism & which singers utilize middlemelisma to greatest effect

agreed--can we just use "really loud overstuffed production with no space"

btw are we sure we mean production & not loudness-wars-related mastering stuff? I'm not, there's like 3 mastering dudes working who don't have their heads all the way up their asses AFAIK

overusing and misusing "minimalism" is kind of one of the recurring themes of the entire history of ILM

entire history of western metaphysics imo

or maybe only with the rise of 'criticism'/early romantics

btw are we sure we mean production & not loudness-wars-related mastering stuff?

i'm sure it's mastered to be too loud but i also think the arrangements and mixing are too much, all the time

power and all the lights are the worst offenders--both these songs are pretty much a mess

"Power" is a mess??????

was running on the assumption that maximalism = too much all the time

xp: like, it's basically "Jesus Walks Pt 2", I don't get it unless you dislike both of those songs

the engineering is one of the things i actually like about this. dont hear much loudness wars-esque distortion at all? id have to listen again tho

'monster' beat has great use of space/tension imo

"monster" is really hittin' me hard right now, maybe my favorite thing here overall — btw kanye why the hell are you mixing goose and malibu? not sure what that's supposed to achieve

(other than letting you "call it 'mali-BOOYAH!")

i'm already exhausted by this album and i haven't even heard it yet

well one of the probs with being a bad copy of jesus walks (it actually reminds me more of crack music actually) is that jesus walks already exists

#kanyefatigue trending hard on twitter

"Power" is a mess??????

I know, I had the same reaction but then I remembered I was thinking of the Amy Grant song "The Power," from her 1994 album House of Love, as I assume you also were

the engineering is one of the things i actually like about this. dont hear much loudness wars-esque distortion at all? id have to listen again tho

what format are you listening in

live

kanye sleeps on my futon and performs the album every night at 8pm

what a dark twisted fantasy

that's come baller shit right there

come...baller?

obviously meant to say "corn baller"

okay the worst possible typo

and by worst I do mean best

'Power' is not 'Jesus Walks 2.0' they're both different beasts and they're both great.

it was an obamanation

I can't comment on the lyrics.

why not?

'Power' lyrics are cringeful in several spots.

But I adore what he did on the backing track.

You understand that saying something is "[x] Pt 2" is not the same thing as saying those two things are exactly alike? Rather that the latter follows on from the former?

Music-wise? Well yes, they both have spiralling chants and a funk drum loop. Lyrics-wise? If that's the case we could pinpoint almost every song of his following the same themes.

stop being obtuse, dude

Both of them a specific vintage-sounding, martial beat overlaid with staccato interjections from different samples and both follow the same overall structure, with analogous breakdowns in similar spots. I am not saying they are carbon copies but that there is similarity in the way they were constructed; one could even argue that "Power" expands upon the template with both its busier syncopation and the long note in the repeated vocal interjection.

Not saying a word about subject matter, just how the songs are built.

i'm internally conditioned to have deep suspicions of any assertion that content is inseparable from anything, ever...

― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:08 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

yeah, this. i don't think it's necessary or even useful to insist that this album must be understood as an extension of kanye's public persona, as a celebrity artifact, even a moment-defining cultural event. this rigid insistence seems to be the only thing that actually elevates MBDTF into the annointed album of the moment, such a natural 10.0. like, i get the impression that MBDTF is an "important" record not only because it insists that this is so, but because there's some collective desire among a group of critics and fans to project this identity & significance onto it. the phrase "generation kanye" has cropped up a couple times here, but what does it even mean, and why would anyone want to belong to it? i ask that sincerely, as a fan.

honestly, i've paid very little focused attention to yeezy's saga over the past half decade. i'm aware that he's presented to us (and that he presents himself) as a monstrous celebrity egotist in the unfiltered contemporary style, both repellent and poignant, prone to douchey outbursts and endless grandstanding that only expose his underlying insecurity. i'm aware of that, but not personally engaged with the story's unfolding. my reaction to this record is therefore largely dependent on the music, the production and the language. it has a context in my mind due to its relationship to other rap, rock and pop, not due to the fact that it extends a celebrated backstory. i suspect i'd like or dislike MBDTF in much the same way regardless of what it was called, how it was packaged, or even who'd made it.

^ probably shoots my fandom claim in the foot, but i mean that i'm a fan of the music as music, in isolation from the story

i get the impression that MBDTF is an "important" record not only because it insists that this is so, but because there's some collective desire among a group of critics and fans to project this identity & significance onto it. the phrase "generation kanye" has cropped up a couple times here, but what does it even mean, and why would anyone want to belong to it? i ask that sincerely, as a fan.

i think ppl just want big records that break out of niches and this is one of the few

wait waht, who has committed "generation kanye" to the page with any sort of seriousness?? are their huge kanye stans out there?? not, like, people guaranteed to buy and listen to his music, but that are like omg dude is so RELEVANT TO ME. lady gaga i'd buy, but kanye?

ugh typos

i actually want to know that as well

http://newsroom.mtv.com/2010/10/24/kanye-west-runaway-film/

here ya go

http://www.xxlmag.com/bloggers/2008/11/kanye-west-totally-voiced-my-generation/

also here