Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

i don't feel strongly about the framing either way! and i'm not saying my view of the music is more "pure" than anyone else's! i just don't especially like the music!

― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:17 AM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark

neither do i, but we're disagreeing about something, right?

this sounds a lot more ambitious, a lot further afield, a lot more about kanye than about songs, a lot more personal, a lot more biographically driven, more star-studded, there are a whole bunch of other reasons why this would get more critical attention

EVERY one of these apart from "star-studded" applies to 808s!

what i'm saying is i care more about the drums sounding kind of weak here and there or the rhymes at times being poorly written or obnoxiously delivered. but those details don't seem to bother the reviewers who write 800 words about Kanye's career and his twitter and one or two paragraphs about individual songs.

this sounds a lot more ambitious, a lot further afield, a lot more about kanye than about songs, a lot more personal, a lot more biographically driven, more star-studded, there are a whole bunch of other reasons why this would get more critical attention

― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:17 AM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark

critical attn, sure, but critical accolades?

EVERY one of these apart from "star-studded" applies to 808s!

― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:18 AM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

except that was 'weirder', less of an event record & more of a left turn

not really? i mean i don't think this album is better than Graduation, and Graduation's "great but not OMG AMAZING MASTERPIECE" reviews were more appropriate to its quality partly because it was just kind of presented as oh another Kanye album with a little bit of new ideas but mostly the Kanye you already know. (xpost to max)

― some dude, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:16 PM (52 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ok? i mean im sure you think that! but its a weak argument--we wont ever actually know how much the title of this album mesmerized ryan dombal vs "good ass job"

EVERY one of these apart from "star-studded" applies to 808s!

Sure, but 808s IS a better album than this. IMO.

well, Dombal would lobby for every Kanye album to get a 10, i'm sure, this is just the time he got the greenlight for it.

i should probably bow out of this until i actually hear the album, but frankly the expectation that i ought to find this album important ambitious and interesting is already making it seem like a drag

critical attn, sure, but critical accolades?

― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:19 AM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lames like lame stuff? ppl be loving celebrity culture? anyone vaguely art-y gets artiste plaudits. not rlly surprising! esp when he's managed to deliver a record w a context of 'art' that papers over any 'flaws' (& encourages/embraces them) in the name of said art

gbx, this album is neither as good as the rhapsodic reviews or as bad as the pans; it's basically an expectation-satisfying Kanye album with a couple of amazing tracks and a couple of really, really terrible ones and most of the material on it will earworm you to death

Sure, but 808s IS a better album than this. IMO.

this, we agree on

i think this is way better than 808s & i dont even think this is that good!

gbx, this album is neither as good as the rhapsodic reviews or as bad as the pans; it's basically an expectation-satisfying Kanye album with a couple of amazing tracks and a couple of really, really terrible ones and most of the material on it will earworm you to death

― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:23 AM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

generally agree with this except I think most of the tracks are at least good and the worst tracks are at the end so it's easy to avoid them

also 808s was pretty boring

might have to poll 808s vs the xx...

the material on it will earworm you to death

Runaway has been doing this to me today FUCK U KANYE

I'd put both 808s and Late Registration over this; it's about on par with Graduation for me

lames like lame stuff? ppl be loving celebrity culture? anyone vaguely art-y gets artiste plaudits. not rlly surprising! esp when he's managed to deliver a record w a context of 'art' that papers over any 'flaws' (& encourages/embraces them) in the name of said art

― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:21 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

haha i dont know why, but for some reason this post makes me think that really everyone was sorta on the same page for the last little bit here.

if pfork hadnt given this a 10 im not so sure ppl would be remembering 808s so fondly

if i didn't strongly dislike this album i wouldn't have something to compare 808s favorably to

if pfork hadnt given this a 10 im not so sure ppl would be remembering the phantom menace so fondly

seriously though, this is me being a big music nerd but the whole "Hell of a Life" polyrhythm 2 against 3 against whatever tuple that arpeggio sample is in is making me freak the fuck out

if pfork hadnt given this a 10 im not so sure ppl would be remembering 808s so fondly

which "ppl" are you talking about here, because I have been a massive booster of 808s since its release

also I think people are really misusing the terms "minimalist" and "maximalist"

i was just trying to fit in

i'm a maximalist, think his gawker posts are pretty good

max i'ma list

which "ppl" are you talking about here, because I have been a massive booster of 808s since its release

― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:29 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not u then...but the attitude towards this record was far more favorable on ilx until that review dropped

i mean, al wasnt gonna like it either way

dont get me wrong

ok i just STOLE this

okay the Chris Rock skit works a lot better the second time around because I know how long it is

also "Lost in the World" could be called many things but I don't get how it's boring

also I think people are really misusing the terms "minimalist" and "maximalist"

"minimalist" means something whereas I'm not sure that "maximalist" does, really

yes it is a fake word but imo useful shorthand for the lack of space in the production of this album

http://www.yourdictionary.com/maximalist

lol

http://www.livius.org/th/theory/theory-maximalists.html

lol ok well spellcheck doesn't like it

okay so for the record:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalism

it's not really about how many instruments are playing at a particular time; it's about song structure and repetition, which points some of the denser tracks here to actually being more minimalist in composition

embraces heterogeneity and allows for complex systems of juxtapositions and collisions, in which all outside influences are viewed as potential raw material

undecided if this applies or not

like, it sort of does, but then the (normal for hip-hop) usage pattern is very minimalist

basically the whole maximalist/minimalist thing is a red herring, is my ultimate point

agreed--can we just use "really loud overstuffed production with no space"

who exemplifies middlemalism & which singers utilize middlemelisma to greatest effect

agreed--can we just use "really loud overstuffed production with no space"

btw are we sure we mean production & not loudness-wars-related mastering stuff? I'm not, there's like 3 mastering dudes working who don't have their heads all the way up their asses AFAIK

overusing and misusing "minimalism" is kind of one of the recurring themes of the entire history of ILM

entire history of western metaphysics imo

or maybe only with the rise of 'criticism'/early romantics

btw are we sure we mean production & not loudness-wars-related mastering stuff?

i'm sure it's mastered to be too loud but i also think the arrangements and mixing are too much, all the time

power and all the lights are the worst offenders--both these songs are pretty much a mess

"Power" is a mess??????

was running on the assumption that maximalism = too much all the time

xp: like, it's basically "Jesus Walks Pt 2", I don't get it unless you dislike both of those songs