by 'pfork's value system,' again, i mean 'the collected tendencies of the writers who make editorial & writing decisions on a daily basis,' amongst which i am an outlier. these arent abstract values put down in writing. they are just tendencies that many of the writers overlap on. kanye hits a lot of those, for a lot of writers.
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:11 (thirteen years ago) link
ilm is very inside baseball but to the general public I still feel p4k is still that 'indie music site that only hipsters check out' to the point where I get asked 'where do you get all your music from, pitchfork'? by friends who rarely if ever follow music
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:11 (thirteen years ago) link
and like...this is why i love this album despite myself. kanye IS the biggest pop star of our era. we get the icons we deserve. six years ago he had things to say - important things maybe, but in the age of twitter and facebook and gossip girl doesn't it make sense that our real hero is a navel-gazing narcissist who's self-aware enough to know what's wrong with himself AND the rest of the world but more concerned with posting hot pictures of models to his blog and worrying about whether or not he hurt George Bush's feelings back when he was still saying things that made sense? but for better or for worse, he's ours, and i'm as invested in his ego and persona as he is.
like...fuck Lady GaGa, Kanye was doing life-as-performance art for years. we're all doing life-as-performance art these days.
― The SBurbs (Alex in Montreal), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:12 (thirteen years ago) link
contrarianism against everybody who is still pigeonholing p4k as an indie mag who would only ever give 10.0s to yankee hotel foxtrot & source tags and codes
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:10 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
how does this even qualify as 'contrarianism' -- the site hasnt been like this in years
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:12 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah that's either a small subset of ppl or a massive strawman
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:13 (thirteen years ago) link
you still get people itt who think it makes more sense for p4k to give a 10.0 to anco or joanne newsom
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:13 (thirteen years ago) link
real contrarianism was running deej's waka review in the lead spot
why is that contrarian?
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:14 (thirteen years ago) link
p4k covers rap fairly regularly.
dayo's right though
― markers, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:15 (thirteen years ago) link
"the site hasnt been like this in years," fine, but that doesn't mean public perception of the site has changed along with the site
hi deej! yeah, it makes sense that it would be celebrated at the house of fork, but no more so than a bunch of other albums that didn't score quite as high. plus given its bizarre inconsistencies and tendency to walk around on its own face, it's hardly the kind of record that you'd expect to see praised to the rafters in all corners.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:16 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean. i think deej is right, in that this hits a lot of rock-critic sweet spots. it's also a pretty watershed record, and if you were going to give a 10.0 to something in terms of narrative and cultural moment, this would be it.
that it also coincides with p4k's continual growth from 2002-era indie bedroom review site to major criticism game player is just a bonus. and yeah, the general view of p4k outside of our inside baseball circles is still indielolz obscurantism, but that doesn't mean their love of Kanye etc. is being contrarian - scott et al. have made a point of pushing outwards for four or five years now. it's not totally generalist, but they were giving 8.1's to Justin back in 2006...you know?
― The SBurbs (Alex in Montreal), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:16 (thirteen years ago) link
also this is the list of headlines on p4k's site right now
Be Part of Thom Yorke's Art Project 9:40 a.m.Watch: Gorillaz Cover the xx 10:15 a.m.New Cut Copy: "Take Me Over" 3:00 p.m.M83 Talks "Very, Very, Very Epic" New LP 2:05 p.m.Robyn Announces North American Tour 12:00 p.m.Wilco Coffee Is a Real Thing 11:05 a.m.Listen: Atlas Sound Covers Bob Dylan, Kurt Vile 11:30 a.m.Pictureplane and Teengirl Fantasy Plot Tour 4:00 p.m.James Blake Announces Debut Album 4:30 p.m.
lol
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:17 (thirteen years ago) link
lol!
― markers, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Wilco Coffee Is a Real Thing
try the espresso roast.
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:18 (thirteen years ago) link
but that doesn't mean their love of Kanye etc. is being contrarian - scott et al. have made a point of pushing outwards for four or five years now. it's not totally generalist, but they were giving 8.1's to Justin back in 2006...you know?
I don't doubt their love of Kanye but I do doubt whether their love was the only reason behind the 10.0
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:18 (thirteen years ago) link
surprised that M83 is going for the third "very" this time around tbh
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:18 (thirteen years ago) link
it makes sense that it would be celebrated at the house of fork, but no more so than a bunch of other albums that didn't score quite as high
except for the fact that kanye is kanye etc. etc. Big Boi's album is as good if not better than this, but it wasn't a cultural moment...no big singles, no feeling of 'watershed'-ness.
like...would i have thrown The xx a 10? maybe. But the "idea" of a 10 is something IMPORTANT - and as rockist as that is, it's still something that rings true with people. a 10 should be a statement; a 10 should have ambition; a 10 should say something about the moment we live in; etc. is that bullshit? sure, but it's still something that probably comes into play.
and like...Joanna Newsom and Animal Collective might be a big deal in P4K land, but Animal Collective are the opposite of ambitious or showy. LCD might fit into that category, but This Is Happening was coming off of Sound of Silver, and would have needed to be demonstrably BETTER. Ditto Joanna and HOOM - I really love HOOM, more than most, but Ys is her big *statement* thus far. Jay-Z is asleep post-retirement. P4K has never been huge on R&B and if Erykah's Part 1 didn't break 8, Part 2 wasn't going to come anywhere near a 10. What else?
I mean. There are many many good reasons to give it a 10 without it being conspiracy-driven or contrarian. It just sort of makes sense given where Ye is these days and where p4k is these days. Anyway, all of this talking about p4k is silly. The story isn't about the grade - there's enough to actually discuss here without inside baseball.
― The SBurbs (Alex in Montreal), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:24 (thirteen years ago) link
big boi's record really isnt as 'good' as this, if u stick to the 'set expectations -> meets expectations' game. this record is way way more unique/interesting at some level. idk i dont really find either one particularly engaging, and ill probably still rock that song w/ too short & george clinton 5 years from now, more often than i play this. but this record obv feels like a bigger deal
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:26 (thirteen years ago) link
can i just make a subtle point about the whole late registration/omg it's jon brion! how artsy! narrative?
anyway, FUCK JON BRION. FUCK HIM. FUCK HIM. FUCK HIM.
miri ben-ari >>>> jon brion
mike fuckin dean yall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jon brion
― based lord sotosyn (The Reverend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:26 (thirteen years ago) link
some great posts AiM
but there's no way this thread would have 500+ new answers if it wasn't for the p4k 10
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:27 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah -- lots of great posts. But I don't know what we're discussing anymore -- something about Thom Yorke and coffee.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:28 (thirteen years ago) link
are you responding to 2005 or?
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:28 (thirteen years ago) link
something about Thom Yorke and coffee.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:28 PM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark
just skip over the markers & daniel esq posts
kanye west graduation
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (553 of them)
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:29 (thirteen years ago) link
what a disaster for markers and Daniel, Esq!!!
― markers, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:30 (thirteen years ago) link
See, Big Boi's album is ambitious in the way I like: trim yet every song looking at its given subject from an unexpected, skewed musical and lyrical pov. It's exhausting in a good way -- I want to play it again as soon as it's over.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:30 (thirteen years ago) link
xps: someone mentioned that narrative and it bears heavy on my mind.
― based lord sotosyn (The Reverend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:30 (thirteen years ago) link
there is nothing ambitious about big boi's album
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:31 (thirteen years ago) link
otm. big boi album is less than the sum of its parts and some of the parts aren't even all that
― based lord sotosyn (The Reverend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:31 (thirteen years ago) link
^^ 2+2 = 5
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:32 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, maybe it would feel more like that if those songs came out back when they were actually recorded. but it sounds like ... i dunno. a collection of tracks recorded over the past four years. some v good, some ehh
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:32 (thirteen years ago) link
It just sort of makes sense given where Ye is these days and where p4k is these days.
this is otm
also carles is otm
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:33 (thirteen years ago) link
let me flip the script on u all-- the 10.0 is pitchforks "statement score"
I don't even get what's that ambitious about MDTF itself - I get that the marketing, the good fridays, the multiple cover arts, the huge guest lists are ambitious etc., but what is 'musically ambitious' about this album?
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:33 (thirteen years ago) link
lol at calling sir luscious leftfoot ambitious when it's by the same guy that made aquemini and stankonia
― based lord sotosyn (The Reverend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:33 (thirteen years ago) link
hell, even idlewild was more ambitious
― based lord sotosyn (The Reverend), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:34 (thirteen years ago) link
I think that's what a lot of people have been arguing already itt, max
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:34 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i didnt read the thread
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:35 (thirteen years ago) link
andy k's review is great
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:35 (thirteen years ago) link
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
http://www.allmusic.com/album/my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-r2055009/review
agree about big boi, it's just a straight-up good album, and i can't deny that alex has a point about ambition/"importance"/etc.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:36 (thirteen years ago) link
hey max:
can we keep the number of ppl on ilx that post as fake carles to under 2
― J0rdan S., Monday, November 22, 2010 3:22 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Andy's one of my favorite R&B/hip-hop critics, but I don't care for sentences like "Whether loved or loathed, fully enjoyed or merely admired, this album should be regarded as a deeply fascinating accomplishment." I mean -- "No."
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Nothing exemplifies its contrasting elements and maniacal extravagance as much as “All of the Lights.” Rattling, raw, synthetic toms are embellished with brass, woodwinds, and strings. It’s a celebration of fame (“Fast cars, shooting stars”) and a lament of its consequences (“Restraining order/Can’t see my daughter”). Its making involved 42 people, including not one but two French horn players and over a dozen high-profile vocalists, only some of which are perceptible.
so Kanye is the broken social scene of rap
I get that the recording process was ambitious, but it doesn't sound ambitious, is all I'm sayin
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:37 (thirteen years ago) link
deej is right about big boi -- i think that you have to love it in spite of its staleness
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:38 (thirteen years ago) link
im not posting as fake carles i am just saying, real carles is otm
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i am posting as fake jhøshea