Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

there's more to 'quality' than your arbitrary subjective rating, when it comes to a large community of listeners discussing a record. things like context & narratives & relatability & consensus & etc

yes, which I have already noted.

i think 'there are no perfect albums!!' is a super nerdy/lame cop-out, basically

no one has claimed this.

what record, alfred, is so perfect & unmarred by flaws that it would deserve a 10.0 from pfork

thats according to you. maybe other ppl dont use the number system like its a math test score

How exactly would you use it in a manner that wouldn't be like a math test score that still makes it meaningful? You seem to be arguing that the rating is arbitrary, in which case why have it at all?

has any album got 9.9? that actually seems more ridiculous

xp oh sorry 'there havent been perfect albums in years'

How exactly would you use it in a manner that wouldn't be like a math test score that still makes it meaningful? You seem to be arguing that the rating is arbitrary, in which case why have it at all?

― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:21 AM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

of course it's arbitrary!! youre giving a numerical rating to a piece of art ...?

"oh man would've been a 10 but the fadeout at the end of track 7 is just too abrupt"

what record, alfred, is so perfect & unmarred by flaws that it would deserve a 10.0 from pfork

Your record of being a douchebag.

It is NOT arbitrary, it's subjective. There is a massive difference.

I mean, we're just having a conversation - what are you being so defensive about?

I've already said: I mean, you're right, Brainwasher, if you're claiming the album's excellence was but one criterion in awarding it a 10.

10.0 should be rare grades: it denotes perfection. Obviously PFM thinks this record deserves it.

― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is a really boring way of using a number system imo. PERFECTION is boring

― smangs of new york (deej), Monday, November 22, 2010 12:14 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so you're saying number ratings should only be used as a blunt instrument of kingmaking and market positioning, or at least that's the only interesting or exciting way to use them.

really i think the concept of "perfection" in art is itself boring, and that's the very reason i probably wouldn't give anything a 10. i'd rather listen to a 9 with intriguing flaws (which imo is the only reasonable best case scenario for this album, even if I wouldn't give it that) than a supposed 10 that beats you over the head with its importance and supposed untouchable status.

has any album got 9.9? that actually seems more ridiculous

― Noel 1 Silence 0 (blueski), Monday, 22 November 2010 17:21 (1 minute ago) Bookmark

there's more to 'quality' than your arbitrary subjective rating, when it comes to a large community of listeners discussing a record. things like context & narratives & relatability & consensus & etc

not sure i agree this is the "right" way to go about it, but there's def. more than quality at play w/r/t pfork ratings or any other publication -- which is why, for example, Best New Music tags are so predictable, because it's easy to guess which albums pfork will position as representing the 2010 PFORK AESTHETIC before it even hands out a rating

i certainly didn't predict the kanye 10.0 (didn't think they'd ever hand out another of these, reissues aside) but i was honestly confident it'd be the best-ranking album of 2010, or at least a 9.2, on par w/ big boi and lcd, and that's a testament to being able to predict "context & narratives & relatability & consensus & etc" that pfork will take into account -- has almost nothing to do w/ quality

ha thx prolego

my favourite album of the 00s is only an 8.4

has any album got 9.9? that actually seems more ridiculous

bjork's homogenic got a 9.9 back in the day

a quick google search gives a more comprehensive list:

Albums awarded a 9.9 rating

Some albums have been awarded a 9.9 upon original release or reissue:

* Björk – Homogenic
* Miles Davis – Live-Evil
* John Lennon – Imagine: Digitally Remastered and Remixed
* Silver Jews – American Water
* Various Artists – The Complete Motown Singles, Vol. 7: 1967

source: http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Pitchfork_Media#Albums_awarded_a_9.9_rating

the only one I remembered was the Silver Jews one (shoulda been a 10.0 imo)

so you're saying number ratings should only be used as a blunt instrument of kingmaking and market positioning, or at least that's the only interesting or exciting way to use them.

really i think the concept of "perfection" in art is itself boring, and that's the very reason i probably wouldn't give anything a 10. i'd rather listen to a 9 with intriguing flaws (which imo is the only reasonable best case scenario for this album, even if I wouldn't give it that) than a supposed 10 that beats you over the head with its importance and supposed untouchable status.

― vodka loko lame (some dude), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:23 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no, im saying that contextual concerns enter into the equation, that i agree no record is perfect but otoh not giving out 10.0's because you acknowledge that no piece of human art can attain perfection is grumpy old man shit & that handing out a 10.0 once in awhile is more fun

dont know why alfred thinks im being a jerk here?? i just disagree

xpost also someone posted that same exact thing just before u lol

i also think that if they had given it something in the upper 9s half the ppl here would be on some "why didnt they just give it a 10???" ish bcuz folks just like disagreeing

hope this 10.0 means pitchfork are going to give out the 10.0 ranking more often now.

i'm not saying nobody should ever give something a 10.0 if they really feel it's warranted, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem warranted here and it seems to be done for reasons that are more insidious than just "fun"

not saying kanye should be pfork's pitck bcuz of marketing, but bcuz its a record that hits a lot of aesthetic points for pfork's audience, btw -- that it 'makes sense' as a 10.0 record!

1o.0

but otoh not giving out 10.0's because you acknowledge that no piece of human art can attain perfection is grumpy old man shit & that handing out a 10.0 once in awhile is more fun

this this this

"insidious"!

feels like maybe dyed-in-the-wool indies resent pitchfork for breaking its long 10.0 silence to celebrate a MAINSTREAM COMMERCIAL RAPPER — would've been okay if some out-of-nowhere dudes turned into 'the animal collective of 2k11' and made an album that is a testament to the relevance of the indie lifestyle

i'm not saying nobody should ever give something a 10.0 if they really feel it's warranted, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem warranted here and it seems to be done for reasons that are more insidious than just "fun"

― vodka loko lame (some dude), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:31 AM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ooooh what are these insidious, conspiratorial motives?? do tell

i mean do u really think most of pfork's staff doesnt like this record?

when will p4k reveal their evil plan?

feels like maybe dyed-in-the-wool indies resent pitchfork for breaking its long 10.0 silence to celebrate a MAINSTREAM COMMERCIAL RAPPER — would've been okay if some out-of-nowhere dudes turned into 'the animal collective of 2k11' and made an album that is a testament to the relevance of the indie lifestyle

― underplayed junior boys remixes I have forgotten were on my comp (bernard snowy), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:33 AM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark

what hipster is willing to give a hipster musical plaudits of 10.0?? this seems more pforkian imo

most of them prefer /\/\/\Y/\ secretly

when will p4k reveal their evil plan?

Watch: Gorillaz Cover the xx

I think they just did

idgi thought this record was p.average. not reading this thread, is this the prevailing view? what to make sure I'm aligned w/the consensus.

should've called it 'long ass songs' tbqfh

xxxpost no the point is that pfork isn't hipster anymore — they're not interested in finding 'the obscure new thing' but in getting way to excited about the thing that everyone KNOWS is good — it's 'the new sincerity'

*way TOO excited; *kills self*

my favourite album of the 00s is only an 8.4

... which is? :)

lol dan

lol

no opinion on what 10 does or doesn't/should or shouldn't mean but fwiw all my shit deserves at least a 10, me and that dolphins band I've been telling you guys about. taking over in 2011 fyi

^^^ OTM

the album has made pleasant background music for the last ~30 minutes of talking about the album — just sorta drifting off, tuning back in when it gets interesting

goats/dolphins '12

... which is? :)

Studio (actually it might be 8.8 i must check 'nolife.xls' when i get home)

I should make that my new interview look, just turn all the conversations back to "why the fuck don't I have, minimum, 3 10s? everybody knows I deserve that shit, hook me up with a 10 pitchfork, right thing to do imo"

dolphins w/horns
(skalphins?)

I'd say studio is a 10.0

dude aero I'm sure you'll get some lovin' when the deluxe reissues drop

yeah 8 means 10.0 for me pretty much don't sweat it

Of course the audio spin-off of Kanye's growing pains would get just the "ten" from us