Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

actually pretty sure this is all art criticism forever

dudes did you guys hear van gogh cut off his own fucking ear, hardcore

― congratulations (n/a), Monday, November 22, 2010 4:23 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ha I was going to get there eventually

― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Monday, November 22, 2010 4:30 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

tbh I think going gaga for Kanye's monomania makes more sense than going gaga for R. Kelly's "Trapped In The Closet", possibly because it is rather unambiguously about Kanye and his failings and not presented as some weird R&B/hip-hop telenovela crossed with "a peek into the lives of black people" nonsense

yeah. that's a good point.

okay I just put the album on my comp and am abt to listen, will stop spouting off uninformedly

"can we get much higher" — sure, I'm down if u want to

can youuuuuuu takeeee meee hhhiiigggheer

hooray markers is here

just made it thru "power" and I'm already tired

As it stands, it reads as a dude you know attempting to convince you using empirical evidence that this is the best album of the year and failing miserably because he is exuding uncritical fanboyishness out of every pore, causing muddled comparisons and rampant overselling of things that, if they are as good as he says they are, would speak for themselves.

Welcome to music writing, DJP. Take a chair.

"power" is phenomenal -- my fav thing i've heard from the album proper, thus far

xp

Welcome to music writing, DJP. Take a chair.

and break it against someone's head.

done and done

brb, running from security

just curious -- and again this is coming from someone who isnt really coming back to this record all that much -- what record that pfork reviews SHOULD get a 10.0 if not kanye's art-prog-rap? what record makes more sense as a 10.0? i kinda feel like -- & again, i have little invested in the perception of the site, but from an editorial perspective -- can you think of a better record to represent pfork's aesthetic outlook? anyone who says big boi gets a chop & a muff

Janelle Monae

(hoping for a rib and a clam)

but so 'retro'! not popular enough!

well also not a serious suggestion

10.0 should be rare grades: it denotes perfection. Obviously PFM thinks this record deserves it.

I haven't heard any 10.0 records in years.

I think people are just saying that scores should reflect the quality and listenability of a record and not the editorial perspective and aesthetic outlook of the publication giving the score?

xpost - Alfred otm. sometimes i'm not sure i've every heard a 10/10

i just think if p4k was going to go all out and make a big event~ out of giving it a 10.0 they should have given it a far better written & more convincing review. i was more interested in picking up the record by reading tom ewing's ten bullet points on tumblr.

yeah deej otm in that this is the only album that it makes sense to give a 10 to - regardless of the quality of it - there's more to it than that, the narrative is there, it feels like a 10.0 album even if it doesn't necessarily sound like one to you personally?

btw i'd been holding onto some Be Here Now zings about this record for a minute, pissed at you guys for beating me to it

ilxor — yeah, "power" was my favorite thing I'd heard coming into this album — I got nothing against it except that it's at least a minute too long, which wouldn't be so bad if the two tracks before it weren't also... 'shit adds up'

"all of the lights" is a p.dramatic change of pace — and "monster" right after it, even moreso!

There's more to an album than its quality?

talking about how the "narrative" "feels" is kind of a way of saying that people had this on their year-end list probably before the first or second single dropped.

10.0 should be rare grades: it denotes perfection. Obviously PFM thinks this record deserves it.

― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is a really boring way of using a number system imo. PERFECTION is boring

they most likely did though

I think people are just saying that scores should reflect the quality and listenability of a record and not the editorial perspective and aesthetic outlook of the publication giving the score?

xpost - Alfred otm. sometimes i'm not sure i've every heard a 10/10

― vodka loko lame (some dude), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

or maybe an overlap of the 2?

I mean, you're right, Brainwasher, if you're claiming the album's excellence was but one criterion in awarding it a 10.

um, if it was boring it wouldn't be perfect

^^^ exactly

deej is kind of touching on this but I do think it's interesting that 10.0 seems to equal "perfection" but what makes this album fascinating/enjoyable to me is its imperfection

There's more to an album than its quality?

― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:13 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

there's more to 'quality' than your arbitrary subjective rating, when it comes to a large community of listeners discussing a record. things like context & narratives & relatability & consensus & etc

maybe it's just me, but if I was bored by something there is no way I would describe it as "perfect"

possibly "pristine" or "immaculate" if I was being nice or "unsurprising" or "uninspired" if I wasn't, but "perfect" is supposed to be a positive, isn't it?

xp: that's because, when they work, flaws are considered idiosyncrasies

well that's what makes it fascinating/enjoyable to me as an object/album/concept, really I just like fun songs

what makes this album fascinating/enjoyable to me is its imperfection

Yeah, this makes sense, and more than half the albums I love are lovable precisely because they're imperfect. But if a 10.0 is the equivalent of an A+, then to me it means there's nothing – not a note – wrong with the album.

i think 'there are no perfect albums!!' is a super nerdy/lame cop-out, basically

xp yeah, I'm not saying the actual quality of the record is not important, but there are a host of other things that make it the kind of album that it makes sense to give a 10 to - more contextual elements (impact, kanye's public persona/ the "narrative", etc.)

10.0 = unlike anything else u will hear this year (unless it's 2002, or a radiohead album or important reissue came out this year)

Yeah, this makes sense, and more than half the albums I love are lovable precisely because they're imperfect. But if a 10.0 is the equivalent of an A+, then to me it means there's nothing – not a note – wrong with the album.

― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:18 AM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark

thats according to you. maybe other ppl dont use the number system like its a math test score

there's more to 'quality' than your arbitrary subjective rating, when it comes to a large community of listeners discussing a record. things like context & narratives & relatability & consensus & etc

yes, which I have already noted.

i think 'there are no perfect albums!!' is a super nerdy/lame cop-out, basically

no one has claimed this.

what record, alfred, is so perfect & unmarred by flaws that it would deserve a 10.0 from pfork

thats according to you. maybe other ppl dont use the number system like its a math test score

How exactly would you use it in a manner that wouldn't be like a math test score that still makes it meaningful? You seem to be arguing that the rating is arbitrary, in which case why have it at all?

has any album got 9.9? that actually seems more ridiculous

xp oh sorry 'there havent been perfect albums in years'

How exactly would you use it in a manner that wouldn't be like a math test score that still makes it meaningful? You seem to be arguing that the rating is arbitrary, in which case why have it at all?

― ali-baba-boob-job-bomb.jpg (DJP), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:21 AM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

of course it's arbitrary!! youre giving a numerical rating to a piece of art ...?

"oh man would've been a 10 but the fadeout at the end of track 7 is just too abrupt"

what record, alfred, is so perfect & unmarred by flaws that it would deserve a 10.0 from pfork

Your record of being a douchebag.

It is NOT arbitrary, it's subjective. There is a massive difference.

I mean, we're just having a conversation - what are you being so defensive about?

I've already said: I mean, you're right, Brainwasher, if you're claiming the album's excellence was but one criterion in awarding it a 10.

10.0 should be rare grades: it denotes perfection. Obviously PFM thinks this record deserves it.

― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is a really boring way of using a number system imo. PERFECTION is boring

― smangs of new york (deej), Monday, November 22, 2010 12:14 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so you're saying number ratings should only be used as a blunt instrument of kingmaking and market positioning, or at least that's the only interesting or exciting way to use them.

really i think the concept of "perfection" in art is itself boring, and that's the very reason i probably wouldn't give anything a 10. i'd rather listen to a 9 with intriguing flaws (which imo is the only reasonable best case scenario for this album, even if I wouldn't give it that) than a supposed 10 that beats you over the head with its importance and supposed untouchable status.