An open letter to ILX & mods re: an alternative to the current system

i will let my pope speak for me.

― sarahel, Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:13 PM (5 minutes ago)

I really would like the answer straight from you.

obv it won't -- obv the idea that multiple sb victims like jagger/whiney/cankles etc would be 'reformed' by a post flagging system is absurd -- the sb system does that better because after your second sb you get threatened w/ being kicked off the board

yeah, gbx, but how often is that the end of the discussion/clusterfuck?

I love this argument that clearly the SB system continues to work completely perfectly, because we have clearly absolutely 0 clusterfucks any more, no problems,

the response to that is that those things always happened, under any system. you'll need more justification than that, because i'm pretty sure that there's been lass clusterfuckery since sb came in?

everyone comes back from their 30 days perfectly behaving themselves and no one ever gets SB'd multiple times because they have magically via ESP been completely reformed and come back as magically better people (not at all bitter or angry or even just repeating the same things.) Yes! This is completely the truuuuuuuuuuuuth. In a magical wonderland that has nothing to do with ILX as it is right now.

it's unfortunately not the truth, but tbh it's not up to the rest of us how anyone wants to behave on ilx. we do have the sb utton though, maybe people should take that into account? i dunno.

altho tbf i sb kate and every woman on the board because i hate women -- somehow i wish they would understand this better

i feel like everyone should have to enter demographic info, and then we could just across the board sb all users that based on demographic info that we find distasteful, because of how everyone sbs kate because she's a woman

WmC - I was previously banned for engaging in meta-clusterfuckery. I was making a joke based on my "reputation"

altho tbf i sb kate and every woman on the board because i hate women -- somehow i wish they would understand this better

― J0rdan S., Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:26 PM (1 second ago)

I would like to request a conversation of civility and earnestness, not snark.

those who H8 me for things I cannot change (I am a woman)

earnestness!

-Flagging a post means that a problem is dealt with, there and then, rather than up to 6 months later, which the current SB system allows

-Flagging a post tells the "culprit" that "it was this post here, where you called Poster X a hairy goatfucker which made 17 people flag you for bestiality" instead of them desperately thinking "what was it? was it that time I told Dan he had dangleberries? was it the time I picked Revolver over Sgt Pepper? was it the time I got a bit heated over Cameron/Clegg slash? Or something I've completely forgotten I even said?" You can pretend people know exactly what the problem was. They don't.

-Flagging a post not a poster means that the focus is on *behaviour* not on the individual. Because even me, crazy cat lady that everyone HAAAAAAAAATES, starts threads about Astronomy Picture of the Day or shit that lots of people enjoy. Almost every poster on this board is capable of *both* clusterfuckery *and* good fun threads with pithy posts. The SB system as it is makes no differentiation. It could, and it should.

god grant me the serenity ...

if you annoy 51 different ppl in any 'community', seems fair that those 51 ppl can have a break from you for a month or so

Hey, I've just given my first SB in this thread. I wish I had been able to just flag up "I find this post unacceptable" instead, but I don't have that option.

Now I'm going to go, because you are really getting on my damn fibroids, Jordan.

Hey, I've just given my first SB in this thread. I wish I had been able to just flag up "I find this post unacceptable" instead, but I don't have that option.

Now I'm going to go, because you are really getting on my damn fibroids, Jordan.

― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:31 PM (1 second ago) Bookmark

flagged this post for bestiality

to accept the things i can't change ...

actually i should stop the snark -- i flagged the post because i hate you because you're a woman that resists rape culture

the courage to change the things i can ...

j0rdan srsly, yr gonna get tempbanned if you carry on thusly

Ok Kate as a vocal opponent of sb, please explain to me why you have given out over 30 of them, because that seems pretty counterintuitive to me.

and the wisdom to know the difference between the two

many xposts but i'm w/kate here

main difference is that ~flagging~ anonymously happens silently, and is only visible to the mods. they can then investigate the offending post, and decide from there if it merits further action. if ppl lol flag a post from an ilxor they personally dislike, it'll be pretty obvious to whatever moderators check it out. SBs can accumulate for reasons that have nothing do w/actually offensive behavior (by ilx community standards), and once they fire, they fire. but if a poster keeps getting innocuous posts flagged, they won't necessarily get the boot.

what's funny is that the anonymity of SBing is why it can be misused, but is also precisely why flagging is a good idea. if someone thinks a post is offensive for maybe personal reasons, they should be able to raise the alarm w/o starting a mod request thread saying "i think, personally, that this post is gross/racist/whatever" and inviting recrimination. or having to email a mod directly, etc.

I have tempbanned J0rdan

calling people by their real SBs when shit gets heated

Suggest Ban Permalink

if you annoy 51 different ppl in any 'community', seems fair that those 51 ppl can have a break from you for a month or so

― Ward Fowler, Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:31 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark

what if there are 500 people who don't want you banished? where is their vote?

xp - i was unclear on whether the flagging would be public or private

i think the mods should come up with a system that changes for each individual so that nobody ever gets banned, except for the things i want them to get banned for.

^^^ nail on the head

An ideal outcome right now would be several people flagging Jordan for "ad hominem" and a helpful mod comes along, yellow cards him saying "enough snark" and then threadbans him if he doesn't knock it off.

Wouldn't that produce a better immediate outcome than him just getting SB'd two weeks down the road when everyone's forgotten what this thread was even about?

amen

would like to register protest at jordan getting tempbanned for lowerin himself to the tone of the debate

those 500 people are all socks tho
xps

In the heat of passionate clusterfucks, won't people get even more defensive and then irate if they're all of a sudden notified that they're offending people? Maybe not, I'm just spitballing here.

would like to hear from my pope on this matter tbrr

x-post thank you WmC

dmac did you actually read what j0rdan was saying? come on man

j0rdan was being a dick in this thread

like, I <3 the guy usually but he's the only person who's ever driven me to SB out of rage - his handling of sensitive meta-debate is inflammatory at best

i read all the posts lj.

J0rdan: unless another mod unbans you, you're gone for 15 days. A polite request was made, you ignored it. then you made a rape joke to someone who's made it clear that she's a rape survivor. why shouldn't this be a permaban?

because a permaban would be way too harsh

An ideal outcome right now would be several people flagging Jordan for "ad hominem" and a helpful mod comes along, yellow cards him saying "enough snark" and then threadbans him if he doesn't knock it off.

I find your constant statements that the general posting public sbs you for being a woman far far more insulting and offensive than anything j0rdan said on this thread.

Hey, I've just given my first SB in this thread. I wish I had been able to just flag up "I find this post unacceptable" instead, but I don't have that option.

this time next week k8 is giving sb's for lols & loving it, gateway drugs are a whole thing man

xps wow

for real, from a purely "what is modding for" perspective, SBs don't make as much sense as flags. if the intent of modding is to keep things relatively civil (according to community standards, obv...derails are a part of ilx, but obv wouldn't be tolerated on loads of other boards), then letting the community police itself by anonymous tipline makes more sense than automatic jailtime given w/o evaluation. i know kate has maybe played up the "omg everyone hates me!" thing, but i guarantee she's holding SBs for no reason other than ppl think she's irritating, which is whack.

that being said: the hugest obstacle to all of this is, as it always is, actually implementing it. i can't program for shit, so unless stet or whoever thinks flags are a dece idea and feel like pursuing it, i think we're stuck with what we've got

An ideal outcome right now would be several people flagging Jordan for "ad hominem" and a helpful mod comes along, yellow cards him saying "enough snark" and then threadbans him if he doesn't knock it off.

Wouldn't that produce a better immediate outcome than him just getting SB'd two weeks down the road when everyone's forgotten what this thread was even about?

― Karen D. Tregaskin, Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:35 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

guys this is srsly the most reasonable thing itt, kate is otm

jordan's post was out of order, a threadban would definitely have been merited were it possible, but before it's painted as a rape joke lol fuck that guy, it was actually a direct response to two or three items KDT's list of all the reasons she might have been sb'd in the past, all of which were pretty damned facetious and in line with the tone of forced confusion that permeates this thread.

xp what jjj said.

from st4ckoverflow.com:

What if I see bad things happening?

Please use our flagging system to let us know about it. Each comment has a small flag icon, and every post has a flag menu at the bottom. Take advantage of it! We actively moderate our community, but we need your help to do so. Anything that is getting consistently flagged by our community members will be investigated and followed up on. And of course you can always email us directly if you feel the matter is extremely urgent.

hold on, 30 sbs issued sounds like a lot to me - is that a lot? is there an average?

a threadban was possible; I gave a sitewide tempban instead

stet or whoever thinks flags are a dece idea and feel like pursuing it, i think we're stuck with what we've got

^^^ real talk

I mean as I said earlier, I'm guessing anybody on here could learn to code but they "don't have enough time" or w/e (as if the mods here don't have day jobs & lives & sometimes kids & plenty of other shit they could be doing...oh no am I kissing mods' asses by not being a knee-jerk infantile cockface to them? sry Lamp wld h8 to disappoint u) -- if you won't take the time to use yr god-given brain to design a new system & offer it up, then you don't have any complaint coming, is my opinion -- and I know everybody was v. keen to learn what my opinion was so now u have it

automatic jailtime given w/o evaluation

Again, this isn't how it works. Mods review every post when someone gets 51ed.