The Cronenberg Thread

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Definitely.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 03:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

A lot of his short stories would translate well into films. As would probably his last three novels. Cocaine Nights and Super Cannes expecially, seeing as they paint such a good visual image throughout.

Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 03:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

And I reckon Cronenberg would be the best director for his stuff.

Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 03:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

i like him so much i will be a bit upset if someone says he sucks. 'rabid' was kind of shit tho

franken-vader, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 03:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

i think that crash is brilliant--a conflation of machine and flesh that continues and expands his themes (which are the themes of all of us--it takes the la of five ecologies and turns it on), that is isolating, slick, beautiful, erotic, well versed and morally complicated.

i think it is the best film formally he has made

anthony, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 03:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ugh Cocaine Nights is terrible. No one should direct that.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 03:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

xpost
Did you really find it erotic, though?

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

Formally, yes. Sexually, no.

Just Kidding (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

actually thats a perfect answer

anthony, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't know what "formally erotic" means, but I do understand why it's the perfect answer. May also explain my disconnect from the movie.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ebart: "Cronenberg has made a movie that is pornographic in form, but not in result. Take out the cars, the scars, the crutches and scabs and wounds, and substitute the usual props of sex films, and you'd have a porno movie."

So, yes. Ebert liked it way more than I did, though.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

I thought Spider was a total z. At least Crash was unintentionally funny. I find the stuff really entertaining but I think the 80s were his peak - charismatic leads help make his style a little less starchy.

POV:
Dead Ringers
Dead Zone
Scanners
Videodrome
The Fly

I really want to see Shivers.

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

That should be I find the early stuff

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

shivers is great, like if romero directed an orgy flick

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 04:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and Howard Shore music scores for Videodrome, Crash & Scanners... FUCKING CLASSIC.

Sasha (sgh), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

yeah I saw a lot of clips of Shivers on an IFC documentary about horror films back in 2000 (I turned 21 that October, freaked out and spent every weekend eating pizza and watching tons of Craven, Romero and Cronenberg films on the station - all hosted by Tom Savini!) and it looked terrific.

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

charismatic leads help make his style a little less starchy

Not that I find his style starchy -- more like gooey (ha) -- but as the Star Wars threads (and esp. movies) have reminded me, it doesn't just take a good actor to be a good actor. It takes a relatively decent filmmaker as well. Th fact that Cronenberg consistently gets such good actors and such good stuff out of them is a testament to his ability to work with actors, and that's a laudable talent. Makes the movies better for all of us. A round of applause, please, for Goldblum in The Fly and Irons in Dead Ringers and even Jude Law in eXistenZ. Cronenberg doesn't always give these guys top-shelf material to work with, I won't argue that, but he apparently gives them the room to actually *act* in movies that are not perfect, and that's good direction.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

apparently cronenberg's gonna make a movie out of london fields - i'm quite curious about this!

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

You're kidding. I need a link.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0404207/ - admittedly just 'announced', with no status update for over a year so, hmmm, maybe not so likely to happen. i'd see that movie for sure though.

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oh, I could have looked that up myself. I was hoping for an article.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

Holy shit a DC London Fields would be NICE.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yes. Yes it would.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

I can't tell if its a shame or not that he never got to do Basic Instinct 2. It almost happened!

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

If he'd done the first one, it would have been a great movie. It almost was anyway, but it lacked any subtext whatsoever.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

TS: verhoeven vs. cronenberg

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

Holy shit a DC London Fields would be NICE.

It COULD be, depending on many, many things. At least the very thought doesn't make me want to die like pretty much any other director on this shit would.

box of socks, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

I love every Cronenberg movie I've seen but The Brood is my favorite. I made my girlfriend watch it and not only was she totally creeped out and disturbed but shortly after that she became pregnant. We have a good laugh about that now and then.

I always feel compelled to compare Cronenberg to David Lynch and as much as I admire Lynch, I think Cronenberg is much more successful at doing the same types of things Lynch attempts. For example while Lynch flirts with bad acting, camp, b-movie conventions, and general awkwardness, Cronenberg seems to operate in that territory quite naturally. He kind of skirts a thin line between the arthouse and schlocky failure that I find very exciting. Where other directors working in a similar vein might come across as too clever and knowing, Cronenberg manages to make movies that can be truly confounding and get the most intense reactions out of people.

So anyway, I think he's very underrated. Crash and Naked Lunch in particular are quite underrated. Total classic.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

I forgot to mention: search his appearance in the film Last Night.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

At least Crash was unintentionally funny.

Really? Unintentionally?

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 05:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

Doesn't matter if you're describing Crash as "funny" or "unintentionally funny," you're still missing the point.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 06:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

Here I am again, defending a movie I don't even like.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 06:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

I've never read the book so I'll admit I'm probably missing the point. Still, it's a great film on its own merits.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 06:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

Don't taunt me like that. It's own merits are not great, so... you can grok the rest of my arguments from there.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 06:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

What is your argument exactly? Crash is not great because you didn't like it and people who enjoyed it are missing the point? Finding humor in the movie is wrong because... why exactly? If the humor was intentional it betrayed the source material? Or if was unintentional then it's not worth enjoying? I'm not trying to taunt you but I'm curious what someone who otherwise likes Cronenberg would have against Crash (other than deviation from the source).

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 06:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

Now you've really lost me. You though it was supposed to be funny?

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 07:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

I mean, if you thought it was intentionally funny you did not see hte same movie as I did. If you though it was unintentionally funny ... well, I don't quite know what to think about that.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 07:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

POV Cronenberg:

Shivers
Naked Lunch
Videodrome
ExistenZ
Dead Ringers

I like Crash and The Fly, too, and Scanners (although I was anticipating the head-blowing-up scene too much to really appreciate much else of the film).

emil.y (emil.y), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 10:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Best Cronenberg moment ever might be in Scanners when the main character is ambushed in the artist's barn-studio and his psychic counter-attack is portrayed as the most ridiculously hammy head swing and grimace into the camera. It looks like a castmember of Fame playing "tough".

Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 10:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

Crash and Fight Club are amazing fetish movies.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 14:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

What, no mention of DC's star turn in Friday The 13th: Space Travel Sucks? FOR SHAME!

I'm not the biggest fan of Crash, but I think a lot of that has to do w/ the subject matter (and the portrayal of it) (the fierce unyielding atavistic obsession the characters have re: the fetish), so I'm thinking the movie worked really well. I'm thinking "atavistic obsession" could summarize DC's career succinctly.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 14:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

"last night"!

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 16:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

New DVD of Dead Ringers June 7.

slightly more subdued (kenan), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 16:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

scanners
dead ringers
videodrome
dead zone
crash

the only other director who can finesse some of the same essence out of a scenario the way that he can is nicolas roeg. they're working in two different arenas, in general, but both are adept at channeling the anxiety of being an awkward fleshy thing with a brittle skeleton beneath, and i very much like the endings in their films. and the beginnings middles and rests too.

ok, strike the only out of that sentence. i hate that kinda talk.

firstworldman (firstworldman), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 16:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

i already have the previous criterion edition of dead ringers, is this the same thing just reissued or a whole new DVD with new features?

latebloomer: B Minus Time Traveler (latebloomer), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 16:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

anyway firstworlddude otm

latebloomer: B Minus Time Traveler (latebloomer), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 16:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

DVD Features:

* Commentary by Jeremy Irons
* Behind-the-scenes featurette
* Cast/filmmaker interviews and filmographies
* Dead Ringers Psychological Profiler (menu-based quiz)
* Theatrical trailer

ok, i see. still im not gonna need to buy this. the criterion edition from a few years back has much better features.

latebloomer: B Minus Time Traveler (latebloomer), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 17:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

Dead Ringers
eXistenZ
Videodrome
Crash
Scanners

I'm going to shock everyone by saying that Existenz is probably the one I enjoy the most.

I adore eXistenZ, it's incredibly funny! Poor Jude Law's excessive uptightness really makes it.

I like just about everything Cronenberg's ever done, including Crash. When I lived in Paris the Cahiers du Cinema people did a big retrospective, they screened all his films and brought Cronenberg there to give a few talks & such. He is super nice and seemed rather surprised by all the attention from that realm, i.e. the film scholar/auteur worshipping contingent instead of, you know, Fangoria. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

As part of the retrospective they had an exhibition of various props and plans and things from his films.. This turned out to be extremely hilarious, because on the ground floor of the same building there happened to be an exhibition of a century's worth of advertising art for Lu, the dessert company. So you'd walk in and it was all bright sunlight and cheery vintage Art Nouveau posters and candy and cookies, and then you got to go downstairs to this gloomy, dark basement (really!) and look at tools for operating on mutant women. I wonder if Cronenberg ever made it over there to see what they'd done, I think he would have been amused.

xpost
Holy shit, "psychological profiler"? That's messed up. Awesome.

daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 17:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

'Shivers' is great. Remove the parasites and you have almost an adaptation of Ballard's 'High Rise.'

robertw, Tuesday, 24 May 2005 18:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

There might not be a contemporary director whose fans vary so widely on what his best and worst work is. I even know some people who would call Dead Ringers his great sellout.

Personally, I think I like Crash and The Dead Zone the best.

L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 18:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

Naked Lunch, the first I saw in the theater, is my favorite cinematic gloss on a novel. He wrote good dry-as-sand dialogue that I can imagine Benway and Joan saying, Peter Weller and Roy Scheider are quite well cast, etc.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:28 (1 month ago) Permalink

I keep coming back to Scanners remembering that cold, beige, terminally '70s look it has, but then getting disappointed it doesn't do as much with the material as the two films on either side of it.

Eric H., Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:31 (1 month ago) Permalink

v true

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:31 (1 month ago) Permalink

it includes these rote action movie gestures (a car chase!) that just seem awkward

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:32 (1 month ago) Permalink

Howard Shore saves large chunks of it by really clearing his throat.

Eric H., Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

NL also my intro to Ornette Coleman.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:34 (1 month ago) Permalink

the brood does so much more with "cold, beige, terminally 70s".

describing a scene in which the Hulk gets a boner (contenderizer), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:34 (1 month ago) Permalink

I'm gonna have to re-watch the Brood when the wife is out of town or something, cuz last time she made me turn it off cuz the murderous kids were "too disturbing"

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:35 (1 month ago) Permalink

the brood does so much more with "cold, beige, terminally 70s".

so do pics of Jimmy Carter

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:37 (1 month ago) Permalink

I agree and disagree with that list in about equal measure. And I hated their #1 (found it the wrong kind of campy) at the time, although I've never taken a second look.

1. The Dead Zone
2. The Fly
3. Dead Ringers
4. Videodrome
5. The Brood

Haven't seen Fast Company, M. Butterfly, Eastern Promises, or the new one. I've seen at least one of Rabid and/or Shivers, possibly both--if only one, I'm not 100% sure which.

clemenza, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:38 (1 month ago) Permalink

you guys mean the films of the era when u say "70s," right, cuz i was dere, Cholly.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:40 (1 month ago) Permalink

did you get a senior citizen discount when watching Hopscotch?

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:41 (1 month ago) Permalink

cold, beige, terminally '70s look it has

Yes! Especially love the shopping mall at the start of Scanners - a Canadian cousin to the mall in Dawn of the Dead.

I think my overwhelming preference for the early, gory ones - and my disappointment with pretty much everything after Dead Ringers - is tied up with seeing them for the first time as VHS 'video nasties' in the early 1980s, at just the right teenaged frame of mind. The visual dirt of degraded VHS rental tapes gave those films an ugly energy and illicit attraction; so something like Dangerous Method can't help but seem pallid in comparison.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:45 (1 month ago) Permalink

optometrists' convention in videodrome nails that same, dreary vibe

describing a scene in which the Hulk gets a boner (contenderizer), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:46 (1 month ago) Permalink

one of my first solo R-rateds was a doublebill of Animal House/Putney Swope in my hometown, and i was even younger than some of your recent tricks! xxp

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:48 (1 month ago) Permalink

one of the many things i like about the brood is how effectively it situates a cluster of dated-seeming 70s design artifacts (ferns, white wrought iron furniture, wood paneling, turtlenecks, geometrical desk accents, deep pile) as forward-thinking chic

describing a scene in which the Hulk gets a boner (contenderizer), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:49 (1 month ago) Permalink

nothing dates like the future

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

all serious films set in the future are about the present.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:52 (1 month ago) Permalink

well yeah

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:54 (1 month ago) Permalink

all serious films set in the past are about vietnam

describing a scene in which the Hulk gets a boner (contenderizer), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 23:00 (1 month ago) Permalink

誤訳侮辱 - how did eXistenZ end up in the first list too if it's one of the worst films by anybody?

Cut 'n' pasted the list from an earlier poster, then reshuffled - forgot to delete eXistenZ after moving it.

the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 23:43 (1 month ago) Permalink

all serious films set in the present are about the internet

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 23:45 (1 month ago) Permalink

All serious films set in the internet are about me.

Eric H., Wednesday, 25 February 2015 23:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

eXistenZ Is great and not just because it's about Eric

mh, Thursday, 26 February 2015 01:10 (1 month ago) Permalink

Sometimes my fave Cronenberg is his "Camera" short. Like a modern sideways sequel to "Videodrome."

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 February 2015 02:24 (1 month ago) Permalink

and my disappointment with pretty much everything after Dead Ringers - is tied up with seeing them for the first time as VHS 'video nasties' in the early 1980s, at just the right teenaged frame of mind.

My like of Crash might be tied up w/seeing stories of it being 'banned' in Westminster. Shit was hilarious.

Even so Crash is top five for me, although I need a retrospective to catch more of the earlier work.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 26 February 2015 11:01 (1 month ago) Permalink

I saw Camera several years ago and couldn't make sense of it, I'd like to hear your interpretation Josh. I wondered if he would make that type of film more often if he could.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 26 February 2015 16:51 (1 month ago) Permalink

Well, let's jog the ol' memory. I recall it as a monologue from Cronenberg regular Leslie Carlson, about the scary power of film, the way film essentially kills things as it preserves them. But of course, the monologue is filmed in conspicuous digital, as children rush around, setting up for an actual film shoot. Then the monologue stops and the movie suddenly shifts to actual startling film, and the monologue begins again. Only this time Carlson freaks out and it suddenly cuts, because he has been trapped in film and is therefore now ... dead? I dunno. It's on youtube:

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 February 2015 20:24 (1 month ago) Permalink

'maps to the stars' is avail streaming/ondemand fyi

p good i thought, seems so obvious it would be written by bruce wagner once i saw his name come up @ the end, def does the satire of hollywood better than the family tragedy & weighty elements; juilianne moores part is a great role, and one that most actresses could prob not pull off

johnny crunch, Saturday, 28 February 2015 15:53 (1 month ago) Permalink

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johnny crunch, Saturday, 28 February 2015 16:03 (1 month ago) Permalink


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