Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

nd ask yourself not what the guy who wrote those words means by them, but what you mean by them. And write that down. And if you risk those words - your words - here, you'll get a friendlier response.

First you listen to a song a dozen or so times. It's the relistening that first begins to signal to you. Maybe you aren't thinking during those first dozen or so times that you were compelled. It's only after, when your iTunes counter reads 15, or 23, or 37, that the compulsion is revealed.

It came to me after listening to Britney's 'Piece of Me' 18 times. I realized that it wasn't just the ferocious beat, the sarcastic moaning, the defiant fist pump in her voice, the sex in her vocals, that compelled me to listen to her. Or rather, it was all those things, but there was something more, too.

"You want a piece of me," is the central phrase in the song. It is Britney giving everyone a 'fuck you.' A 'piece of me' is a challenge, a lip-curled beckoning. You're going to talk trash about me? she's asking, Well come get some.

But it doesn't just mean that. It's also a declarative, an announcement. She's telling you something. She's telling you that you want a piece of her. And the two meanings are linked. You want a piece of her, and that's why you keep tearing her down, so you want a piece of me? I'll beat the shit out of you.

At first I thought this was an Eminem'esque song, where you take the ammo out of your enemies' quivers before they can shoot them. It makes beating them easier. But the truth is, her self-degredation is so much more. She's showing you that anything you can bring, she can bring harder. You've come to expect that she's the crying girl you see on television, or the bad mother, or the wife who makes dumb choices of mates. But she knows what you think, and as hard as you can hurt her, she hurts herself so much harder, and thus, she can hurt you so much more.

I tend to have a few modes when listening to female pop stars. I either love them (Rihanna, Joni Mitchell), or I want to protect them like my little sister (Aly + AJ), or they seem like this motherly figure (Carole King, Madonna). And some of that relates, I'm sure, to the Madonna-Whore Complex.

But Britney, with this song and this album, becomes so much more. This is what I think of myself as. I feel like this song. I feel like I need to put myself in people's faces. Like I need to carve out a place before anyone can carve it for me. And when people complain (I'm too loud, too outspoken, too mean, just too strange), I need to tell them "You want a piece of me?" in both ways. That they better get lost, and that they better know that they want a piece of me.

(And btw, Lex, this is exactly the kind of song I was talking about on the earlier thread: The kind of song that risks itself, and the artist risks herself, and the song risks the listener.)

Oh, also, I wanted to attribute that quote, but it was Frank talking about a kid asking about Subterranean Homesick Blues.

I never, ever listen to songs over and over on repeat, I never have and suspect I never will. In fact, I don't think I've ever listened to a song more than 2 times in succession, maybe 3.

For those of y'all with any inclination of voting some Keke Palmer onto your year-end lists, "Game Song" has a video and should probably count as a single in 2007.

Re: my earlier comments about Lip Gloss' odd lack of success...

I don't think it's fair to compare its quick drop to something like "Never Again" or "Rehab." They belong to completely different genres. Also, neither is infectious as "Lip Gloss."

If a girl released "Crank Dat," I really doubt it would take off.

Adding to "See You Again" (probably will be my #1 single of the year) discussion, it is the #1 Miley song on last.fm by a huge margin. 470 listeners, compared to 177 for the second place song ("Let's Dance"). And that with apparently no push by the record label? Pretty amazing, but this may just be a case where the best song pushes its way to the top regardless of what Diz wants to do with it.

Lip Gloss Math Notes

;_;

Greg, it wasn't that I listened to it over and over in a row. It's that in the space of a week I heard it around 18-20 times.

Which is how these things work with me... I just keep returning to them.

Just my two cents: I'd be really surprised if Mims does not place on, say, the Pazz & Jop and Idolator singles lists (Frank, do you think people already forgot about it, or something?), and not totally shocked if "Lip Gloss" (which I'm voting for -- voting for the Lil Mama "Girlfriend" remix too fwiw) does. Does anybody think Shop Boyz have a shot?

As for Robyn/Kleerup, on the basis that I have no idea what it is, and didn't even hear of it until just now (well, I guess I know who she is, I think, but not them, and not the record), I predict it will place nowhere. Except possibly in England.

Miranda Lambert (# 18 in the adult-alternative/NPR-oriented Paste magazine list, as I pointed out on the country thread last night) will do great.

I'm also surprised that the Armstrong/Skye song has fallen out of favor (Into Action).

Shop Boyz is in my personal top 10, but I doubt it will get too much traction overall. Armstrong/Skye is my 30-ish th favorite single of the year, I love it but not enough to vote for it.

I wonder if Maroon 5 or Soulja boy will generate any placements on year end lists.

"Last Christmas":

Ashley Tisdale and Taylor Swift and Whigfield and Rap Allstars f. Leroy Daniels and Cascada.

Xhuxk, I just assume that a lot of critics hate Mims. The Kleerup/Robyn single went Top 5 in Britain, which is the most attention Robyn's gotten in an English-speaking country since the '90s, so I think it will be fairly high-profile amongst U.S. critics, many of whom were seeking her out two years ago.

Hmmm. We haven't talked about the new Ashlee single here, I don't think, though we've discussed it everywhere else. "Outta My Head." Tremendously catchy, I love it, Gwennishly silly and ridiculous, would only be a nonhit because of prejudice (which is quite likely, unfortunately, since SNL/Orange Bowl still dominate the general public's idea of her), also has a theme that's dear to Ashlee's heart, someone's words and opinions invading her head and Ashlee struggling desperately to reassert her identity even within her own mind. And a great moment when she says "I'll bite your head off."

And I'm disappointed by it anyway, mainly 'cause the lyrics are lazily imprecise, and I don't see how someone who three years ago could tell a full story in one line ("I'm the one who's crawling on the ground/When you say love makes the world go 'round") can't manage much better than "I got a problem with the way that you behave" and "All your opinions, keep them to yourself." And the rap (or toast or english muffin or whatever it's called in reggae) is kinda weak.

None of which would keep it out of my top ten except that it is beaten by even better catchiness from Tisdale and Cyrus and better beauty by assorted others. Will be in my top twenty or thirty, and is far better than I'd feared from a collaboration with Timbaland, which'd seemed like a mismatch when I'd first heard about it. And I'm glad that she's managed to incorporate her personal self-struggle into dance music.

(But Aly Michalka is winning The Enmeshment In Personal Self-Struggle Award for 2007, I'd say.)

By the way, any thoughts about the 50 Cent/Justin "Ayo Technology," which is the first 50 Cent single I've loved in eons?

xpxpxp

I honestly figured critics kind of liked that Mims song! Never got the idea it was especially despised. But maybe that shows what I know. (Incidentally,the Rob Harvilla piece on it in the Voice is the funniest thing I've read by him.)

Taylor Swift does a good "Last Christmas" on her new available-only-at-Target EP, by the way.

As for Robyn, do that many U.S. critics really pay that close attention to the U.K. pop charts? Have to say I'm skeptical -- It's not like, say, Girls Aloud have ever scored in U.S. critic polls. (Though I guess...is your point that Robyn placed among U.S. critics a couple years ago? I'm totally blanking out on how well she may have done...I'm still under the impression, though, that to most U.S. critics, she's nonexistent.) (On the other hand, the Pazz & Jop and Idolator polls do contain some non-U.S. crits these days, so maybe they'll help.)

Here are a bunch of singles (mostly "teenpop-oriented") I'm considering voting for with my Predicted Critical Support (PCS) ratings out of 5.

0 = I predict it will get no support (aside from MAYBE 1-2 people on this thread)
1 = I predict it will get very light support (a smattering of votes here and there)
2 = I predict it will get moderate support, enough to squeak it into the top 50, perhaps
3 = I predict it will get good support, enough to squeak it into top 40
4 = I predict it will get very strong support, enough to squeak it into top 20
5 = I predict it will get huge support, a guaranteed top 10

(My sliding scale probably makes no sense, but anyway...)

Kleerup ft. Robyn, "With Every Heartbeat" (3)
Gwen Stefani, "Early Winter" (2)
Rihanna, "Umbrella" (5)
Beyoncé, "Irreplaceable" (3) (unpredictable; not sure how last year's showing will effect this year's)
Aly & AJ, "Potential Breakup Song" (2)
Silversun Pickups, "Lazy Eye" (4)
M.I.A., "Bird Flu" (3) (album will surely do better)
Sugababes, "About You Now" (0)
Los Campesinos! "You! Me! Dancing!" (3)
50 Cent feat. Justin Timberlake, "Ayo Technology" (3) (this one's hard to predict... it feels like it's growing in stature a little)
Mims, "This Is Why I'm Hot" (4)
Dude & Nem, "Watch My Feet" (5)
Audio Club, "Sumthin' Serious" (0)
Sharam, "P.A.T.T. (Party All the Time)" (0)
Tim McGraw with Faith Hill, "I Need You" (1) (?)
Gui Boratto, "Beautiful Life" (1) (?)
Fergie feat. Ludacris, "Glamorous" (3)
Lloyd, "Get it Shawty" (1)
Rihanna, "Don't Stop the Music" (2) (this may usurp "Umbrella" from my own list)
Hilary Duff, "Outside of You" (0)
R Kelly vs. Broken Social Scene, "I'm a Flirt" (0)
Killers, "Read My Mind" (3)
Rich Boy, "Throw Some D's" (4)
Jordin Sparks, "Tattoo" (2)
Britney Spears, "Piece of Me" (3)
Siobahn Donaghy, "Don't Give Up" (0)
Debbie Harry, "Two Times Blue" (0)
Kylie, "Speakerphone" (0)
Los Campesinos!, "Death to Los Campesinos" (1) (this may usurp "You! Me! Dancing!" from my own list)
Natasha, "Hey Hey Hey" (0)
UGK feat. Outkast, "International Players Anthem" (5)
Yung Berg, "Sexy Lady" (0)

Gwen Stefani, "Early Winter" (2)

actually, this should be a (1) - I don't think it's really "out there" yet.

M.I.A., "Bird Flu" (3)

I'm thinking this is a (2) now... I should've proofread this before submitting, obviously.

Los Campesinos! "You! Me! Dancing!" (3)
Los Campesinos!, "Death to Los Campesinos" (1)

Who or what is this? I honestly don't think I've ever even heard of it before.

Also surprised by this prediction from Scott:

Dude & Nem, "Watch My Feet" (5)

Is that really a huge critics' record? Again, I had no idea.

Frank: Hilary Duff, Cheetah Girls, and Crazy Frog all also do covers of "Last Christmas" and those are just among the Christmas albums I reviewed on my blog last year.

I'd forgotten about "Sumthin' Serious." It's funny (though not nearly as funny as "Outta My Head").

Yeah, I'm baffled about the singles status of "Early Winter" (which right now is sitting at number 11 in my top 10); "Sexy Lady" is currently in my top 10, though could fall off if there are any newer, sexier ladies. I think your songs are good and your predictions are accurate (though I'm still expecting that Mims will have a harder go of it than you and Xhuxk think). I doubt that "Irreplaceable" will get enough votes this year to qualify. Dude N' Em will be confused by the fact that not even Dude & Em have figured out how to spell their moniker. Really. Check their website and their myspace page and they can't make up their mind.

Xhuxk, I think Robyn's "Be Mine!" placed in the P&J forties a couple of years ago, though its ranking was confused by the fact that originally the assistant poobahs had counted "Be Mine!" and "Be Mine" as separate songs (this year things will be confused by the fact that "With Every Heartbeat" was originally billed as Kleerup f. Robyn and then became Robyn f. Kleerup). There was some discussion of "With Every Heartbeat" upthread, though I wouldn't say that that's a good predictor of poll results. Attention at p4k would be more significant.

Songs on Scott's list I can't remember hearing:
Los Campesinos! "You! Me! Dancing!"
Sharam, "P.A.T.T. (Party All the Time)"
R Kelly vs. Broken Social Scene, "I'm a Flirt"
Killers, "Read My Mind"
Los Campesinos!, "Death to Los Campesinos"

The U.S. critics that care about Robyn will have voted for "With Every Heartbeat" in last year's polls, since that's when it was first released. I love it, but I don't consider it a 2007 song, regardless of when it peaked in the U.K.

Attention at p4k would be more significant.

It was Pitchfork's #57 song ... of 2006.

R Kelly vs. Broken Social Scene, "I'm a Flirt" (0)

I'm strongly considering voting for this.

I finally got Avril's Best Damn Thing from the library and I kind of hate it. The Luke tracks are catchy like "Girlfriend" and overbearing like "Girlfriend" and make me feel like I'm walking through a blizzard of sugar, the Butch Walker tracks are like the Luke tracks but not even catchy, the more normal and warm tracks are just blah as songs and even they're given a bright sheen that irritates me in the context of all this blistering sugar. I can see how someone who at 17 who was trying to grow up and sounded like it will at age 22 try to reaffirm her youthful exuberance, but the result here just seems screechy and infantile. Of course I need to invoke The Boney Joan Rule, since as a fan of "Cum On Feel The Noize" and "Bodies" I can be plenty enamored of the screechy and the infantile, but this time I'm just annoyed. Which isn't to say that "Girlfriend" isn't catchy and that "I Can Do Better" isn't compelling and "I Don't Have To Try" isn't Runawaysish. But, you know, the Ted Nugent album is more fun (at least the first half).

Who or what is this? I honestly don't think I've ever even heard of it before.

Brit kids making indie dance noise, basically, causing a ruckus while doing so.

I wasn't sure about Dude n' Em -- I assumed this was something like a phenomenon, but it only reached me as such by reading somewhere that it was, not ACTUALLY experiencing it as such. (it actually seems kind of obscure to me.)

The r. kelly / BSS thing is probably the latter's best recording, and even one of the former's best (though it's a mashup, and doesn't have the polish of his other stuff, obviously). I love how t-Pain sounds in this version, especially.

FYI, Sharam, "P.A.T.T. (Party All the Time)" is my sleeper hit of the year, and will probably sneak in towards the bottom of my top 10. I first heard it on a "high energy" type of station, and thought it was the stupidest idea for a song ever. I still might think that, but I've never stopped loving how it sounds.

John, if even half as many critics vote "With Every Heartbeat" this year as did last, then it counts and the votes are combined in P&J, if they're following the same rules as in the Xgau era (and assuming the poobahs are as competent, which I'm not assuming, since given the cheapness of the new regime poobahhood will probably be depopulated). Don't know how Idolator will deal with holdovers, especially since Gawker managed to lose last year's ballots.

Just one last thought on my own PCS list: if Rihanna (a shoo-in), Dude & Nem (highly questionable), and UGK (probable, esp. given recent events) are the only ones I consider "huge support" candidates, what am I missing? What are the other obvious hits that will climb the top 10 this year? I can't think of the big obvious poll topper sorts of songs I've missed. (Though, actually, I realize now I should've listed "Lip Gloss" as well, but I'd have rated it a 4 and not a 5.)

I don't consider it a 2007 song, regardless of when it peaked in the U.K

If it peaked in the U.K. in 2007, I guarantee that plenty of people consider it a 2007 song (though they may or may not be critics.) (And there have certainly been plenty of non-U.S. -- and U.S., for that matter -- hits over the years that I sure didn't hear on their release dates. Maybe even most of them. And I doubt I'm alone, so I'm not sure why Robyn -- who I'm still skeptical about, of course -- would be any different.)

if Rihanna (a shoo-in), Dude & Nem (highly questionable), and UGK (probable, esp. given recent events) are the only ones I consider "huge support" candidates, what am I missing?

Souja Boy. (And maybe Avril? Maybe Christina Aguilera? Maybe a different Britney? Among other things.)

My guess is "D.A.N.C.E." has a decent shot at top 10 and so does "Upgrade U". I'd put "All My Friends" as a near top 10 lock but I guess I don't really know. It was #1 on the Stylus list.

I'd bet "Girlfriend" for top 10 as well.

There's the problem of crossing years, but I'd think that "Rehab" might do well if it gets enough this year for last year's votes to qualify; maybe "Back To Black," though I'd hardly say it's assured in the Top 20. The Timbo/Hilson?

And I simply have no reading for how music critics are rating "Gimme More" and "Piece Of Me," which I think are both better than "Toxic" but I don't think the critical community is with me on this. They could go top twenty, or they could bomb out altogether.

Is Kanye West's "Stronger" in play? Another thing I can't read.

Other than "Lazy Eye," what are the indie singles that critics are getting behind. "Standing In The Way Of Control" would have gotten most of its votes in 2006, right?

D.A.N.C.E."..."Upgrade U"... "All My Friends"

Off the top of my head, I can identify the artists who did exactly zero of these.

I could totally see "Rehab" beating "Umberlla," come to think of it. And yeah, "Stronger" will be way up there.

I should also say here that it kind of ticks me off that my Avril feat. Lil Mama vote will probably count toward just plain Avril votes (which it's not), but if it does, Lil Mama will help "Girlfriend"s's standing, I'm sure.

If it peaked in the U.K. in 2007, I guarantee that plenty of people consider it a 2007 song (though they may or may not be critics.)

Your parenthetical here is key, Chuck. The people who vote in P&J and Idolator tend to be U.S.-based critics, and I'm guessing that the U.S.-based critics who care about Robyn in the first place would've heard this in 2006 (on Pitchfork or on blogs or wherever) and considered it a 2006 song, since to their knowledge it didn't blow up any more than that. It's not a case of hearing "Toxic" in 2003 or "Since U Been Gone" in 2004 or "Crazy" in 2005 or "Rehab" in 2006 but then finding it inescapable the following year. It's a case of hearing an mp3 in 2006 and having no reason to encounter it further after that.

so does "Upgrade U"

Beyonce or Lil Wayne? I don't think either of them have much of a shot, to be honest.

Let me add: I have no pulse on the critical consensus and don't even have a vote myself. My predictions are not particularly educated guesses.

"All My Friends" deserves to do well, but again its something I don't have much of a reading on. (Xhuxk, it's LCD Soundsystem.)

I'm guessing these are top 10.

Kanye West, "Stronger"
Amy Winehouse, "Rehab"
Peter Bjorn + John, "Young Folks" (with 2006 carryover votes)
Rihanna, "Umbrella"
Avril Lavigne, "Girlfriend"
Lil Mama, "Lip Gloss"
LCD Soundsystem, "All My Friends" (if this isn't Pitchfork's #1, I'll be very surprised)
Feist, "1234"

Can't think of what the other two will be...

I'm calling Fall Out Boy on the top 10. And I see 'Piece of Me' placing a lot higher than just top 50.

Also, I'd be really surprised if Lip Gloss hit the top 10. Thrilling, but shocked.

See, Chuck mentioning "Soulja Boy" as a potential (or probable?) Top 10 just proves how little I probably know; I would've assumed that among critics Dude & Nem stand a better chance, even though the Soulja Boy is a much more popular record.

"Rehab" I totally agree with--I wouldnt' be shocked if it won (it'll bridge a major age gap, I'm guessing) (note that I don't think the oldtimers around here--present company included--really count among the demographic I'm thinking... even Greil Marcus likes "Rehab"!).

I'll begrudgingly admit "Girlfriend" will be Top 10, despite having come to really dislike it myself after an initial positive reaction (don't know the Lil Mama vers.). Sincerely hope "1234" isn't right up there, but yeah, it probably has a shot also. (I've tried to convince myself I like Feist, even taking my wife to see her live once, but I think I'm giving up on that illusion.)

I think Timbo/Hilson's got a shot at the top ten. And I'm skeptical about "Young Folks" and "Stronger" (but see below), and I wish "Girlfriend" and "1234" wouldn't make it but I think they will. And there's a chance that a lot of people will consider "Rehab" old news. I'm pleased you're all sure that "Lip Gloss" is a lock. I think Rihanna slaughters everyone else, but I was sure in 2005 that "Gold Digger" would be lucky to get Top 5 and that the battle was between "Since U Been Gone" and "1 Thing," so my prognostication isn't particularly valuable.

The Britney's a really hard call. The Idolator poll allots points for singles, correct? If so, I'd give it better chances there than in P&J, because I think some voters will want to throw their weight behind it (just because it's Britney, and they'll want to see it place) (and duh, because they also really like it). But in P&J, I can't see it garnering enough actual votes to do all that great.