― oops (Oops), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:12 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:15 (twenty years ago) link
Please ignore this post if it insights the fire in your belly.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:17 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:18 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:18 (twenty years ago) link
Damn skippy.
can you give us a precis? or a few pointers? describe what it is from your pov? or is this gonna stay at some meta level?
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:22 (twenty years ago) link
I am afraid I am leaving myself dangling here so I'm going to explain what I mean a little better: The assumption is often that "whitening" of the music is inherently "progressive," and I was suggesting that this is not so. Note that whitening does not neccessarily have to do with the skin color of the musician - for instance, Dave Matthews Band minus Dave Matthews recording a hip hop album would still be creating a hip hop album with a rock aesthetic and therefore it would be REgressive rather than PROgressive. So "whitening" in the case in which I am using it refers to the values inherent in the musicians' musical ideas. White CULTURE rather than white PEOPLE.
While my musical values come from a more hip hopist perspective simply because that is what I surrounded myself with as a kid, and then growing up, (jazz also), perhaps I have a different perspective than a lot of people here. I don't want to act like I'm some hip hop scholar or something though here to educate the masses, because I'm not at all. Forreal, the best way to do it is explore it yrself, read about the artists, etc. Even if you don't listen to ALL the artists from the early 80s, understanding WHY the music was created - for example, that hip hop is based on deconstruction and reconstruction of older song forms, repetition, percussive drive, James Brown style drumming, the fact that it was initially made as dance music...all stuff that is important to know....a "hip hopist" would say that a rapper using a live band is NOT "real hip hop"; I disagree. But I think a lot of the time rock critics would use use of rock instrumentation or values as a "maturation" of hip hop - (thus the vaunted position of the Roots on critics polls) rather than seeing sample-based music as its own legitimate musical aesthetic.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:28 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:30 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:33 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:36 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:38 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:39 (twenty years ago) link
"The assumption"? from whom?
James.You are asking for whiter hip hop.Admit it.
I think hip hop has been asking for whiter hip hop since it was born. I love that footage of Afrika Bambaata raving about Gary Numan and him DJing it back in the day. Kraftwerk anyone?
(You know, white guys like Numan and Hutter And Schneider who use "instruments")
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:42 (twenty years ago) link
Different from the race of the artist. Bambaataa created music in the hip hop aesthetic, which of course overlaps rock music in a good 50% of its values.
Know what's a great song?
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:44 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:46 (twenty years ago) link
PS: Seriously, check out World Destruction.R-R-R-Reagan.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:47 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:51 (twenty years ago) link
Ah, so "white-ification" = "long instrumental solos"... like Jimi Hendrix, or almost all of jazz.
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:52 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:56 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:56 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 08:57 (twenty years ago) link
This whole over-analyzing and adjective-laden term assignment about the AESTHETIC of hip hop is just really boggling. I'm very eager about the history of hip-hop, as it is VERY fascinating, but discussing this any further at this point is like arguing over what "punk" means, as opposed to just talking about the "roots" of punk or whatever.
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 08:59 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:03 (twenty years ago) link
Although I hope we never have a Paul Simon/ Peter Gabriel of hip hop.
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:05 (twenty years ago) link
― hstencil, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:07 (twenty years ago) link
― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:07 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:16 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:44 (twenty years ago) link
Though it's funny that ddrake considers this track "bridging" the hip-hop aesthetic, as I thought it was just Bill Laswell wanking over large glam rock beats with two guys shouting awkwardly over it.
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:50 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 17 November 2003 09:53 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:54 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:55 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 17 November 2003 09:58 (twenty years ago) link
as far as hip hop threads go, some have turned the discarded Mind/Body split into pure Body -- as if that is what Hip Hop is supposed to be, though it never has been from the very beginning. The fascism of the Rump is as smothering as the fascism of the Mind.
― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 17 November 2003 10:00 (twenty years ago) link
I think the original poster got so much heat because he seemed to have this misconception about what rap is, and then he suggested it should be made more "progressive" by elements, which are either not progressive or already exist in rap. So, before you criticize rap for being "not progressive", you should listen to it a bit more.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:06 (twenty years ago) link
Uh, Wyclef Jean?
― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 17 November 2003 11:16 (twenty years ago) link
The next NWW project, which Stapleton is working on at the moment, is going to be a hip-hop album. It will also feature a very talented female rapper.
Film at eleven.
― Herbstmute (Wintermute), Monday, 17 November 2003 11:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Jason J, Monday, 17 November 2003 11:47 (twenty years ago) link
stence where do you think I live? this his puzzling the hell out of me
what I said:
it's foul enough to make you reexamine anything you might've thought about his previous work
I'd stand by that, and don't think it's actually that reactionary a position from a critical standpoint
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 12:44 (twenty years ago) link
3. Unusal or experimental vocal intonation and phrasing. Or vocal lines processed electronically with more than just a vocoder.
Lyrics Born. If you're not J3ss H4rv3ll, you may likey a lot. He's very chameleonic and unprecedented. And funky as fuck.
4. Hip hop with heavy use of non-western influences and sounds (African, Indian, Asian) or peripheral western sounds. And not just a programmed beep vaguely rooted in a non-western scale.
MODERN HIP-HOP RADIO TO THREAD
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:05 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:06 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:20 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:35 (twenty years ago) link
― darko donnington (blueski), Monday, 17 November 2003 14:56 (twenty years ago) link
― gifto of gabbington (nickalicious), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 November 2003 15:03 (twenty years ago) link