classic Wu-Tang solo run poll

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I don't -- the first one was at the height of the Wu's permeation of pop culture. "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" was a far bigger presence than its chart peak would suggest.

raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:28 (thirteen years ago) link

same with "Incarcerated Scarfaces" and "Shadowboxing"

raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:28 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm not really concerned about who sells what to whom really

vehemence is mine (Edward III), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:29 (thirteen years ago) link

speaking of old wu-tang, house of flying daggers of OB4CL II is sooo old school wu and everyone goes so hard :)

(posting cuz i love the meth verse, but everyone is fantastic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR7kVnh3PlI

da poupier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link

you sold platinum round the world I sold wood in the hood

vehemence is mine (Edward III), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link

method is mvp when it comes to guest spots

vehemence is mine (Edward III), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:31 (thirteen years ago) link

Well, you did say Meth's career hasn't lived up to his early rep, but it seems he's had the most succesful career of all Wu members.

(x-post to Edward)

Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm not really concerned about who sells what to whom really

After all those sophomore albums flopped in '98 and '99, had I been in the Wu I would have.

raging hetero lifechill (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:32 (thirteen years ago) link

Well, you did say Meth's career hasn't lived up to his early rep, but it seems he's had the most succesful career of all Wu members.

maybe in terms of sales but I'll take Ghost's catalog over Meth's (and over most rappers in general, tbh) any day of the week.

How do folks rate the Redman/Method Man albums?

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link

The first one is great.

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link

^^^

GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link

i think blackout is classic (as i said upthread)

da poupier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:35 (thirteen years ago) link

Not heard the How High soundtrack or the sequel (Blackout 2, how imaginative.)

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link

the first blackout is obviously fantastic. the sequel's not nearly as essential, but i recall it as being a decently fun listen nonetheless.

swvl, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:37 (thirteen years ago) link

very distinctly remember the first time I saw this, when it went into 4th chamber it was like entering another dimension

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7h_pwp2E6Q

vehemence is mine (Edward III), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link

Well, you did say Meth's career hasn't lived up to his early rep, but it seems he's had the most succesful career of all Wu members.

maybe career was the wrong word to use, I'm not using records sales as any yardstick of merit here

vehemence is mine (Edward III), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:39 (thirteen years ago) link

otherwise we might as well rank this poll in records sold and be done with it

vehemence is mine (Edward III), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 20:40 (thirteen years ago) link

"clever and/or unexpected wordplay is so dated" goes a very long way towards why I don't feel a lot of current hip-hop

― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 2:21 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its more 'exceedingly corny wordplay is so dated' that is at issue here. or 'wordplay that breaks character'

you guys have it exactly backwards -- by becoming consistent characters rather than rappers 'performing' characters it freed MCs to play roles & inhabit them more fully & convincingly instead of being these detached 'performers' of various characters or w/e

since NWA the more grimey shit has always trumped the less grimey ish. thats why wu tang was a big deal in the 1st place -- they were coming off grimier than what was before them (which included that juice crew influenced obvious metaphor shit)

"Ima tell it to you straight / i dont need a metaphor" - t.i.

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:27 (thirteen years ago) link

its more 'exceedingly corny wordplay is so dated' that is at issue here.

Wait, in an era where we have songs like "Bedrock" you're calling out Wu emcees for being exceedingly corny????

GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link

lol i think that song is more than corny its just awful

lyrically

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link

the "in character" portion of your argument makes more sense to me; my big problem is that I am really not interested in most of the characters these guys are portraying

GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link

who are 'these guys'

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link

most prominent punchline rappers nowadays really suck, which is why there's been like three famous new rappers from the northeast in the past 10 years

truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah imo punchline rappers now being shitty is more an argument against gza aging well than for him

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link

man you dudes aren't up on IRON SOLOMON huh?

da poupier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link

who are 'these guys'

like.. 90% of the people who are currently selling records

basically the only emcees out that I am even halfway interested in are all past-their-prime fossils

GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link

the best punchline rapper of the past three years has been... raekwon

truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:48 (thirteen years ago) link

the "in character" portion of your argument makes more sense to me; my big problem is that I am really not interested in most of the characters these guys are portraying

^^^OTM

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link

unfortunately cliche critique of hip hop as being all just about thugs (everybody's a drug dealer, a pimp, a murderer, etc.) has sadly become MORE prescient over the years, not less

it's like jesus don't you ever get tired of this schtick, it is now almost 30 years old

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link

"Ima tell it to you straight / i dont need a metaphor" - t.i.

= you are about to bore me

(and I say this as a guy who likes some TI)

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link

swimsuit mammal handle

Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link

if you want a deathless onslaught of 'clever' rappers there are tons & tons of underground rappers boring the shit out of anyone who listens on a daily basis

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link

seriously dudes just go download royce tapes & stop whinging

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link

deej playing the backpacker card

guanciale diary (s1ocki), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link

(i love royce)

da poupier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link

backpacker is such a weird pejorative

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 22:44 (thirteen years ago) link

if you want a deathless onslaught of 'clever' rappers there are tons & tons of underground rappers boring the shit out of anyone who listens on a daily basis

I think Edan was the last backpacker I really liked and that was more for the beats than anything else cuz he wasn't all THAT clever

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 22:45 (thirteen years ago) link

Liquid Swords is my favourite rap album ever but they are all great, Tical is probably the weakest.

Kitchen Person, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:03 (thirteen years ago) link

don't know which i dislike more: current 'these guys' '90% of rappers selling today' or the posturing/condescension inherent in how rap is discussed nowadays

hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:04 (thirteen years ago) link

i'd like to know what backpack rappers a deej likes

rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:05 (thirteen years ago) link

actually maybe it's just the posturing/condescension inherent in how deej discusses rap

hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:06 (thirteen years ago) link

i like royce & crooked i. although not together and not with joe budden or especially ortiz.

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:31 (thirteen years ago) link

backpack has nothing to do w/ it?? lots of backpack rappers dont spit this way

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:31 (thirteen years ago) link

maybe my condescension is directly related to your boring, 1.5 decade old argument of received wisdom. can we take on HIP HOP ALBUM SKITS next??

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:32 (thirteen years ago) link

u know what i hate?? when rappers 'go pop'!!

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:32 (thirteen years ago) link

serious question deej: how do you approach/interpret/deal with the subject matter of the majority of mainstream rap? I'm assuming you aren't in denial about the prevalance of drug dealing/mysogny/violence/nihilism/materialism, and given that the "thug" persona rules mainstream rap in general, I just wonder what you find so interesting about infinite sub-permutations of it. Like, I'm assuming you aren't really cool with dealing coke or shooting people or fucking strippers or whatever, do you just look past all this stuff? Cuz to me, after awhile, the nihilism of it all becomes crushing. I'm not saying this kind of subject matter is unacceptable or without merit - I like plenty of music with grim subject matter, rap included (and metal and rock etc etc) - but it just seems SO dominant in mainstream rap, and so explicit and bare... I dunno how people look past it, really.

xp

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:34 (thirteen years ago) link

fwiw this is not condescension directed at ppl like m@tt and dan who are content to listen to old dudes doing new stuff or whatever

i mean, an example of a rapper who never dealt w/ clock-radio-speakers type raps is SCARfACe who has cross-generational appeal. lots of rappers now, particularly the ones on the charts, follow the pattern of moving rap more towards the realm of persona/character instead of constructions of dense wordplay. imo, this was largely a good thing, considering how boring so many rappers 'in it for the wordplay' turn out to be

of course 99% of rappers are garbage but i dont really take every dude with a rapping myspace into account

j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:34 (thirteen years ago) link

fully aware you probably won't answer this and will just go for the zings but hey

xp

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:35 (thirteen years ago) link

SCARfACe

truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:35 (thirteen years ago) link

I mean I'm old enough to remember when these criticisms were lodged at rap the first time around back in the 80s, but back then you could really point to a LOT of other mainstream stuff that wasn't gangsta or whatever, there really did seem to be a wider range of approaches that were explicitly NOT "underground", backpackers didn't even exist then

i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 23:36 (thirteen years ago) link


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