Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

Also, Aly + AJ's Division is the weakest track on that album for me, precisely because it borrows the Graduation motif.

And wow. Think they're trying to sell Mira on her sex appeal?

Mira is a lion!

Speaking of Trina (which no one was), I'm streaming the new Pitbull album over on the AOL Listening Party, and as is usual with him I like about a third of it quite a lot and the rest makes me shrug. For the second album in a row he samples the riff from "When I Hear Music." Kind of does his own version of "Wanksta" with it (which he may have done last time, too; I don't remember). Anyway, "Go Girl" f. Trina is really good, and funny.

Well, Jordan is younger than Taylor (and younger than Jordin, too). I tend to ignore Jordan's lyrics, which aren't bad but are predictable; it's the delivery that works for me.

My favorite 2007 hyphy single is Keak Da Sneak's "That Go," hovering at around twelve on my singles list.

Dimension, what do you think of Miley Cyrus's "Start All Over," which has just started getting Radio Disney play? I like it quite a lot, uses her raw vocal cords very well. It was co-written by Fefe Dobson.

i just read that but i have not heard that song & have not tried v.hard to stomach anything about m.c. in any way so idunno, i'll give it 2 shots

also: http://swaymag.ca/summer2007/music.html

okay good song but take away the byrds/3 o'clock hippie stuff and its all fefe d -- slash guitars, big fat hoox

Top Ten Things about the New Aly + AJ Album (In No Particular Order):

1) "I'll bet my tears / I'll bet your tears / I'll bet our tears..." (Silence): Deferred meaning before she's wiping away the tears, the slow reveal lets you dwell in the tears first.

2) "If I could have you back again / I'd think about once or twice I guess / If I could have you back / I'd reconsider / Maybe I'd say yes. / On the other hand it would be better to have a life without the constant indecision over if I could have you back." (If I Could Have You Back): The frankness, the pragmatic decision-making hiding a deeper uneasiness, the admission 'once or twice I guess' that tosses off the consideration with light nonchalance.

3) "Please." (Flattery): Just heart wrenching beseechment.

4) "We both have tasty tears, my dear." (Flattery): The Dorothy Parker'esque 'my dear' coupled with the gastronomical eating of tears (they roll down your face and you taste them on your lips) plus the emotional battery that we're both crying, and both our tears are tasty (is she tasting his tears? has she tasted his tears in the past? is she just guessing?)

5) "Now all I want is just my stuff back / Did you get that? / I want my stuff back." (Potentional Breakup Song): In this line, they are clearly statement, as eloquently as possible in this kind of situation: Fuck off. I think of Dylan's "I don't mind / You just kinda wasted my precious time," and its the same kind of bitter kiss-off that makes Dylan (and Aly + AJ) so bloody devastating.

6) "You didn't ask me for my number / Wait, you didn't ask me for my number / I like the fact that you didn't ask that / Cause you already got my number huh." (Bullseye): I LOVE the Elvis-styled 'huh.' It's got the right verve, the right sex appeal that Elvis infused the word with. I can almost imagine Elvis gyrating his hips when they sing it, but they sell it as a feminine movement.

7) "I used to wear your shirt to bed / But now it's in the trash instead." (Closure): See #5.

8) "Everyday, everyday, everyday, everyday, everyday, everyday everyday..." (Closure): The distance, the time passing, articulating through repetition, and then through the drawn out echoes that sound like they belong on Beck's Sea Change.

9) "There is no finish line / Together we'll wait / Why don't you realize?" (Like It Or Leave It): It's a song about abstinence, and yet the lines are delivered sultry, like they want to tempt the male target in the song, even as they defer him. They'd be considered teases if the song itself didn't serve as a fulfillment of sorts.

10) "I want the days grow longer and longer..." (Insomniatic): Again, they do this earlier, but the words and drawn out, the music and vocals mimicking the theme. I love that kind of interplay of dynamics between the theme and the techniques.

So far my favorite on the Keke Palmer alb is "Game Song," which does a nice job of mixing spare haughty r&b nonchalance with mammoth musical harmony.

My favorite moment on the Aly & A.J. is "please," but the one on "Blush" rather than "Flattery."

(Isn't it "we both have tasted tears"? A good line, either way, though "tasted" makes it less likely that they've tasted each other's tears.)

My album of the year. I think "Division" is one of my least favorites, not because of the graduation theme, but just the metaphor being too intricately overworked (though I find the overworking charming), and the tune isn't as good as the others.

What? Blush? What? I don't have a song called Blush. What? (This is me frantically worried that I'm missing a song on the album)

I just found it on youtube. I've never heard this song. WSADGFOAJSFDOKASDF

top ten things about sunday love:

1. Fefe collaborated with Joan Jett & Matthew Wilder, and Courtney Love came by the studio to yell at her. She had pictures of Sid Vicious and Nancy Spungeon taped to the booth when she sang.

2. "Break some different hearts / Touch my different parts" ("As a Blonde"): No wistful searching, no tenderness, no virginal yearnitude -- she's saying "I'm gonna wind it whenever I want, fuk u if you disagree."

3. Song topics: bisexuality ("Miss Vicious," "If I Was a Guy"), generalized horniness ("The Initiator," "Don't Let It Go to Your Head"), looking out for male friend who suffered childhood sexual abuse ("Man Meets Boy"), hatred for evil ex-boyfriends ("Get You Off" as in "I'd do anything to get you off...OFF MY BAACK!"), crappy home life, etc.

4. "I hit you way too low" ("Scar"), a very complicated song discussing emotional abuse and perhaps physical abuse as well between teen lovebirds; she apologizes for her mean-spiritedness because she doesn't want to be that person any more.

5. "Anyone in love knows you deserve better than me" ("Get Over Me"): I'm a bad bad girl, you're a masochist, it's over for your sake, good luck.

6. The utter punk ennui in her "Yeah Yeah Yeah" chorus -- sounds like Romeo Void to me.

7. The Cars synth stabs on "If I Was a Guy", esp when it undergirds lyrics like "If I was a guy I would do lots of chicks / Yeah I would be so horny and think with my dick." Not even Avril lets herself go this far into sexiness and explicit anger -- she can only muster a vague contempt for everyone.

8. "You can love me, you can leave me / But we're only digging a hole / Can you save me when there's just one way we can go?" ("Hole"): This song is pretty emotionally out there and clear-eyed at the same time. Despair clings to her.

9. The "awright" that starts the hair-metal "The Initiator" before she brags that "if there's something I see, I'm HITTIN' ON IT!" (There's also explicit criticism of the idea of the whole Aly & A.J. "oh I'm just waiting for those bad boys to come near so I can skitter away but look over my shoulder fetchingly" that is the basis of the pretty good "Blush".

10. "Be Strong," the closer, would probably be a top 20 country song if it was recorded by Carrie Underwear. It's a long slow swoop of a thing, languid and full of "He's in another girl's lovin' arms"-type lyrics. Like, that's an actual quote.

Maybe favorite song about emotional (physical?) abuse (and weird to call it my favorite but...):

"Cuz the next day we're right back at it / In the same exact pattern / What the fuck is the matter with us / We can't figure out if it's / Lust or it's love / What's sad is what's attracting us to each other / They say that every man grows up to marry his own mother. / Which would explain why you're such a motherfucking bitch / But I stay and still stick it out with you even though I just hit you today / But you deserved it you hit me first and provoked me to choke you / Just cuz I came home late last night crawled in bed and I woke you."

AND

"You're the ink to my paper / What my pen is to my pad / The moral, the very fiber / The whole substance to my rap. / You are my reason for being / The meaning of my existence / If it wasn't for you / I would never be able to spit this / These sentences I do and the irony / Is you rely on me as much / as I rely on you to inspire me like you do. / You provide me the lighterfluid to fuel my fire / You're my entire supply / Gas, the match, the igniter."

I think "Division" is one of my least favorites, not because of the graduation theme, but just the metaphor being too intricately overworked

Also, I cannot stress this enough, when you DIVIDE you get a QUOTIENT, not a SUM. Home school in action, people.

My fave on the Keke Palmer alb might be "Music Box" for its pretty piano hook and melancholy, even though the lyrics are pretty sappy. Actually, I kind of like the sap, too. But "Game Song" was the one that grabbed me first. I wish "Footwurkin'" was a better song and/or referenced the 60s track "Foot Stompin'" with a stomp-beat.

A favorite moment on the Fefe alb from "Get You Off": "I've been living lately like I'm dying all the time / might do something crazy like jumping off the Hollywood sign / 'cause boy you make me feel like I can fly."

C'mon, dabug. Give the interpretation for why division COULD have meaning as a sum, despite the mathematical jargon. :)

"Blush" wasn't available on the iTunes version or Insomniatic, though was on at least some of the store versions.

I reviewed it for the Las Vegas Weekly.

Frank, your analysis of Blush is amazing. I got chills reading it. And you're totally right about the 'please.' There's a conversation waiting to happen about the use of 'pleases' in Aly + AJ, and how that relates to their begging of the listener. The album isn't just the best album of the year, it's also the most inviting. Rihanna is fun, but held at a distance. Britney is edgy, but also singing from somewhere else. Taylor and Jordan are playing soft vulnerability. But Aly + AJ are vulnerable despite being bombastic and fun and full of life and even edgy in places. And part of why the album works is because they are inviting; they say please (not in the polite way, but in the desperate way and the sexual way and the needy way). It's an album that drags you in, you get invited by the fun sounds and the witty lyrics, but you stay for the heart break that is always simmering below the surface. You are there for the 'please.'

There's a conversation waiting to happen

Or... already started. :-P

"Blush" wasn't available on the iTunes version or Insomniatic

"Blush" wasn't available on the iTunes version OF Insomniatic, that is.

brak55 responds:

Tampon music (Martina's term) is basically Lilith Fair music (Jewel, Indigo Girls, etc.).

and

Dragonette is basically a Canadian group that moved to London knowing that the type of music they play wouldn't be appreciated by a North American audience.

According to Lillix myspace they have subtracted out two of their members, adding in two male new male bandmates in their place. They will be producing new music sometime in 2008.

Interesting twist on "Not Like That" from Ashley Tisdale:

“I want my fans to know the truth. I’m not someone who is going to act like I had nothing done. I just want to be honest because my fans are everything to me.”

Ashley Tisdale - Confirms she had nose job, read more at People.com.

(Ashlee Tisdale?)

An email circulated while ILX was down got me thinking about this, but as the year is coming to an end, here's my question: Which teenpop (or straight pop) singles and albums are going to chart on mainstream lists? And a related question; How long will it take (if ever) for Teenpop to be examined with the intensity as indie music (and other PFM genres)?

Here are my guesses:
Fall Out Boy
Rihanna
Avril Lavigne
Britney Spears

Btw; Check out Amy Adams singing That's How You Know from Enchanted. I'll YSI it later today if you guys are interested.

Nevermind. You can watch it here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xRYU4cqUAUs

:)

Off the top of my head (other than the ones you already mentioned):

Amy Winehouse
Soulja Boy Tell'em
Sean Kingston
Alicia Keys
Timbaland/Keri Hilson
Mims (possibly)
Robyn/Kleerup (possibly)

And of course Celine Dion will go Top 10 in the critics polls owing to all the excitement generated by Carl Wilson's book.

(I was assuming that by "mainstream lists" you mean "critics polls." Most of those people we mention are already on mainstream lists ('cept Robyn/Kleerup in Europe only.)

Do you think "Lipstick" has a chance of placing?

By which you mean "Lip Gloss." Yeah, I'd say a chance, though I'd guess top 60 rather than top 40. I'd say the same about "Potential Breakup Song," which got Girls Aloud/Britney size support on poptimists, but I don't see that carrying over to a lot of American critics. Aly & A.J. are getting far more attention for that than they ever got for "Rush" or "Chemicals React," so maybe I'll be presently surprised. It, like "Umbrella," is in my top 20 but not my top 10; and "Lip Gloss" is in my top 30, and "With Every Heartbeat" in my top 40; so, though I'll be rooting for those tracks, I won't actually be helping them.

Not counting the country critics poll, the only votes of mine that will do any act any good will be my votes for Britney and Miranda Lambert. I'm guessing that Kelly Clarkson will lay an egg in the polls, though I hope not; I do think "Never Again" has a chance of squeaking into the top 40, but I'd guess not. It's my top 20 and the album is in my top 10.

On the basis of what it sounds like, I'd have predicted T2's "Heartbroken" would place, but its showing on the poptimists weekly poll was so tepid that I'm guessing that if even the Brits weren't noticing it, it doesn't have a chance. It'll probably end up in my top 30 or 40.

I'll be presently surprised

Or pleasantly surprised, though most likely neither.

I'm surprised you think Britney has a better chance of landing than, say, Kelly Clarkson. Miranda I don't know about... I guess she could have picked up steam and I wouldn't have noticed (I really couldn't get into her album).

I'd actually drop Rihanna and add Potential Breakup Song (where my vote would be important), but I like Umbrella way too much, and PBS is my second to least favorite song on the album (any other would've gotten my vote). Or I'd drop Fall Out Boy, but I suspect they can use my vote (maybe a shot of breaking the top10, either them or MCR's Teenagers).

Lipgloss is huge! I hear that Avril remix all the time on the radio, too, and Lipgloss was all over it this summer. Also, all the Brooklyn girls were singing it. So maybe the critics heard it enough too. Fingers crossed!

Yeah, if "Lip Gloss" isn't in the top 20 I'll be kind of surprised, actually. I don't know if I read more than, like, one definitely positive review of "My December" (and it was Jimmy Draper's), whereas I don't know if I've read one negative review of Britney's. I imagine she'll place OK. But Miranda Lambert is probably the closest to a teenpop victory we're gonna get this year, and I think the country thread has first dibs.

Lipgloss is huge! I hear that Avril remix all the time on the radio, too, and Lipgloss was all over it this summer. Also, all the Brooklyn girls were singing it. So maybe the critics heard it enough too. Fingers crossed!

Lip Gloss' didn't do that well on the charts: 95 to 12 to 10 to 15 to 25 to 38 to out of the top 50, I think (maybe my memory is bad, though)...For such a recitable track, I find that strange...Compare it to something like Soulja Boy, which also rides a pretty minimal beat and similarly infectious hook (YOU!!! = Watcha know 'bout me? whatcha, whatcha know 'bout me? & watch me crank it, watch me (OHH!!!!) = my lip gloss is poppin, my lip gloss is, etc.)...Teenagers star in both. But "Crank Dat" stayed at number one for weeks, and it's still doing well after how many months?

Part of me blames sexism. I think there was a similar situation with J. Holiday's "Bed" and Ciara's "Promise" (though maybe the latter did well on the charts; locally, I've heard "Bed" much more often)

TS they play "bed" all the fucking time here. youtube really helped soulja boy out. a better comparison is probably why "hollaback girl" was a chart smash but not "lip gloss". to be fair there was a pretty high rate of songs that like went up in the top 10 only to plummet pretty quickly: "pop lock and drop it", "lip gloss", "rehab", "1 2 3 4" and i may be forgetting some.

"lip gloss" might have just fell through the cracks. i heard her remix of "girlfriend" on the radio way more than i did "lip gloss".

"Promise" got much more play than "Bed" here, and rightfully so.

Radio never picked up the "Girlfriend" rmx here. "Pop Lock & Drop It" felt like it was around forever, at least on the r&b station, maybe the top 40 didn't stick with it so long.

pop lock and drop it actually peaked at 6. bad example. but there seemed to be a lot of songs this year that made it to like 9/10 for a week and then dropped out. maybe it's in my head since idk where you can track a song's placement by week.

"Never Again" would be a good example.

As for past charts, go to ukmix.org and search for posts by "AutomaticBR". He posts the charts every week. Rather useful.

"Bed" was/is played constantly on Atlanta radio. My guess is that it has no chance on the year end polls.

Miranda Lambert's album was the #2 album of the year on Stylus' premature year end album poll. My guess is it polls really well on Pazz&Jop/Jackin Pop, possibly top 20.

For what it's worth, Mordy, if I had a vote in year end lists, I'd be voting "Teenagers" in top 10 singles and Fall Out Boy in top 10 albums.

I think you guys are putting a lot of stock in critics following radio trends. AFAIK, a lot of people compiling year end lists haven't been listening to a ton of radio this year. Otherwise how you do explain Okkervil River, or Radiohead, or Feist, competing for top slots? (Or last year: I don't think Return to Cooke Mountain or Newsom got a ton of spins.)

Well there's a pretty huge disparity, especially recently, between what people vote for in terms of singles and albums. Like, "Videotape" or "Arpeggi"(sic?) probably won't make the Top 50 in the bigger critics' polls (by which I guess I'm just talking about Idolator and P&J). There's occasional overlap ("1,2,3,4" should do pretty well in singles, but it was also featured in commercials and on SNL and otherwise "in the wider culture" to be noticed), but I imagine there'll be "Umbrella" and "Girlfriend" and a few other ones without much trouble in the singles section. (And I don't think Rihanna or Avril deserves a high album spot anyway -- Rihanna deserves it a lot more than Avril, anyway -- so I won't care if I don't see them there.)

I ended up voting for "Crank That" as my #10 single because my pre-New Year's resolution is to learn the Soulja Boy dance. Slow going.

I forget what people were saying last year, but I imagine you'll actually get MORE indie choices in "singles" at Idolator, because they've made it clear that you can vote for tracks, whereas P&J is still mostly considered an "official singles" type of poll, with a few exceptions (which can be one-off internet or unreleased singles, like Legendary KO or something, that are still considered as an individual song and not a piece of an album).

(that is, more indie tracks in Idolator, but not that many because it scatters the ability to form a consensus.)

nd ask yourself not what the guy who wrote those words means by them, but what you mean by them. And write that down. And if you risk those words - your words - here, you'll get a friendlier response.

First you listen to a song a dozen or so times. It's the relistening that first begins to signal to you. Maybe you aren't thinking during those first dozen or so times that you were compelled. It's only after, when your iTunes counter reads 15, or 23, or 37, that the compulsion is revealed.

It came to me after listening to Britney's 'Piece of Me' 18 times. I realized that it wasn't just the ferocious beat, the sarcastic moaning, the defiant fist pump in her voice, the sex in her vocals, that compelled me to listen to her. Or rather, it was all those things, but there was something more, too.

"You want a piece of me," is the central phrase in the song. It is Britney giving everyone a 'fuck you.' A 'piece of me' is a challenge, a lip-curled beckoning. You're going to talk trash about me? she's asking, Well come get some.

But it doesn't just mean that. It's also a declarative, an announcement. She's telling you something. She's telling you that you want a piece of her. And the two meanings are linked. You want a piece of her, and that's why you keep tearing her down, so you want a piece of me? I'll beat the shit out of you.

At first I thought this was an Eminem'esque song, where you take the ammo out of your enemies' quivers before they can shoot them. It makes beating them easier. But the truth is, her self-degredation is so much more. She's showing you that anything you can bring, she can bring harder. You've come to expect that she's the crying girl you see on television, or the bad mother, or the wife who makes dumb choices of mates. But she knows what you think, and as hard as you can hurt her, she hurts herself so much harder, and thus, she can hurt you so much more.

I tend to have a few modes when listening to female pop stars. I either love them (Rihanna, Joni Mitchell), or I want to protect them like my little sister (Aly + AJ), or they seem like this motherly figure (Carole King, Madonna). And some of that relates, I'm sure, to the Madonna-Whore Complex.

But Britney, with this song and this album, becomes so much more. This is what I think of myself as. I feel like this song. I feel like I need to put myself in people's faces. Like I need to carve out a place before anyone can carve it for me. And when people complain (I'm too loud, too outspoken, too mean, just too strange), I need to tell them "You want a piece of me?" in both ways. That they better get lost, and that they better know that they want a piece of me.

(And btw, Lex, this is exactly the kind of song I was talking about on the earlier thread: The kind of song that risks itself, and the artist risks herself, and the song risks the listener.)