i feel like linx is something i'll never appeciate as much as everyone else
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 05:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i think rae built off the clipse's template as well as anyone could've hoped
― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 05:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Would rank them as follows:
Ol' Dirty Bastard - Return to the 36 Chambers: The Dirty VersionGhostface Killah - IronmanGZA - Liquid SwordsRaekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...
I've still never heard Tical
― MumblestheRevelator, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 05:40 (thirteen years ago) link
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:38 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
same here
also despite some initial deliberation this is liquid swords & it's not like thaat close even, despite the others being great. just the best shit out there
― samosa gibreel, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 05:42 (thirteen years ago) link
GZA>Rae>>>Meth=Ghost>>>>>>ODB
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 05:51 (thirteen years ago) link
fuck outta here with that >>>>>>ODB shit
― samosa gibreel, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 05:57 (thirteen years ago) link
I like Liquid Swords and Return to the 36 Chambers about equally, for entirely different reasons.
― Brad Nelson (BradNelson), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 05:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Liquid Swords is lean and ruthless; Return is a sprawling mess that is alternately horrifying and the most fun thing possible.
― Brad Nelson (BradNelson), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 06:02 (thirteen years ago) link
this is liquid swords
― miss danilelle steven and her clitoral stimulator (contenderizer), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 06:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball, and you join your mother... in death. You don't understand my words, but you must choose...
― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 06:34 (thirteen years ago) link
GZA>Raekwon>Ghost>ODB>Meth
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 08:58 (thirteen years ago) link
ODB album has the weakest beats and I just don't care for ODB's schtick
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 09:22 (thirteen years ago) link
GZA > Rae > ODB > Ghost > Meth
― Neil S, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 09:50 (thirteen years ago) link
liquid swords has some corny-ass proto-grocery bag similes
"lyrics is weak ... CLOCK RADIO SPEAKERS"
rae & ghost were totally w/in character the whole time, way more visceral record, and tical never has meth saying "scriptures hit the body like sawed of shottys / like my hair knotty and my nosepiece snotty"
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:14 (thirteen years ago) link
he says "like" in between there, come on son
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:16 (thirteen years ago) link
pretty sure it says lyrics are weak LIKE clock radio speakers lol xpost
― just sayin, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:16 (thirteen years ago) link
agreed that rae and ghost def have the best rapping, but meth and odb got the better beats imo
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:17 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah obv -- thats why i said 'proto-'its a simile that doesnt really add anything to the street vibe hes trying to convey
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:18 (thirteen years ago) link
i dont think theres a better beat on any record than 'incarcertaed scarfaces' or that one that samples black ivory
tical the one i jam the most now. kinda feel like liquid swords has aged the worst outta these
― Lamp, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:19 (thirteen years ago) link
is cuban linx the boring pick? that's what i'm voting for anyway
pretty sure liquid swords is the boring pick
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:20 (thirteen years ago) link
not that i don't still like it, but the more i get into rap the worse it sounds in comparison to everything else
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:24 (thirteen years ago) link
on these records alone, i would posit "Bring The Pain," "Daytona 500," "Brooklyn Zoo," "Liquid Swords," "Duel Of The Iron Mic"...
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:26 (thirteen years ago) link
i guess sub-question would be what;s yr fave song on any of these records...
Mine would be like a five-way tie between "Bring The Pain," "Daytona 500," "Liquid Swords," "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" and the one where ODB fucks the teacher of his oral sex class
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Since when was Liquid Swords about "the street vibe"? "Liquid Swords" (the song) especially is all about imaginative metaphors and similies, and IMO "lyrics is weak like clock radio speakers" is a fine example of that.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:44 (thirteen years ago) link
i think deej's point is that it's more awkward than imaginative, but i always liked GZA's outre lyrical curveballs--"feminine like sandals," etc
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:47 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't see how it's awkward... Instead of using some stereotypical example of weakness he comes up with a totally unexpected yet instantly understandable simile. To me that's pretty imaginative.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:57 (thirteen years ago) link
i get where deej is coming from... just like grocery bag stuff, it doesnt really add anything. it's just a random example of 'weak'
― just sayin, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 12:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Aren't all similes random, when you think about it? And why should they "add" something? What is it that they're supposed to add?
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:01 (thirteen years ago) link
Meth's album is weakest to me. The beats don't cut it.
― Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:02 (thirteen years ago) link
i think GZA is really saying rapping is where he's a viking
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Raekwon > GZA > ODB > Ghostface Killah > Meth
― prettylikealaindelon, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:18 (thirteen years ago) link
― Tuomas, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:01 AM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
rappers are inhabiting a persona, and while GZA is one second rapping about "life of a drug dealer!!" apparently hes a drug dealer who spent his crack rock cash on a shitty clock radio.
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, i still like the album. like whiney said a lot of that stuff, esp 'feminine like sandals!!!' is still charming in its way. but yeah GZA's style is super dated sounding relative to the rest (which makes sense, hes the oldest dude in the clan right?)
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:39 (thirteen years ago) link
slow down there, souljah boy
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:43 (thirteen years ago) link
no h in soulja boy fyi
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Aren't all similes random, when you think about it?
No; when you think about similes, you come to the inescapable conclusion that a well-formed simile is not random.
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:45 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Tical > Return > Liquid > Linx > Ironman
Linx is overlong and has the second least imaginative production.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:47 (thirteen years ago) link
also I agree w/deej that "lyrics is weak like clock radio speakers" is a lame simile but from a sonics-only reading -- poetry being 1/2 meaning and 1/2 sound & GZA being a guy who is pretty into the sounds of words -- "lyrics is weak like clock radio speakers" is pretty gorgeous
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah that's one of the best-sounding verses on the album imo despite all goofy similes
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:49 (thirteen years ago) link
love when a3r0smith deconstructs lyrics, he is always otm
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:51 (thirteen years ago) link
last twothree posts otm. can't believe the depths this thread has sunk to in its 8 hours of life -- criticizing GZA's flow on Liquid Swords is like criticizing icing on cake.
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:51 (thirteen years ago) link
nice simile!
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:52 (thirteen years ago) link
co-sign w/whiney, nice work bernard!
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:52 (thirteen years ago) link
funnily enough I almost went with "frosting" but decided I liked the way the long string of i's looked on the page
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:53 (thirteen years ago) link
saying any of these five records are less then classic is just fighting words to me
― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:55 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah but that's no fun, so instead we gotta nitpick about shit like "damn those diva vocals on Cuban Linx can be annoying when I have a headache" or "what the hell is GZA talking about, it would be AWESOME to have a zodiac sign on my sweatshirt!"
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 13:59 (thirteen years ago) link
Nowhere on "Liquid Swords" (the song) does GZA claim to be a drug dealer. Can't rappers inhabit different personas on different songs? This particular tune is full of pretty wild metaphors and similies, so I don't see how "clock radio speakers" doesn't fit there. And what does the simile have to what the character in the song owns?
What I meant by random is that, in a simile that starts "weak like...", you can pretty much pick anything you think is weak. Of course, in order for a simile to be good the thing you choose has to be:
1) recognizable as weak (so you can't, for example, say "weak like cayenne pepper", because that makes no sense), and
2) imaginative (you can say "weak as a 90 pound weakling", but you aren't gonna impress anyone with your lyrical skills if you do that).
At least to me, "weak like clock radio speakers" fits both of these criteria.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 October 2010 14:01 (thirteen years ago) link
can i just say ... UNOFFICIAL WET TISSUE
let's just be positive. where one finds linx overlong i find it epic -- especially when you get to 'heaven and hell' at the end. and on what aesthetic grounds can the production be classified as unimaginative? it's broken, fucked up, lurching and banging at the same time. the criminology>incarcerated>rainy dayz run shows off three different, equally awesome styles. on the first one alone you go from the rush of the horns to that creepy jangling sound, which is a really powerful sonic transition to these ears. and the record is filled with those moments! scarfaces has one of the all time great open hihat sounds. etc etc etc
― teflon dawn (uptown churl), Wednesday, 13 October 2010 14:11 (thirteen years ago) link
look i think it's pretty clear that those posts were made during that last innocent summer, before the world as we knew it changed.
― omar little, Wednesday, 10 November 2010 21:09 (thirteen years ago) link
Okay, as I posted upthread, I voted GZA, and I fall squarely into the NME reading circa '95 corny indie fuxor demographic. I love all 5 of these albums, and the reason I voted GZA was as follows:1) RZA's production- weird plinky casio keyboard beats, RZA before he lapsed into self parody2) Great GZA lyrics (but this has been done to death)3) Cameos from other members of the Wu at the top of their games4) Samples: even compared to Cuban Linx, the kung fu movie samples take it to another level, and make the album a coherent whole5) "In Bristol, with a fuckin' pistol" I first heard this record when living in Bristol and that line made it for me
Having said all this, on another day I could have voted for Cuban Linx (probably the Wu record I've listened to most, even though it tails off towards the end) or Return (though Nigga Please is its rival IMO). Tical and Ironman are both great, but don't rival those 3.
Also, 36 Chambers will always be my favourite Wu record.
― Neil S, Wednesday, 10 November 2010 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link
MY LABORATORY STORY KEEP ME FLOWIN' WITH THE GLORYA CAPELLA OR DEEP DIRTY INSTRUMENTALI COULD BLOW THE SKY (NO HOMO?) LIKE THE STORMY WIND BLEWONE GALLON OF WHYLIN', PARK HILL PROFILIN'I CUT YOUR FACE UP ROUGH LIKE FIFTY SURE WHILE YOU'RE SMILIN'
― altered boners (rennavate), Wednesday, 10 November 2010 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link
supreme clientele has the best vocal samples imo, "my god so they are killers"
― hoy orbison (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 10 November 2010 21:53 (thirteen years ago) link
deej, I didn't mean your original point was a derail but the way the argument went on and on and on, in increasingly acrimonious and pedantic fashion, dominated the thread for a couple of days - "potentially interesting bogged down by butturtedness" as you put it.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Thursday, 11 November 2010 00:00 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTPB9inzOPU
― ciderpress, Thursday, 11 November 2010 00:03 (thirteen years ago) link
THEN I DRINK FORTIES TO THEY MEMORIES
this thread is kinda the best thing that could have happened to my week I gotta say
― honkin' on joey kramer (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 11 November 2010 00:42 (thirteen years ago) link
had the beat to '4th chamber' stuck in my head on my way home from work cuz of this thread. also, was reminded of when someone compared the 'labels' beat to sounding like a sock full of doorknobs to the head. i always liked that
― deej, Thursday, 11 November 2010 01:03 (thirteen years ago) link
SONS ARE BORN AND GUNS ARE DRAWNCLIPS ARE FULLY LOADED, AND THEN BLOOD FLOODS THE LAWN
― honkin' on joey kramer (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 11 November 2010 01:32 (thirteen years ago) link
a construction worker, who was caught for his bomberno time to swing the hammer that was hangin' from his farmers
― quique da snique (bernard snowy), Thursday, 11 November 2010 03:42 (thirteen years ago) link
(perennially stuck in my head)
― quique da snique (bernard snowy), Thursday, 11 November 2010 03:43 (thirteen years ago) link
man Liquid Swords is totally backloaded, all the best songs are in the second half
― the Whiney G. Weingarten Memorial 77 Clique (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 11 November 2010 20:58 (thirteen years ago) link
this thread will be glad to know that I FINALLY bought Return to the 36 Chambers today thanks to all of you (they didn't have Liquid Swords or Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...)
― Baron Strange of Knockin (DJP), Thursday, 11 November 2010 21:08 (thirteen years ago) link
holy shit I'd forgotten that this is fucking amazing
― Baron Strange of Knockin (DJP), Thursday, 11 November 2010 21:11 (thirteen years ago) link
the holy ghost got you scared to death kid boo
― death panel of the mods (Edward III), Thursday, 11 November 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
that album is deep, if it weren't for my corny love for liquid swords I totally would've voted for it
the bonus tracks are so good it's hard to imagine the album without them
yell at 4:50 is incredible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlsE2Pz-AoE
― death panel of the mods (Edward III), Thursday, 11 November 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2010/12/06/101206crat_atlarge_sanneh?currentPage=4
Another great American lyricist has just published a book of his own: “Finishing the Hat” (Knopf; $39.95), by Stephen Sondheim, is curiously similar in form to “Decoded.” Sondheim is just as appealing a narrator as Jay-Z, although he’s much less polite. (While Jay-Z has almost nothing bad to say about his fellow-rappers, Sondheim is quick to disparage his rivals, subject to a “cowardly but simple” precept: “criticize only the dead.”) But where Jay-Z wants to help readers see the poetry in hip-hop, Sondheim thinks poeticism can be a problem: in his discussion of “Tonight,” from “West Side Story,” he half apologizes for the song’s “lapses into ‘poetry.’ ” And where Bradley and DuBois are quick to praise rappers for using trick rhymes and big words, Sondheim is ever on guard against “overrhyming” and other instances of unwarranted cleverness. “In theatrical fact,” he writes, “it is usually the plainer and flatter lyric that soars poetically when infused with music.” Most rappers are no less pragmatic: they use the language that works, which is sometimes ornate, but more often plainspoken, even homely. (One thinks of Webbie, the pride of Baton Rouge, deftly rhyming “drunk as a fuckin’ rhino” with “my people gon’ get they shine on.”) Maybe future anthologies will help show why the most complicated hip-hop lyrics aren’t always the most successful.
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 04:44 (thirteen years ago) link
am considering undertaking something of an academic exploration into ALL of the Wu solo albums (jesus there are a lot) and seeing what few undiscovered/underrated gems there are
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 17:13 (twelve years ago) link
U-God albums, how bad are they
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
i would read that tumblr
― this is unusual for batman. (Jordan), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 17:42 (twelve years ago) link
well first up: Cappadonna's the Pillage. This is 1/3rd of a decent record, the majority of it is pointless and at least one track (Young Heart) is outright terrible. The dude just doesn't have enough personality and wit to make a decent solo record. He has no ear for lyrical hooks, his flow is monotonous and kinda clumsy... half the time it sounds like he's just stringing random catchphrases together. Unsurprisingly, the handful of gems on here are the cuts with other Wu members, and the single (Milk the Cow) was the only one where Cappa came up with a decent hook for the chorus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqwIfllkDshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g53nActB9c0Ghost kills this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T23A61CBivohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAGKH0JFBzwone of the better beats, and probably the only song on the album that Cappa really carries all by himself:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32n_21HSp3cMeth puts Cappa to shame on this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhbYpZepYSQand the album closer, which sounds like it could've been a great song if RZA and Ghost had made the effort to actually finish it instead of just letting it run on and on for 2 extra minuteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88jCMNxr6Ac
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 17 November 2011 18:58 (twelve years ago) link
huh this GZA/Muggs record is way better than I would have expected
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 November 2011 00:23 (twelve years ago) link
That got pretty good reviews at the time iirc although i've never heard it
― Number None, Friday, 18 November 2011 00:25 (twelve years ago) link
I haven't heard anything Muggs has done since like '99 or something so I dunno if he's just aping RZA on it or if this is what he sounds like now (or did in 2005 anyway). but yeah it's solid. I'll post about it more tomorrow
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 November 2011 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
the nfl track is CHEEZY
but the rest of it is good
― lil jon & vangelis (fennel cartwright), Friday, 18 November 2011 00:55 (twelve years ago) link
i actually bought Pillage when I went through my "buy every Wu-Tang affiliated release I don't currently own, no matter how minute or pointless" phase last year. Never even got through one listen. ZzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I like the first Inspectah Deck solo album tho
― no jesus, no piece (Neanderthal), Friday, 18 November 2011 02:45 (twelve years ago) link
first u-god album is underrated imo
― upright shitizen's brigade (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 18 November 2011 02:57 (twelve years ago) link
I even bought that GZA "Pro Tools" one ....kinda meh, tho mostly due to the production.
― no jesus, no piece (Neanderthal), Friday, 18 November 2011 03:01 (twelve years ago) link
"I like the first Inspectah Deck solo album tho"
Yeah, thats a cool lp. Inspectah is great throughout. Always loved the horribly schmoopy hook on the title track, good memories trying to sing like that fool. I sing that hook to my kid on occasion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee2NrhXEGWs
R.E.C. Room is a classic Wu banger.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzDxg5psp9o
― I'm a HOOS hunter in the winter (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Friday, 18 November 2011 04:41 (twelve years ago) link
Muggs Gza album was kinda cool at the time but doesnt have any staying power. Pro Tools is boring. I bought Pillage back when, like 25% good iirc.
― I'm a HOOS hunter in the winter (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Friday, 18 November 2011 04:43 (twelve years ago) link
this is classic solo deck from 95
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs60xcgJZzo
quite aggy, this one
― missingNO, Friday, 18 November 2011 11:40 (twelve years ago) link
bob digi album is best post classic era solo lp in my humble opinion. fuck what you think, daily routine, mantis holocaust terrorist domestic violence all sick
― missingNO, Friday, 18 November 2011 11:46 (twelve years ago) link
That one had the odd good track a cool cover, but I don't think RZA's rapping can carry a whole album.
― good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Friday, 18 November 2011 11:51 (twelve years ago) link
there are some decent tracks on the first u god album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmek6pR7jO4
― historyyy (prettylikealaindelon), Friday, 18 November 2011 13:50 (twelve years ago) link
This is great (but it's on one of the Chronicles too):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31naoRYXHK4
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 18 November 2011 13:53 (twelve years ago) link
yeah was gonna come here to say that there are def some low points, the labored sex-as-football rhymes being the worst. in general it's pretty consistent. his rhyme style is so clinical and dry it can get kinda boring, his tunes really live or die on the strength of the storytelling imho. these are the ones I thought were standouts:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQPJUV3n6Sshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk4RTJzmlgohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-7g03iM3tU&feature=relatedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BudaSqOZpkE&feature=related
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 November 2011 16:27 (twelve years ago) link
y'know, Immobilarity is really not that bad
― If I was a carpenter, and you were a douchebag (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 December 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
this thread has some amazing posts
― Does the RS Tsarnaev Cover Offend You, Yeah? (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 23 July 2013 22:15 (ten years ago) link