― Patrick, Friday, 29 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
that said, i didn't mean that i thought lb liked mmm because it was extreme or because it pissed people off. the impression i got from the review was that he didn't actually like mmm much at all, that he thought it was entirely devoid of emotional depth or even any sort of affect. ("quick-job exploitation number" was his terminology of choice when he mentioned mmm in the kraftwerk review, right?) i remember the review being basically sarcastic and backhanded. he did seem to think it was more radical a record, and not just for a rock star, than i think it would have been even for 1975. lots of people had been working with drones and noise and feedback through the 60s, often less pretty-sounding than mmm, without meaning it as some sort of statement of emptiness and coldness. this is all i meant by genre context (an unfortunate term, probably) -- an awareness that this stuff is going on and that it means something. sure, you could just review feedback drones by your own rock-centric context but it would be like that wire feature where stockhausen criticized every techno record they gave him for being repetitious, overemphasizing rhythm, etc.
the stuff he said about xenakis was in another, smaller article.
again, i don't know these pieces well. this was just the impression i got when i read them a long time ago.
― sundar subramanian, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― duane zarakov, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Kodanshi, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
P.S. I wasn't nearly as impressed by Psychotic Reactions as the original poster. Too much (as typical with him and Christgau) personal baggage for my taste to be effective as a music journalist or reviewer/critic or essayist, etc - writer of non-fiction. Not that I want "Just the fact ma'am", but still. I nice mixture of the two, is what I look for in effective non-fictional writings on art.
― Allison Feldman, Sunday, 1 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Sunday, 1 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― sundar subramanian, Sunday, 1 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Patrick, Sunday, 1 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Josh, Sunday, 1 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Nick Kent's Bangs piece was run-of-the-mill, as far as "the fragile-hearted, drunken bozo word-magician who took rock criticism to a giddy height of vicarious readability" type articles go, but he had one poignant insight that never crossed my mind before: people who read his articles thought he was fab and wrote him fan letters, but the people Bangs really idolized and wanted to like him (Lou Reed, Iggy Pop) thought he was just an irritating prick, and this was devastating to him. I can't decide whether this is pathetic (who in their right mind would CARE if a snake like Reed didn't like you?) or horribly ironic and sad. Probably both.
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 29 December 2002 11:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
RIP Glen Buxton. RIP Lester Bangs.
― TC, Tuesday, 7 January 2003 04:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 12:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Omar (Omar), Wednesday, 30 July 2003 19:50 (twenty years ago) link
"Van Morrison's Astral Weeks was released ten years, almost to the day, before this was written. It was particularly important to me because the fall of 1968 was such a terrible time: I was a physical and mental wreck, nerves shredded and ghosts and spiders looming and squatting across the mind. My social contacts had dwindled to almost none; the presence of other people made me nervous and paranoid. I spent endless days and nights sunk in an armchair in my bedroom, reading magazines, watching TV, listening to records, staring into space. I had no idea how to improve the situation and probably wouldn't have done anything about it if I had. "Astral Weeks would be the subject of this piece - i.e., the rock record with the most significance in my life so far - no matter how I'd been feeling when it came out. But in the condition I was in, it assumed at the time the quality of a beacon, a light on the far shores of the murk; what's more, it was proof that there was something left to express artistically besides nihilism and destruction. (My other big record of the day was White Light/White Heat.) It sounded like the man who made Astral Weeks was in terrible pain, pain most of Van Morrison's previous works had only suggested; but like the later albums by the Velvet Underground, there was a redemptive element in the blackness, ultimate compassion for the suffering of others, and a swath of pure beauty and mystical awe that cut right through the heart of the work."
I don't understand why Lester Bangs has quite such a grand reputation: this is certainly interesting, but he doesn't resist such obvious things as making yourself the subject of the piece - or at least, if you're going to do this, not being cliched about it - and all the observations are only ever slightly outside of being cliches - I have to go but I think he makes the point better than I could, can someone tell me, maybe I just haven't read the right stuff?
-- maryann (tedium200...), June 25th, 2001.
Because read that quote again. Because screw that its cliche, or has been done, or done better. Because he has such an ENGAGING style of writing. Because he writes with such ease and grandeur without ever getting bogged down in the references and allusions, and mathematical doublespeak that makes most modern criticism read like stereo manuels. Because it's impossible to not relate to him on some level, and want to love it just as much as he does, even if you've never heard it.
― David Allen, Wednesday, 30 July 2003 21:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Thursday, 31 July 2003 05:43 (twenty years ago) link
― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 31 July 2003 10:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 11:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 31 July 2003 11:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 11:35 (twenty years ago) link
― rick rockwrite, Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:22 (twenty years ago) link
th reason is this: "We are all shit but at 3am with a head full of bad speed, cheap dope and warm beer, Young Americans become the most sincere song ever written and The Day John Kennedy Died ring like a book in the New Testement. Lester Bangs changed my life and if you have an issue witth that then mount it on the hood ornament of a '71 Mustang Mach 1, put Jonathon Richman's "Roadrunner" on the 8 track, rev it up to the redline, dump the clutch, and drive that sucker up your uptight ass. "
see also 'dance music is shit' - reason: "we were listening to banco de gaia and sitting in crookes valley park and the sun was coming up and we were tripping on acid and everything was crazy colours and it was so spiritual etc etc etc"
― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 31 July 2003 12:39 (twenty years ago) link
Put crassly, some old guy liked some other old guy's music. So?What's it to me?
― mei (mei), Thursday, 31 July 2003 18:35 (twenty years ago) link
i lke LB but not that piece; VM can eat a bag of dicks
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 31 July 2003 18:40 (twenty years ago) link
(VM must have a voracious appetite)
― mei (mei), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:19 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:22 (twenty years ago) link
― mei (mei), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:27 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:31 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:32 (twenty years ago) link
― J (Jay), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:40 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:57 (twenty years ago) link
― David. (Cozen), Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:58 (twenty years ago) link
― J (Jay), Thursday, 31 July 2003 20:04 (twenty years ago) link
-- mei (meirion.lewi...), July 31st, 2003.
Then why give a shit about anything?
― David Allen, Friday, 1 August 2003 01:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 04:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 04:22 (twenty years ago) link
-- David Allen (en@senbm), July 30th, 2003.
Many reasons to give a damn, but LB doesn't convince me to.
― mei (mei), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:51 (twenty years ago) link
― mei (mei), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:52 (twenty years ago) link
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 06:58 (twenty years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:01 (twenty years ago) link
greil marcus's agenda pushing amounted to including two pieces on elvis and nothing on black sabbath. that and calling bangs "the best writer in america." gee, what a rotten guy. let it blurt, meanwhile, includes about a million "wow, what a slob lester was" anecdotes and next to nothing about his actual writing. conclusion: jim derogatis is a twat.
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:16 (twenty years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:26 (twenty years ago) link
― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:27 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 1 August 2003 07:42 (twenty years ago) link
i wouldn't rule out a later in life jazz turn either
i mean, his favourite album was The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady and he attacked James Chance for trying to (racistly) paper over his debt to Ayler
― Yngwie Azalea (stevie), Thursday, 19 October 2023 14:40 (six months ago) link
oh yeah i just meant like retreating into old jazz and stuff like that and not really engaged w/anything modern - that's not uncommon
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 October 2023 14:49 (six months ago) link
there's days i feel like doing that lol
oh yes indeed, same!
― Yngwie Azalea (stevie), Thursday, 19 October 2023 14:51 (six months ago) link
my dad used to drive us through london pointing out the tiny basements where he saw hendrix play, the last year of his life he was dead into cassettes of oscar peterson playing verrrrrry quietly, and celine dion. it's the arc.
― Yngwie Azalea (stevie), Thursday, 19 October 2023 14:52 (six months ago) link
I remember Lester did an article summarizing various drugs. I was about 12 at the time, it felt so subversive.
Yeah that might have been the cover story of the circa 1973 Creem issue with a giant quaalude on the cover. To everything turn turn turn, there is a season etc
I do wish Lester would've written his proposed version of Four Lives In the Bebop Business, which included Brian Eno, Lydia Lunch and I forget who else.
― hunter's lapdance (m coleman), Thursday, 19 October 2023 16:53 (six months ago) link
was it Arto Lindsay and Adele Bertei
― mark s, Thursday, 19 October 2023 17:06 (six months ago) link
non-joke answer: it was eno, lunch, marianne faithfull, and screamin’ jay hawkins or robbie robertson or danny fields
― mark s, Thursday, 19 October 2023 17:12 (six months ago) link
Ah Danny Fields definitely. But your first answer sounded plausible. Bangs championed DNA and cf her recent memoir, Adele has lived a full life in and outside of the music business.
― hunter's lapdance (m coleman), Thursday, 19 October 2023 17:17 (six months ago) link
There's an extensive version of his Eno article online: https://www.furious.com/perfect/bangseno.html
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 19 October 2023 17:19 (six months ago) link
i just liked the idea of a "four lives in the NO WAVE business" potboiler quickie
― mark s, Thursday, 19 October 2023 17:20 (six months ago) link
loving that Eno piece, thank you!
dying @ this:
"As many critics have pointed out (and as Eno himself noted in the liner notes to Discreet Music), this is very close to Erik Satie, who wanted to make music that could "mingle with the sound of the knives and forks at dinner." (Perhaps this is why Pierre Boulez once wrote an essay entitled "Erik Satie: Spineless Dog.")"
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Thursday, 19 October 2023 18:36 (six months ago) link
V early bobbins usage too
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 19 October 2023 18:50 (six months ago) link
this is a little off topic but i've never quite understood what ilm "bobbins" meant? (outside of its sewing meaning which it must mean something else?)
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 October 2023 18:54 (six months ago) link
I've assumed it means dance music that makes you "bob" your head up and down, but I might be wrong? It did take me an embarrassingly long time to figure out what "challops" meant
― J. Sam, Thursday, 19 October 2023 19:19 (six months ago) link
ahhh okay yeah i'm bad a catching things like that
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 October 2023 19:21 (six months ago) link
I don't know what it means on ILM but...
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bobbins
― The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Thursday, 19 October 2023 19:38 (six months ago) link
a little bit of this and that
― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Thursday, 19 October 2023 19:47 (six months ago) link
derives from the Lancashire cotton mills, I think.
― fetter, Thursday, 19 October 2023 19:54 (six months ago) link
Psychotic Bobbins and Carburetor Challops
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 19 October 2023 19:57 (six months ago) link
fascinating linguistic evolution - a technical term from the mills is generalised to mean rubbish in lancs dialect and in this vein used to refer to techno(?) in a thread title on an online message board and this definition sticks for years among people who have never seen a bobbin or been to manchester
bangs is using it literally I assume
― Left, Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:26 (six months ago) link
something similar could be said about challops where the ILM usage (roughly hot takes?) is closer but still different from the definition I was familiar with (balls) but idk what the original meaning is or where it comes from
― Left, Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:30 (six months ago) link
That sounds more like gubbins than bobbins tbh.
― The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:39 (six months ago) link
Challops = challenging opinions
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:41 (six months ago) link
Yeah that might have been the cover story of the circa 1973 Creem issue with a giant quaalude on the cover.
It is entirely possible that I am conflating articles, but in the one I am thinking of he said of cocaine, "It will make you feel like the greatest person in the world. Yes, even greater than Erik Estrada." That would put it in at least 1977, although I am not sure how much sense that makes, since he left Creem in 1976.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:52 (six months ago) link
it’s more that the person posting thinks they’re posting a challenging opinion, isn’t it? Like, “there, I’ve said it”
― brimstead, Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:53 (six months ago) link
re challops
― brimstead, Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:54 (six months ago) link
i can't really read lester anymore. he's better when you are young and dumb and reading bukowski or whoever. and he's very dude. i do like that eno thing! but he could be really dense in a cringey way. or it seems like that now. like people have said, he was young when he died. i think i was older than 33 when i STARTED writing rockcrit. i definitely stole from him. couldn't help it really. i grew up with creem. and the voice. cool thing: i read at nyu at one of those conferences and jim miller was the moderator and after he said to me "i used to edit lester bangs and i know how hard it is to do what you just did." !!!! i thought that was cool. (i didn't have the heart to tell him that it wasn't THAT hard. but i did work the thing i wrote pretty hard.)
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:57 (six months ago) link
And his drug of choice was fuckin' cough syrup, ferchrissakes.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Thursday, 19 October 2023 20:58 (six months ago) link
OG lean addict! he probably would have been a big dj screw fan if he had lived.
― scott seward, Thursday, 19 October 2023 21:03 (six months ago) link
I don’t know what it’s particularly a sign of, but someone has to cite or write their own version of the The White Noise Supremacists article every so often. I remember that happening 20 years ago, and recently a guy who was in a popular band at that time wrote his own! Carlos D didn’t even bother to mention Lester despite hitting all the same notes
― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Thursday, 19 October 2023 21:06 (six months ago) link