Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

they've got hip-hop beats?

He's maybe the only major rock and roller who's an ascetic (I've seen one photo of him drinking a beer).

i don't know about nowadays but in his glory days he was not shy about being completely sloshed in public. anyone who lived on the jersey shore in the '80s, for example, can tell you stories.

baby he was born to rap

x-post The Storytellers ep is classic if only for his hilarious tale of his evil doppelganger, the one that gets spotted drinking, smoking and going to strip clubs:

"One time," continues Bruce, "as I reached the parking lot, a man and a woman spied me and said, 'Bruce, you aren't supposed to be here.' I could see where they were going with the whole thing, so I said, 'I'm not. I am simply an errant figment of one of Bruce's many selves. I drift in the ether over the highways and byways of the Garden State, often touching down in image-incongruous but fun places. Bruce does not even know I'm missing. He is at home right now, doing good deeds.' That usually stupefies and satisfies them. Hey, I gotta get through the world somehow."

anyone who lived on the jersey shore in the '80s, for example, can tell you stories.

Share, by all means.

v true imo that all the pre btr stuff is very sorta scuzzy boho in vibe, btr was where he decided he wanted to be a novelist im

seems to me that a scuzzy boho poet in a wool cap has as much if not more of a claim to salt-of-the-earthness as a novelist who measures his words. but maybe i'm not understanding what salt of the earth means in this context. generally, i think of him as someone who has long sung about salt-of-the-earth types. what he is himself, i've never particularly needed to know.

right what i was getting at w/the novelist thing was that he decided to get really deep into the whole "writing with depth and a great degree of craft about a specific kind of american life" thing, not that he himself was necessarily of what he wrote about

I can see that parallel, to novelists. Early Bruce is more Dylan-y stream-of-consciousness (but consciously so). Later on he conflates his interests and influences in a much more efficient way, helped along by his smart new buddies.

also kinda prefer vinnie jones to max weinberg

got a little more swing

hahahahah a vinnie lopez hahah not the dude from lock stock and 2 smoking barrels, tho that would be a sweet lineup.

dream e street band lineup

vinnie jones - drums
brian bosworth - keyboards
carl weathers - guitar
michael dudikoff - percussion
treat williams - bass
jason statham - saxophone

dudikoff can rage on the cowbell

it's the martial arts training

I'm waiting for the dirt on Broose gropin' hookers.

The Bruce Springsteen - Asbury Diner story

I am going to take you up west a few blocks to the corner of Asbury Ave and Main Street across from the fire station was the Asbury Diner. I worked there on and off as a waitress from 1969 to 1972 and always on the night shift which was from 10PM - 5 AM. There were many regulars each unique with their own stories to tell. Every night person in the area would stop by 'The Diner' sometime during the night.

I remember one regular who would come in anywhere between 2 and 4 in the mornings. He always seemed wasted to some degree and I wasn't sure if it were drugs and/or alcohol. He was always soft spoken and polite and more often than not would come in alone. A young boy, good looking, if you could look through the fog and see him. His speech always mumbled, slurred and soft with a crocked smile when he would be gazing at the menu, unable to articulate what it was that he wanted. But I knew what it was, as he had the same thing every time he came in like that. He wanted eggs fried sunnyside up. I have to say, I don't remember what else he ate with those eggs, but I remember those eggs. I would bring him his plate and sometimes he would eat, but most times not. He would be staring at his eggs with his head bobbing back and forth. I knew it was time to go in the kitchen and get a clean warm and wet dish towel. No sooner would I come back and yep...his face had fallen right flat in the middle of his untouched face, His look was one of confusion and embarrassment. My towel was ready as I washed his face and his hair that had streaks of yellow yolk on it while taking the plate away. I would help him stand, as he still looked lost...he would kind of point to his jean pocket and I would go in there and fetch the $1.37 cents that was needed to pay his check and he would be on his way. Sometimes when you have memories from years ago, you wonder what happened to some of these people. I have good news. That young man is doing well today, but I have no idea if he still likes his eggs sunnyside up.

I never minded waiting on his table and I was usually the one who did, as the other waitresses hated to not so much because of the mess but because he never tipped a dime. I must have waited on him a couple of hundred times. A tip back then for what he had would be anywhere from 15 cents to 25 cents.

So, today I am permanently disabled on SSD get my food from free food pantries, get meals on wheels and live in senior HUD housing. I am poor. I figure this guy kind of owes me $40.00. I know if he was not so wasted he would have tipped, he just had some poor judgment at those times. So, if anyone runs into Bruce Springsteen, please ask him if perhaps he might want to tip me now? I sure could use it. Thanks, Barbara

Maybe that's why he shaved off the beard and ditched the hats! He's on the run from a waitress with a great memory.

right what i was getting at w/the novelist thing was that he decided to get really deep into the whole "writing with depth and a great degree of craft about a specific kind of american life" thing, not that he himself was necessarily of what he wrote about

The 33-1/3 book on Born In The USA goes into this very, VERY deeply. He spent a shit-ton on time working and reworking the songs that became Nebraska, Born In The USA and all the contemporaneous B-sides and unreleased stuff.

Springsteen has famously said that he has never smoked pot, never heard any evidence to the contrary. That would be very strange though for a young guy making a living in bands during the late 60s and 70s who also loves reggae.

i guess that "making of darkness on the edge of town" doc is on hbo tonight? wish i had hbo.

good vintage footage turned into a deathly boring hagiography, unsurprisingly.

three things about it, though:

1. the old footage of bruce and little steven at a piano doing impromptu renditions of "sherry darling" and "talk to me" as if they were knocking out demos in the brill building in 1965 is priceless, and suggests a very different album they might have made in 1978 (and that steven, for one, clearly would have preferred to make).

2. chuck plotkin gives the most perfect explanation i've ever heard of how to mix the vocal on a rock and roll record.

3. this was, according to the opening and closing credits, "a film by thom zimny," which was produced, directed and edited "by thom zimny." and yet: "bruce springsteen is the author of this motion picture under british law." i found that last credit puzzling, especially in a film whose first 22 minutes were devoted to springsteen's long struggle to win back control and ownership of his music from his original manager. mike appel, on the principle that the artist has a moral right to own his art. one imagines a "mike appel is the author of this sound recording" credit on the back cover of "born to run" would not have sat too well with bruce.

1. the old footage of bruce and little steven at a piano doing impromptu renditions of "sherry darling" and "talk to me" as if they were knocking out demos in the brill building in 1965 is priceless, and suggests a very different album they might have made in 1978 (and that steven, for one, clearly would have preferred to make).

yes that was so fuckin great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBcW3lSgK2s

Springsteen has famously said that he has never smoked pot, never heard any evidence to the contrary.

Where did he say that? Nobody's going to mistake him for Keith Richards, but that sounds a little extreme.

Everybody in NJ hears Bruce stories, who knows if they're true or not. I heard one that a club owner in Asbury used to pay them in pot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idnJnjV_8rg&ob=av3e

I'm sure at some point this video was posted and a few people talked about how incredible it is. But this is the first I've seen it and goddammit I am uncomfortable.

darkness never really clicked with me, i watched this doc largely to see if getting some context for it would help and

something about the production still bothers me, cause it doesn't have the wall of sound of btr but it still has the kinda bog standard late 70s grandiosity about it

i'm getting it more now but

still a stretch tbh

deathly boring hagiography

Given the standard of most rock docs, this seems a bit harsh. It doesn't go out of its way to disguise the fact that Springsteen could be a pain in the ass, and it invites Mike Appel to put his side of the lawsuit. But yeah, Cluck Plotkin's bit is a highlight - loved the way he related Springsteen's cinematic description of the opening notes of Adam Raised a Cain.

I think Van Zandt is dead wrong about the "lost" album (aka The Promise). The bulk of it sounds like a series of expert pastiches which might have been given to other artists (as some were) but would have done Springsteen no favours at all as a follow-up to Born to Run. It's just goofing around. Van Zandt probably liked this stuff because Springsteen didn't care enough about it to drive everyone nuts making them do 73 takes.

yeah if anything i came away with the impression dude was impossible to work for

I laughed at the bit about getting the right drum sound. "Stick… stick… stick… stick…"

like i kinda felt like we were supposed to come away with this idea of him as the heartland brian wilson or something

Looking forward to your "Why I No Longer Hate Bruce Springsteen" Guardian blog Dorian.

Er, yeah. Maybe not. The first blog was really more about certain Springsteen fans I know, and they still annoy me tbh, but I was trolling a bit there, back before the comment boxes had sapped my will to live.

Where did he say that? Nobody's going to mistake him for Keith Richards, but that sounds a little extreme.

I can believe his claim. The rest of the band, on the other hand, certainly enjoyed life, at least some of them. After Federici died, Springsteen told lots of heartwarming stories of the guy's hellraising.

Springsteen's "Farewell to Danny" is a good read:

http://springsteeninformationcenter.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/farewell-to-danny/

Springsteen always struck me as strictly a beer man.

Now that I think of it, a recent RS interview noted his drinking Patron.

like i kinda felt like we were supposed to come away with this idea of him as the heartland brian wilson or something

this is kind of an interesting thing to say - I mean - the reason that "Brian Wilson" is a brand we can invoke as a comparison is that the craft-ness of what he does draws so much attention to itself, that he makes sure you notice that the sound is sculpted, built - whereas a Springsteen record, no less sculpted/built/layered, aims to disguise that quality, or at least downplay it, like a guy palming a quarter doesn't want you to see him palm the quarter: he wants you to believe in magic, right

I go for the "work really hard and try to make it look like it all just came right from the gut" approach, myself, and enjoy the stories of "that off-handed 'yeah!' right before the guitar solo? that was take no. 110 of the evening just of that 'yeah," nobody talked to Bruce for days after that"

Springsteen puts a heck of a lot more thought into what he does than many give him credit for. He's a real craftsman.

YEP. those who reflexively assume otherwise are not paying nearly enough attention to his interviews, or to the work itself, for that matter.

Who thinks this? And why should it matter?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs316.snc3/28475_400818639422_663169422_4292945_6804175_n.jpg

Who thinks this? And why should it matter?

I dunno, Maybe ask the folks who to this day continually misconstrue or misread the message and intent of a lot of his songs? If anything, the lazy parsing of his lyrics/interviews/stated intent has allowed him to escape getting branded some sort of pinko subversive by conservatives, who happily appropriate him and his music even if he explicitly does not support their agenda. If he were a novelist, they'd be banning/burning his books and calling him a Communist.

that's the hat i was talking about!!!! aw love that lil' hippie

I doubt any conservative claims Springsteen as one of their own in 2010.

He's more outspoken about his politics now than in 1984.

Also: It doesn't at all detract from the quality of his songs if he pulled a Bowie or Dylan and just threw down some chords before moving on to the party.

i dont think anyone thinks it would?

Well, Josh implies that it's a relief to find out how much thought he puts into his songs. To be honest, as much as I love Bruce, it's his earnestness that's a real grind; he wants you to know how hard he works. I totally get why Ned, for example, can't be bothered.

You don't think Springsteen takes any responsibility for some of those misreadings, Josh? It's an old argument, I know, but I think he was naive to think the sound and imagery of Born in the USA wouldn't cause the message to be misread. When that many people get the meaning of a piece of art wrong then the artist has to take some responsibility.

I think the point about not being widely understood as a craftsman is more interesting, just because before I had any real interest in him I always saw his image as some kind of noble savage embodying the pure spirit of rock'n'roll, blah blah blah, rather than a guy who spent hours upon hours trying to get the right sound. These days I find it quite endearing actually - this sense that he justifies his escape from the smalltown grind by making sure he works incredibly hard - it's a moral principle in a way it wasn't for a perfectionist auteur like Brian Wilson - but I can see why some might find that aspect a drag.

In his essay in the boxset (first published 1999 I think) he says that he could spend hours on a single line of lyrics on Darkness, which did make me wonder whether he couldn't have maybe found some synonyms for "dream" and "darkness" while he was at it.

And even a cursory listen to Born to Run and TOL (my favoritte) shows how meticulously they're assembled.

Kerry was the first time Springsteen formally endorsed anyone, but it's not like there was some mystery about his political leanings. Yet even as hyper-partisan as things are today, conservatives still give him a pass they wouldn't give many others. Do they think he's one of them? Probably some of them still do! Regardless, the guy could take Pete Seeger out to dinner with Bill Ayers for an ACORN fundraiser on May Day and there would still be conservative politicians lined up for a backstage meet and greet.

I don't think Springsteen could have been more clear about the meanings of most of his misunderstood songs. It's not like he's writing metaphorically, and even when he does, how could anyone construe twisters and darkness as good things? It's not like "Born in the USA" (for example) is some ambiguous Swiftian satire. Even "Hungry Heart," his first real hit, starts out with a dude running out on his family. It's the first line! So, yeah, I chalk it up to lazy listeners, though maybe innocently so, akin to the folks who ignore Mick Jagger's "you make a dead man come" line. (And that line is kind of buried at the end; imagine if it started the song and people still missed it!)

By the way, I am often puzzled at Springsteen's use of some words and phrases over and over again, which is something he has in common with Neil Young. Their passions perhaps run deeper than their inspirations.

The only way to misconstrue the meaning of "Born In The USA" is by replacing the word "Ginger" with "Born In The USA" below:

http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/Chatters/FullSize/ginger_large.gif