Ned, let's talk about your 136 Albums of the 90s.

re you giving YOURSELF a fair chance to listen to hip hop?

90s lists made in actual proximity to the 90s are always so much more interesting than lists people make today.

Also, Ned - God Machine! Haven't heard them in years years years.

I've got other writers lists from the same source, if anyone is interested.

Where can you find the individual writers' lists from the pitchfork 90s thing? And are there individual lists for PFM's singles countdown?

Also, Ned - God Machine! Haven't heard them in years years years.

They'll be coming up in a Not Just the Ticket entry soonish...

Looking forward to it.

I've got other writers lists from the same source, if anyone is interested.

Yes please. Not so much out of morbid curiosity, but because I'd like to see what Mark R. and others were spinning at the time.

Link?

88. Dave Matthews Band - Under the Table and Dreaming

I predict this'll make you double take.

― I will always think of you, while (quite) fondly, myself (Evan)

It's even higher in the original list that 0tt posted upthread -- #70!!

Going thru cee-oh-tee-tee's list a few posts up:

OWN: 56 / 100

USED TO OWN, SOLD: 15 / 100 (Liz Phair, Built to Spill, Tricky [agree w/ Ned, Maxinquaye is really overrated], SDRE, Weezer [lol 8th grade], RATM [lol 9th grade], D-Plan, Oasis, Swirlies [zzzzz], Sebadoh, B&S [lol indie], Quicksand, Dave Matthews [lol 7th grade]).

DON'T OWN: 29 / 100 - mostly snoozy indie rock I guess??

NEED TO PICK UP: Oval - 94diskont, Sinead O'Connor - I Do Not Want..., Burger/Ink - Vegas. I haven't yet stumbled across Oval or Burger/Ink used but I've really got no excuse for not having heard that Sinead O'Connor by now.

Would be v. curious to know how many of his top 100 Chr1s 0tt still owns in 2010...

What a thread. Weird there are differences, I must have like spot-edited the one I submitted? Bizarre. The one I pasted must be the one I had on my computer - the one you found is what counted. I still own all of these insofar as they're on my hard drive(s), but of course feel some of the choices are absurd, dishonest, or different today. Perfect example is The Flaming Lips in the Top 10. I hate the Flaming Lips to death and always have but there was such inordinate praise for the band at the time that I felt pressure as a supposed "critic" to conform to that consensus. That is a glaringly ugly thing for me. The other changes would be ones of over-estimation or weighting to push the record higher in aggregate (Spiderland, ugh, Pod is too high). Green Mind is too low, Entroducing at 4 or 8 is ridiculous in either case, Warlock Pinchers was complete challops but you can all have Die Antwoord instead, you deserve them.

Glad I repped for All Shook Down and Karate, a few others I still think are excellent "full lengths" often ignored. The pop-punk smattering was semi-challops because it was so unfashionable at the time and everyone was ignoring there were some good, fun bands in that mix. Happy to have My Brain Hurts in the Top 40, probably still would today. Achtung Baby is insanely too-low (one worse than Us! Hahaha) and there are plenty of other dumb decisions to laugh at. All I can say is I was creditably honest in most of these choices, less concerned about whether or not they made me look "cool" or were being clocked by others. If you pit that list against others from the same time I think that's a net positive. In the same way other staff members stumped for the Wrens or Walt Mink; I just had better taste.

Dearth of hip-hop is like saying "WHERE ARE THE COUNTRY ALBUMS". I mean that's such a hack complaint. DAS RACIST U DIDN'T CHART the biggest white-affirmed genre of the decade...let's let that drift.

Props on All Shook Down and Achtung Baby, those are both great. Have you heard anything in the '04-'10 timespan that you'd add to yr list in retrospect? (Glaringly obvious oversights -- off the top of your head, of course.)

i think these lists of opinion by lots of people are extraordinarily useful in todays music world -- i can only admire Ned's useful hyper-qualified effort here -- i wish that more of people's big lists were so good at qualification, on rationale.

Seconding this from way upthread, by the way. Can anyone else recommend any other great *personal* lists with running commentary and interesting tastes ('60s to '00s) that are done in a similar fashion to Ned's 136 albums and Tom's top 100 singles?

I think the biggest blind-spot, despite the hip-hop contentiousness at the time, is actually Britpop. You can see I was a diehard shoegaze/baggy stoner stranded by the shift toward UK-centric attitudes and preen/suss - because I couldn't appreciate the under/overtones, because it seemed like stale retro arena rock...the implications of that stuff only ripened for me later, as I was older/wiser/did better drugs. When I made that list it was still early days looking back through that period, still interpreting it as a mostly singles-driven moment with few epic Albums. You know, like the Archers of Loaf's Vee Vee. *facepalm*

All I can say is I was creditably honest in most of these choices, less concerned about whether or not they made me look "cool" or were being clocked by others.

So do your recent claims that you've never cared for CR past "Stop Breathin" mean your more concerned about looking "cool" now?

or is it like the soft bulletin, where you were concerned about looking "cool"

That's not what I claimed. It's what I feel now. Read it again.

The retroactive statement I made was in re: turning that album off when "Gold Soundz" came on, which I did almost without fail. It's a boring song that mostly reminded me the album was about to shit the bed and I should pick out something else.

so you couldn't think of 55 albums in the 90s that didn't shit the bed halfway through?

again, is this one of those albums you put on your list out of critical peer pressure despite finding seriously flawed, or one of the ones you're patting on yourself on the back for honestly enjoying at the time?

damn son

You've asked a different question (and clarified, good).

The first three songs on CRCR are individually among my personal faves for the decade. I would rank it probably slightly lower today, but it's still a really good record through "Range Life", even if I think "Gold Soundz" is middling and "Range Life" is something of a standalone novelty cut. I don't think it qualifies for back-patting, especially weeks away from Pitchfork calling "Gold Soundz" the best song of the entire decade. Its profile is a little high for that. Versus, say, Karate.

ah see cuz I was confused after I got this

As far as I'm concerned this band ends at "Stop Breathing".

― cee-oh-tee-tee, Friday, September 10, 2010 6:48 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark

when I asked if you'd always hated "Gold Soundz" on its thread.

Link?

http://tclub.obninsk.ru/psb/pitchforkmedia.html

14. Warlock Pinchers - Circusized Peanuts

^^^awesome pick :) :)

Not to play captain save-an-ott, but could everyone else on this thread also post lists that they made 10+ years ago that they feel 100% secure in now?

i pains me that future generations will never know "morrissey rides a cock horse"

Not to play captain save-an-ott, but could everyone else on this thread also post lists that they made 10+ years ago that they feel 100% secure in now?

Personally, what I find fascinating isn't that tastes change, but that he claims to hav put an album in his Top Ten by a band he's always hated solely because of the critical peer pressure he felt (That his take on CRCR softened after this list was pulled up is less surprising). There are plenty of albums I overrated due to critical Kool-Aid and naivete, but I can't think of a time I pushed an album knowing it sucks.

Not clowning 0tt's list at all, I think it's pretty good (given that I own >50% of its albums, I'd be a fool to say otherwise).

xxp

Deadly Kung-Fu is sort of in-between music and a Jerky Boys tape; Peanuts is a real record, I still love "Introducing Ourselves" and "Dancehall" to death. Colorado Krew 7"s have to go for big bucks today.

but I can't think of a time I pushed an album knowing it sucks.

That is a valid argument there, irt the Pavement, but it kind of felt like everyone was piling on Ott.

Link?

http://tclub.obninsk.ru/psb/pitchforkmedia.html

Hey thanks, this is awesome. Totally love the looks of Mark R.'s list, pretty consistent with what I've come to discern as his tastes these days. DLe0ne's list is really great as well. St0suy's list is good, some heavier and out-there stuff on his and Dom's both. And if you're looking for a '90s hip-hop centric list, R0llie P.'s cites some really really great albums.

Admittedly I thought Ryan Schr3ib3r's list was great -- Daniel Johnson as #1 pick?? followed by XTC, Daft Punk and the Cure -- until I realized he ranked his list in reverse... Bonnie Prince Billy, Neutral Milk Hotel 1-2 punch... zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I mean, any list I would have made in 1999 had I put one together, would have held both Terror Twilight and Californication in embarrassingly high esteem.

You're assuming my intentions to frame an indictment, croup. And you're wrong and sad. I listened to Soft Bulletin a lot when it came out and still like "Buzzin'", but the idea that it's one of the 10 best records of the decade, that was an editorial mission, of using the album as a means to call out something very new as canon for the decade, lending Pitchfork herald status. That's an idea I went along with, and that infected my consideration of it against the music I was more personally invested in - like the Warlock Pinchers, for example. I was caught up in something else, something less honest, it embarrasses me to recognize it now, but that's all there is to it.

I've mentioned before how hilarious it was when this ran; Ryan took Rollie's list and folded into the aggregate results the way one shuffles a deck of cards. All pretense to continuity out the window, must pretend "we get rap".

dude you said I hate the Flaming Lips to death and always have forgive me for not thinking you dug "buzzin'"

I find it hard to understand, let alone forgive, your obsession with this entire discourse, but I'll chalk it up to the distance between where we both are in life.

lol

Ryan took Rollie's list and folded into the aggregate results the way one shuffles a deck of cards. All pretense to continuity out the window, must pretend "we get rap".

looooooooool @ this

pretty sure we're both married dudes not seeking careers in rockcrit who still post on ILX and laugh about what Ryan Schrieber wrote in 1998, ott. I just don't also post on Hipinion.

Re: folding hip-hop albums into the 2003 list... does Schreiber listen to any hip-hop nowadays?? I mean, obviously dude is enthused about stuff like Deerhunter, Bear in Heaven, Bon Iver, Real Estate, Surfer Blood, Grizzly Bear, etc. but has he broadened out from his little indie-rock safety net in recent years? (Not that I'm condemning him either way, tastes are tastes; just curious.)

listening to hip hop is so dangerous

R0ll13 P3mb3rt0n's Pfork list is fantastic, at least 50-55 albums there that I really really love. Any opinions on the following stuff, which I've never heard? (Guessing this is 99% hip-hop, I'm just wondering what's worth prioritizing and hearing.)

2. Aceyalone - A Book Of Human Language
3. Black Sheep - A Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing
10. Casual - Fear Itself
25. Organized Konfusion - Stress: The Extinction Agenda
27. Ras Kass - Soul On Ice
34. Gravediggaz - 6 Feet Deep
43. Freestyle Fellowship - To Whom It May Concern
45. Method Man - Tical
46. Prince Paul - A Prince Among Thieves
47. UNKLE - Psyence Fiction
48. Brand Nubian - One For All
49. Handsome Boy Modelling School - So…How’s Your Girl?
53. Souls of Mischief - 93 ‘Til Infinity
59. Onyx - All We Got Iz Us
60. Freestyle Fellowship - Innercity Griots
63. Del Tha Funkee Homosapien - No Need For Alarm
64. Mobb Deep - The Infamous
68. Buck 65 - Vertex
73. Digable Planets - Blowout Comb
74. KRS-One - Return of the Boom Bap
83. Mobb Deep - Hell On Earth
85. Rawkus Presents Soundbombing II
88. Redman - Dare Iz A Darkside
91. OC - Word Life
98. Main Source - Breaking Atoms

at least 80 percent of those are hip-hop canon classics (or second-tier hip-hop canon classics) to a greater or lesser extent.

I like pretty much all the albums on that list I've heard (Gravediggaz, Prince Paul, Brand Nubian, Mobb Deep, Digable Planets) though Handsome Boy is pretty hit-or-miss in hindsight. Been meaning to check out the Souls Of Mischief full-length cuz the title track is so damn good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skjgq4ILB_s

ironically enough I first heard the loop from 93 in a blend and what made of that and TI's "I'm Serious"

these would be my four choices-to-check-out-first, simply based on how much i like them, though really everything except the two prince paul records and unkle are pretty solid start to finish:

25. Organized Konfusion - Stress: The Extinction Agenda
48. Brand Nubian - One For All
64. Mobb Deep - The Infamous
98. Main Source - Breaking Atoms

Rollie was 17 years old when he made that list.

2. Aceyalone - A Book Of Human Language totally don't remember a thing about this, altho I owned it at one point.
3. Black Sheep - A Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing GREAT, funny, fairly low-key, lots of jokey sex rhymes.
25. Organized Konfusion - Stress: The Extinction Agenda dunno how this measures up to the debut, which is really solid
45. Method Man - Tical this is one of the weirdest, murkiest, darkest sounding hip hop records I have ever heard. it's not really as great as the other first-string solo Wu releases but it's definitely worth hearing. the beats sound like they were all recorded underwater in a garbage can.
46. Prince Paul - A Prince Among Thieves CLASSIC, severely underrated. probably the best hip-hop concept album ever, and one that tells a coherent, clever story with solid performances from all involved plus top-notch head-nodding Prince Paul beats.
48. Brand Nubian - One For All CLASSIC. I think there's only one track on here that is not fantastic. 5 Percenters + Native Tongues, basically.
49. Handsome Boy Modelling School - So…How’s Your Girl? HORRIBLE. god I hate the Automator. a bummer that Prince Paul ever got involved with him
60. Freestyle Fellowship - Innercity Griots kinda the West Coast answer to Native Tongues (aceyalone above was the main "breakout" member). rapping is amazingly nimble and dense but apart from one or two tracks I always felt their beats were kinda blah. Bullies of the Block is a great opening track tho.
63. Del Tha Funkee Homosapien - No Need For Alarm heretical challops = I prefer his first album (which sounds more like an Ice Cube album)
64. Mobb Deep - The Infamous CLASSIC
73. Digable Planets - Blowout Comb CLASSIC, better than the first
98. Main Source - Breaking Atoms CLASSIC

at least 80 percent of those are hip-hop canon classics (or second-tier hip-hop canon classics) to a greater or lesser extent.

this is pretty true, altho it's kinda more heavily weighted on the backpacker end of things.