Vinyl records make a return

The Bends is 48:37 on 1 LP.
Kid A is 49:57 on 2 LPs.

I just don't get it. Does a minute & 20 seconds really make that much difference? Also additionally frustrating because I always thought "Treefingers" would be a great Side A closer.

kid A is on a 10" lp iirc

you can def get more on a record (prefab sprout's jordan the comeback, for example, is 64 minutes long and was issued as a single lp). there are quality concerns, i guess, the more you fit on one side. i guess the people who buy records now are willing to spend more, so you have all these 180 gram high quality pressings, and a lot of double albums. personally i like albums to be on one lp whenever possible.

i think the "over 20 minutes" crowd are being a little hypersensitive. it's only at 25+ minutes that sound quality starts to be an issue for me. that said, the double 12" 45 format, with like 10-15 minutes of music per side, sounds fantastic. southern lord and relapse do this a lot, and as long as they keep costs semi-reasonable, i approve.

crowd is/crowds are

Yeah, I'm on the fence b/c I really hate slogging through double albums. But I just bought a new pressing of The Boy With The Arab Strap and the sound is bad on the last song and a half on either side. I dunno if that's just a badly-done record or just a fundamental problem cramming too much on one disc.

wait, nm, i just checked and it's only 45:18, so fuck those guys

The less on a disc the loud you can make the pressing as the grooves are wider, and also cut things like bass louder/have more complex waveforms without the needle jumping out of the groove etc. Something probably not much an issue with The Bends.

the *louder*

A buddy told me about a four disc single sided 45 RPM edition of Big Star's Radio City, but I haven't seen anything about that anywhere.
There's also something similar for Led Zeppelin, I guess. I dunno.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/25/antidote-to-capitalism-33-revolutions-minute

Anecdotal evidence suggests the consumers responsible are not just hard-bitten types – men, usually – of a certain age, but much younger people.

I reach for a record, and take 40 minutes or so to give it my undivided attention. So as to be kept in its original condition, it must be carefully played as its creators intended, and also divided by the lovely pause for reflection in between sides one and two

The sound quality is way better than anything digital

when the iPod era ended with the arrival of the streaming service Spotify, the infinite jukebox of millions of dreams was made real. Here, though, is the problem: as I distractedly jump from song to song, am I actually listening, or merely hearing?

modern pop has little time for delayed gratification, so intros must be quickened, choruses brought forward, and the most banal buttons pushed.

sorry, would go on but i just shat in my own mouth

Dreadful, dreadful article. I love vinyl, but sound quality better than anything digital? Please.

Good thing no one told him that the overwhelming majority of vinyl reissues (including the Beatles box) are mastered from digital sources.

You what format rules? SACD!

I love vinyl, but honestly vinyl ppl don't need any uh ”help” from guys like this

but vinyl does sound better than mp3, mp3 is going to be regarded as such a joke in 20 years, just an 8 track transitional format

But yeah SACD is like the good things about vinyl and the good things about digital

I've heard 24bit/194 files too at a friends house, you can get them online now, wow, they sound great

Just can't wait for bandwidth & broadband to get to the point where this stuff is mainstream, because it's stilly to think something as niche as the vinyl fad is going to save sound quality, or shaming ppl about convenience

People will always choose convenience, why wouldn't they, it's a perfectly rational equation

But it does suck that so many ppl listen to music at such poor fidelity, I work in video games so it's weird to see fidelity go down from generation to generation, especially when it doesn't seem like it's necessary

People will always choose convenience, why wouldn't they, it's a perfectly rational equation

That's definitely part of it, but I think cost plays a larger part. I mean, decent headphones can dramatically improve ipod listening (depending on the bitrate of the files, a variable almost never addressed in articles like this), but who wants to spend an additional $50-$100 after spending $100-$250 for an iPod?

I'll sell my Copland before I sell my Michell, though...

― Michael Jones, Thursday, 30 April 2009 17:24 (3 years ago)

Nope, the Michell went the week before the Copland. But that's because I had to re-list the Copland...

People will always choose convenience, why wouldn't they, it's a perfectly rational equation

That's definitely part of it, but I think cost plays a larger part. I mean, decent headphones can dramatically improve ipod listening (depending on the bitrate of the files, a variablealmostnever addressed in articles like this), but who wants to spend an additional $50-$100 after spending $100-$250 for an iPod?

― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:32 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

monoprice headphones are 20 bucks and supposedly sound great

Also I know tons of ppl that own, like, ipads and won't spring for semi decent headphones

But hell I grew up on walkman & cassette

I was talking to someone yesterday about music and ipods, we have similar size record collections and he'd just got a new 32 gb nano and was having trouble filling it up, and I was saying I could fill my 160 gb classic twice over. I then asked him what bit rate he ripped his cds at - "Oh, 128 kbps" he replied. I said I had all mine at 320 kbps and nothing less. "But it sounds alright at 128" he said, adding "And the Apple earphones that came with it sound great". It was at that point I gave up the argument. Some people care and some people don't.

there must be several john harris threads, including (iirc) 'rip john harris', please use them

I was surprised to see new vinyl 45's of like Hendrix & other iconic bands at a Target store over the weekend. They were packaged in a gift box with a t-shirt, but still, vinyl records @ a target!

I was talking to someone yesterday about music and ipods, we have similar size record collections and he'd just got a new 32 gb nano and was having trouble filling it up, and I was saying I could fill my 160 gb classic twice over. I then asked him what bit rate he ripped his cds at - "Oh, 128 kbps" he replied. I said I had all mine at 320 kbps and nothing less. "But it sounds alright at 128" he said, adding "And the Apple earphones that came with it sound great". It was at that point I gave up the argument. Some people care and some people don't.

― Rob M Revisited, Wednesday, December 26, 2012 7:06 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you have to reach out and give some love to these people, sit them down for a side-by-side comparison of their favorite song on cd and mp3, maybe get them a little stoned beforehand, make some popcorn.

these... imaginary people. these... irl socks.

As Skot and others have noted, an article on the subject actually WORTH it.

http://thewire.co.uk/in-writing/essays/collateral-damage_numero-group-on-the-vinyl-bubble

Good piece, and timely; I've been having a twitter chat with a handful of vinyl-head friends of mine about the increasing occurrence of bad pressings this year; anecdotally it seems as if quality control has gone down - "Savages, Vampire Weekend, Suede, Lubomyr Melnyk have all required three copies this year. Several needed two" - was one comment.

Vinyl's been marketed in such a way that people assume it's a premium product from the off, but, whilst demand has increased, I doubt the infrastructure is any better than it was 3-5 years ago, so it seems as if corners may be being cut in manufacture. I also understand that the gimmicky packaging foibles outlined in that Wire piece - coloured vinyl, decorated vinyl, weird speeds, etc - are usually more tricky to manufacture and no good for sound quality, which is part of the promise vinyl is being sold on.

yup, I stopped buying new vinyl a couple years ago after figuring out that pretty much every LP I bought sounded like crap. Why pay extra for a product with sibilance on every S?

hmm I almost just ordered the Vampire Weekend vinyl yesterday... altho tbf I buy mostly old vinyl. or reissues. new stuff I tend to purchase digitally.

Half of the ridiculous format gimmicks cited were at the hand of Jack White alone. The point stands but it's not like liquid filled records are as common as clear vinyl for instance.

Otherwise the article is a bit too true.

It's hard to not get caught up in the guilt associated with not owning the limited pressing of a new or reissued record. So many releases come in at least 2-3 versions and the practice is so interwoven that it kind of trains buyers, and many times I fall victim admittedly, to desire to own a copy over the desire to actually play it.

― Evan, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:56 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Trying to fight that mindset- it's particularly tough because as a kid I LOVED to collect cards... so that compulsion just kind of carried over and applied itself to my music collecting.

― Evan, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:58 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

xpost from other thread...

yup, I stopped buying new vinyl a couple years ago after figuring out that pretty much every LP I bought sounded like crap. Why pay extra for a product with sibilance on every S?

― skip, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:24 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Last two records I bought new on vinyl were Dylan's Tempest and Iris DeMent's Sing the Delta. Tempest had sibilant S's on some songs. Delta had inner-groove distortion. Both were on heavy-ass vinyl, but I never had those problems with older (or thinner) records.

i think the pressing plants are just at maximum overload. reading how the big plant down south is running 24 hours a day 7 days a week there are gonna be fuck ups. until people actually start opening new ones. and how likely is that? plus, the equipment is old. and the people who really knew how to make records are old too or retired or dead.

so much vinyl being churned out in eastern europe on soviet-era machines.

Yeah, the 180g thing is snake oil.

one good thing about new 180g is that its less likely to be warped. i see a LOT of newer regular weight vinyl that is warped. again, i think that's because of plants rushing to fill orders.

like if you are gonna pick up any of the Scorpio cheapo sun ra reissues, always go with the 180g. the regular versions are almost guaranteed to be warped.

was speaking with some people who run labels recently and they say the issues with the pressing machines are that demand is so high that one of the european pressing plants actually retrieved a machine they'd gifted to a museum so they could keep up with their output, but the profit margins aren't high enough to produce any further pressing machines - that the tools to build these pressing machines themselves no longer exist.

^^I read somewhere that part of how the plant in Texas is still going is the owner purchased gear from plants as they closed, and they use that stuff for parts on their machines.

That article is mostly OTM, but this bit seems far-fetched to me:

The vinyl marketplace is probably permanently contracted, but rather than over-serving the superfan, it should pivot toward super-serving the casual fan. Anyone should be able to walk into any record store in the world and buy a standard vinyl copy of Nevermind for a reasonable price, rather than confronting the 180 gram pressing or the deluxe quadruple LP that fishes for their cash from a lofty wall display.

Vinyl players cost extra money, vinyls are a hassle to use compared to digital formats, plus they require more storage room... I'd say the vinyl market hasn't had chance of attracting casual fans ever since CDs became popular. Why would someone who's not a music geek buy vinyl, when he can get the same music in in a more convenient and easy-to-use format? The supposed idea that "vinyl sounds better" is not something casual fans notice or care about either.

The Daft Punk album, after all the audiophile hype, doesn't sound that much better on LP than on CD.

Thinking that vinyl objectively “sounds better” is wrong anyway, different? yes, and I love it for that, but lossless digital formats will usually technically be better - probably 90% of the albums you buy have been digital at some point before the pressing stage.

(To pick a figure out of thin air)

Jonesy has dropped science on other threads (one about minidisc for instance) in the past about how digital objectively sounds better than vinyl. Some people just prefer vinyl sound.

i guess vinyl could sound better, but i'm betting the entry-level price for a record player that would make vinyl sound better would be much higher than a similarly serviceable CD player or ipod dock etc. personally, i'm no audiophile, i just love the ritual of putting it on and the big sleeve and the smell and all that.

you can get a nice older turntable for 200+ that will make records sound very nice.

here's one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-506-Vintage-Turntable-with-Ortofon-TKS-55E-Cartridge-/330939973368?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4d0d8f3ef8

nice too:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-ELECTRONIC-212-TURNTABLE-Belt-Drive-/221240112432?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3382f03530

oh there are loads of nice turntables for sale that won't kill your wallet. most people are lazy though. and don't want to be bothered. there's no actual law that says you have to care about good or great sound reproduction though. or care about analog sound. but for people who are into it its not a big deal. i've been listening to records for 44 years and its never been a big deal or a hassle. its one of the easier hobbies to have. there are records everywhere. and the more you learn and know the more fun it can be.

the profit margins aren't high enough to produce any further pressing machines - the tools to build these pressing machines themselves no longer exist.

― data halls and oate (stevie), Friday, June 14, 2013 3:15 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They're called "machinists". Look into them, record companies.