rolling "Is This Racist?" thread

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Yeah, I guess exploitative and colonialist (is that the right word?) more than captial-R RACIST, but still like; who does a video treatment that;'s like "OK, you're hugging black kids for four minutes"

obv the answer is "the dude who directed the new Kings of Leon video, whose name somehow has not yet made it to the bits of the Internet you can hit within 5 minutes of using Google"

(that more than anything else is making me lol, like whoever this was basically went "I'll do this for you and it will be awesome! I don't want any credit tho" *waits for shitstorm*)

juggalo iglesias (HI DERE), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

carles is slippin -- passion pit already did the "hire a choir of underprivileged minority youths" thing

J0rdan S., Monday, 20 September 2010 19:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

he's not even listed on the mtv site, which is usually v good about putting directors up in there

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

gonna lol if it was Hype Williams

juggalo iglesias (HI DERE), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

the video and song are both unmentionably terrible w/ stupid and retrograde notions about race but i don't think they are simply ~racist~

Chinedu "Edu" Obasi Ogbuke (nakhchivan), Monday, 20 September 2010 19:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

Sophie Muller directed it.

Kerm, Monday, 20 September 2010 19:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

more offensive for not being funny

bnw, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 01:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

that was a fake

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

but it was racist because someone realized that they could spell "nigger" by a video game and they set up a soccer video game and took a photo of it and sent it all over the internet

so yes, racist

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

this isn't a thread for lol racism, fyi. keep that shit to "encyclopedia of racist products" or, like, 4chan

my friend flocka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

strictly concern trolling in here.

Kerm, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

I figured it was some soccer thing. Wouldn't have been surprised if it had been real.

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 03:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

take it to i love footy

p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 04:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

love the gawker update where they act like they understood the joke from the beginning

jeff, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

barf

maybe LJ is right about ilx being the smartest message board

my friend flocka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://hipsterhitler.com/

p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

gawker isnt a message board

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

ilx is my favorite blog

markers, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:44 (4 years ago) Permalink

MIXMASTER
RACE

EASTSIDE
WESTSIDE
GENOCIDE

p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 05:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

is anti-semitism racist or not, because this guy at the bar I frequent is convinced that Birth Of A Nation was produced by Jews & that the Jews control the media etc etc

I know it sucks either way just wanted 2 know ur opinions

4 my muthafuckin mods (crüt), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 06:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Of course anti-semitism is racism. It's just that racism against Jews has acquired a term of its own, probably because discriminating them has been so prominent historically.

Where it gets tricky is when anti-Israel or anti-Zionist statements are equated with anti-semitism; of course some anti-Israel/anti-Zionist people are also anti-semitists/racists, but many of them aren't. But your case is pretty obviously racist because the target is Jews as a whole, not Israeli politics or anything.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 06:56 (4 years ago) Permalink

are the finns a race?

mookieproof, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 06:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ca. 300 Finnish Jews fought in the War alongside the German Army[3][4]. The field synagogue operated by the Finnish army was probably a unique phenomenon in Europe.

Guess they didn't have Google then either.

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 14:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

take it to i love footy

― p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3),

jesus way to zing an entire bord of innocents wtf

i dont love everything, i love football (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 14:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Subtle "Americans don't like soocer and aren't racist" undertones there

Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 14:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

yeah really i'm getting some prety bad vibes offa this zorn character. bet he's norwegian/icelandic thor worshipper

i dont love everything, i love football (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 14:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

zorn smash

p.m.s.b. (pre-mall smoke bomb) (zorn_bond.mp3), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 15:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

is this chorus racist?

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 18:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

?

my friend flocka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

http://dasracist.net/

am0n, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

idk singing about sippin syrup like three 6 and getting "slizzered"

it's a bit 3oh3 minstrel

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

i can def see that

my friend flocka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

Man, if it's wrong to make fun of people who drink cough syrup to get high, I don't wanna get high.

doobieborther, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

How does all the lol ghetto retard stuff on lamebook.com fit into this thread? Not sure if I'd rather it be real or fake.

zomg_bong.mp3 (Kerm), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think a bunch of well-off white people looking at it on their MacBook Pros and laughing at it through a mouthful of Whole Foods salad bar is pretty racist

my friend flocka (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

glad I'm broke, on a dell, and had chili for lunch then.

zomg_bong.mp3 (Kerm), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

black people eat Whole Foods salad bar, too

sarahel, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

so like, on a pitchfork scale of 0.0 to 10.0, where 10.0 is a lynching, and 0.0 is Martin Luther King Jr. enjoying a cup of coffee while making breakfast, in his pajamas, humming a soft song to himself, where would the MacBook Pro thing fall? where does this comment fall?

I think this thread, while started with the noblest of intentions, has been a failure. And the reason I believe it has failed is that we (as a society) are so resigned to simply declaring something racist or not, as if it's binary, instead of attempting to quantify exactly how racist something really is, using numerical scales.

del griffith, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:23 (4 years ago) Permalink

that scene from Louie where the school bus breaks down in Harlem and he reassigns the black kids the window seats: greater than 1.2?

*folds hands, rests elbows on desk, places chin on fingertips, looks up and slightly to the left, thinks*

del griffith, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think you've anticipated an exciting new direction for Pitchfork Reviews Reviews

sarahel, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

God, this fucking thread. Is this racist? Is it? Well? I need something to be outraged about, fuckin' tell me!!! Ugh.

SourPatchCorpse, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dont think anyone is really all that outraged tbh

J0rdan S., Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Was Dr. King's morning coffee fair trade or unregulated?

http://tinyurl.com/vrrr0000m (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:38 (4 years ago) Permalink

Exactly, this thread isn't about being outraged at these things, it's about discussing them, and learning from them, and analyzing peoples motivations, gaining valuable insight into contemporary race relations, and proposing solutions for a more equitable society. Which is why it is essentially ineffectual, and why we should focus on merely assigning submitted material a score.

del griffith, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

we can't be sure, can we, so let's kick it up to 0.8

('_') (omar little), Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp that is not for me, as a MacBook Pro owner, to say

del griffith, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

jk i don't really own one of those racist fuckin computers ;p

del griffith, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 19:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

venti frap all over the keyboard

jeff, Tuesday, 21 September 2010 20:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

the affirmative action case that old guy references is fairly recent, though

Nhex, Friday, 17 October 2014 01:28 (6 days ago) Permalink

I'm worried my argument might boil down to "the ignorant statements any given white person is likely to make will reflect only a narrow subset of all the possible ignorant things white people in america can believe"

this is not so far off though! and maybe an accurate thing to apply to most any culture's dominant class/color/ethnicity

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 October 2014 01:55 (6 days ago) Permalink

xp sorry I just assumed it was older because lol news cycles... would it at least be fair to say that the interpretive framework through which the Old White perceives an affirmative-action-related lawsuit is basically unchanged since the 90s? because I'm pretty sure that, if you had asked him in 2002, there would have been some high-profile case in the past ~5 years he could have pointed to just as easily, to make the exact same point.

btw my gut feeling is that this tendency is less pronounced among millennial whites, but I could be totally off the mark there... I've definitely encountered the second-generation affirmative-action grievance before ('my uncle was passed over for promotions at THREE different companies!' type shit)

Vomits of a Missionary (bernard snowy), Friday, 17 October 2014 03:14 (6 days ago) Permalink

I think I uktimately agree with this dude and what he's trying to do but I'm not very likely to check out the rest of this

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:05 (6 days ago) Permalink

I’m going to be frank. I’m not really interested in hearing white folks talk about race or whiteness. I’ve been a minority in majority-white spaces since I was 12 years old. I feel like I know what your subjects are going to say. Why should I take the time to watch?

I would say that people like you and me who have thought about race a lot and have been around and processed it, maybe that’s not who this project is for. But, again, I go back to all these women of color who’ve written me from Albuquerque to Australia, who’ve said it was really painful but incredibly cathartic to hear what white people say when they’re not in the room. That’s all I can say.

Are you afraid that you’ll end up creating caricatures of white people? How will you avoid that?

I certainly hope not; that’s not my intention. I think that’s an issue every time you do a project on race: People always try not to see themselves in the people up there on the screen. One of the reasons why I did it in Buffalo is because when people think about race they think about the South. When I did “Two Towns of Jasper,” people would say, “That’s not me. That’s the South.” But you’d be in denial as a white person if you didn’t admit that you hold some of the most discomforting things [said in “The Whiteness Project”]. When Deanna says white people think black men are inherently violent, she’s not saying something that people don’t know. And I’m not sure why I’m getting attacked for saying something that’s true. All she’s saying is something that’s representative of 40 percent of white Americans. I don’t think it’s that radical to acknowledge it. You can caricature [“The Whiteness Project”] but you’d be missing an opportunity to examine perhaps for yourself why and how what’s being said relates to you—as opposed to attacking person saying it. It’s not about these particular individuals. They represent common views. I don’t want people tying this whole thing to those particular 21 people in Buffalo. I commend and respect them. And I am incredibly grateful that they agreed to participate.

Have you talked to anyone involved in the series since it went live last Friday?

Yeah. One person told me he values and believes in what I’m trying to do. But he also says he’s nervous about the effect it’ll have on everyone. You know, I’m happy to become the punching bag for this project but I really hope these 21 people don’t become the punching bag. They took a leap of faith about being honest and it’s terrible to think that then you get punished for it. Everyone’s always saying they want an honest conversation about race but then when you have one, you can’t punish people when they speak their minds—especially if they’re not attacking you. And certainly if you want to bring someone along [in their understanding of race] and make progress, attacking them does not advance the conversation.

In the responses you’ve gotten since last Friday, what’re the three common themes you’ve picked up?

One: “This is amazing, Thank you for doing this, This is the most incredible thing I’ve seen.” Two: “I don’t understand it.” Three: “You’re a fucking asshole”—and, “You all just should die.”

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:08 (6 days ago) Permalink

I don't need to watch this; I can get exactly the same results by going to pretty much any family gathering.

bippity bup at the hotel california (Phil D.), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:10 (6 days ago) Permalink

I think I uktimately agree with this dude and what he's trying to do but I'm not very likely to check out the rest of this

― 💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Friday, October 17, 2014 11:05 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^

example (crüt), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:10 (6 days ago) Permalink

me three i think.

everybody i've shared that link with gives me serious side-eye and then asks why i want them to watch it.
"discussing whiteness" among liberal white people is an immediately suspect thing to do.

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:12 (6 days ago) Permalink

Just throwing out there that one of the reasons white people don't have anything to say about whiteness that isn't about non-whiteness is that whiteness is already, as the metaphor goes, the water we're swimming in. What do you say about air? What do you say about the sun coming up in the morning?

Orson Wellies (in orbit), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:18 (6 days ago) Permalink

when you grow up as effectively the ONLY black person in your town, the white ppl around you sometimes forget you're black and expect you to parrot this shit back at them, so I haven't really felt like I've learned anything other than new and exciting ways to roll my eyes

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:19 (6 days ago) Permalink

Basically it just demonstrates that whiteness is the baseline of "normal" for white people and everything deviating from it is what's up for discussion.

Some of us don't need this demonstrated but it's okay if not everything is for you/me/us. Like Dan said.

xp Well sure.

Orson Wellies (in orbit), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:21 (6 days ago) Permalink

xxp it's warm, it's cold, it's humid, it's bright, it's dim, it's oppressive, it's stifling, it's open, it's freeing, it's beautiful, it's bleak
no shots fired at you orbit, but lacking an opinion or perspective on your inherent/unearned role in the place where you live and the culture where you do your business strikes me as lacking in self-awareness and empathy

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:25 (6 days ago) Permalink

this seems of a type (though better and more thoughtfully constructed) with the videos Sarkeesian is putting out on video games.

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:26 (6 days ago) Permalink

lacking an opinion or perspective on your inherent/unearned role in the place where you live and the culture where you do your business strikes me as lacking in self-awareness and empathy

― Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Friday, October 17, 2014 3:25 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, I rather think that's the point.

Orson Wellies (in orbit), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:36 (6 days ago) Permalink

your post about "the water we're swimming in" etc read to me as if you were arguing clueless whiteness as an understandable (and perhaps forgivable) state of self; i'm suggesting it doesn't take much imagination to avoid.

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 October 2014 15:58 (6 days ago) Permalink

I think you read that post exactly 100% wrong wrt tone

💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Friday, 17 October 2014 16:00 (6 days ago) Permalink

could be.

Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 October 2014 16:01 (6 days ago) Permalink

whiteness is really more about in-groupness than anything else. if you meet someone new and they conform to a general blandness then they code as white.

not sure if it was on that whiteness project page or elsewhere but the dumb idea that all these people of color or distinct ethnicity have a homeland they could return to if they don't like it here in 'merica is pretty much the core of unexamined assumptions about who and what you actually are in society

⌘-B (mh), Friday, 17 October 2014 16:43 (6 days ago) Permalink

I'm gonna come across as typically clueless but I'd like to see "general blandness" interrogated. I can relate to that judgment of whiteness but I don't think I understand well what I'm relating to.

droit au butt (Euler), Saturday, 18 October 2014 10:54 (5 days ago) Permalink

I would like to see "whiteness" and "general blandness" divorced as concepts.

Blandness is the absence of flavour. It is the concept of whiteness as not-a-thing - when it is not not-a-thing, it is itself a carefully constructed pose represented as a default.

That positioning "whiteness" as "Mayo" or "Vanilla" is a more helpful way of looking at it.

Mayonnaise has a flavour! It has a creamy, oily, slightly eggy flavour that you learn not to notice when you have been eating sandwiches soaked in mayonnaise your entire life. Vanilla also has a flavour! That one has learned to eat vanilla ice cream, and thinking of it as "not a flavour" without noticing that ice cream itself has the physical sensations of sweet, fatty, cold, and vanilla itself has a flavour which is actually distinct from eating plain cream. One only thinks of vanilla ice cream as "not having a flavour" in comparison with rocky road or mint chocolate chip. But compared to a glass of water, milk has a very definite flavour. It's a flavour we've been trained through familiarity not to notice. (And milk is an even more apt comparison, because Northern Europeans are pretty unique among humans through having a weird mutation which allows us to digest milk as adults!)

Equating "whiteness" and "blandness" is dangerous because it ignores all this. Equating "whiteness" and "default" is more to the point, because one can relearn viewing "default" as "one position among many available positions" as opposed to the "total lack of positionality" that "blandness" implies.

Jacques Lacan let me rock u; let me rock u, Jacques Lacan (Branwell with an N), Saturday, 18 October 2014 11:45 (5 days ago) Permalink

Your food examples are great, raising points about those flavors of food that get cast as bland. Mayo, the devil's condiment, has a flavor (I am told) that is easy not to notice; same with milk. Are they cast as bland because they're familiar to "white folk" as the tastes of "their" culture? I don't know. My father comes from Latin America and finds much "white person" North American food inedible because, he says, it's bland. He'll load that food up with salsa and then it's ok. I think that putting chilis on food doesn't code as bland to my father on account of its being "his" culture's taste. Instead, he'll say it burns his mouth, and that's not bland. So there's something about food blandness, it seems, that exceeds mere cultural familiarity.

But if that's right, then is there an analog to whiteness there?

droit au butt (Euler), Saturday, 18 October 2014 12:41 (5 days ago) Permalink

No, because I think that that is where the metaphor falls down.

Because there is an actual quality of 'blandness' in real food - as when drinking water, pure distilled water has no taste. But there is no race equivalent of 'water'! Even when talking about "whiteness" as default, we see this when comparing American whiteness to e.g. British whiteness. There are very distinct and noticeable differences which show that there is a thing, there is a quality, a presence there, it's just a presence that has become invisible through sheer familiarity. (I would compare American Whiteness not to blandness, but to... sweetness. Or a specific sugary taste. Like, when I visit the States, I am struck by how sweet all of the food is, even savoury food. Yoghurt, bread, sauces, cereal, tinned beans - everything tasted so highly sugared that I ended up having to go to special 'natural' shops to get unsweetened versions of things, for a taste I was more familiar with!)

When thinking about whiteness in this way, I think it's more helpful to think about it in terms of accent. Everyone - even native speakers - speaks English (or Spanish, or Arabic, or other multi-nation languages) with an accent. Your own accent is almost never noticeable to you, until confronted with an accent that is different from yours. Accent is always perceived in relation to someone else. There have been various attempts to standardise accents e.g. the whole idea of Received Pronunciation in British English - no one in British actually natively speaks with that accent! But the closer one's accent is to that accent, the less "accented" one's English is supposed to sound. (Even though R.P. is itself an accent, and a forced, unnatural one at that!)

Whiteness is like that; it's conforming to an artificially decided "standard" of an accent which works to make you appear accentless, when really, there is no such thing as speech without accent. There is no such thing as "blandness" in accent. There is just closer or further away from familiarity, or from an artificial standard. Whiteness functions as a cultural standard in the same way.

Jacques Lacan let me rock u; let me rock u, Jacques Lacan (Branwell with an N), Saturday, 18 October 2014 13:52 (5 days ago) Permalink

Yes, that all sounds right to me.

Then I wonder: what is the quality, or presence, of American Whiteness?

I realize that many of you will be laughing at me at this point, and I deserve it. But it's where I was raised, and where I feel culturally alien, and where I keep trying to run away from because it doesn't interest me, and I want to know: what is it that doesn't interest me? It's not that it's bland, it has a presence, a flavor, that's it's own; but what is this flavor?

droit au butt (Euler), Saturday, 18 October 2014 14:13 (5 days ago) Permalink

I hope we don't find out. Unless we are talking about the relative pallor of someone's skin, we are talking about an illusion.

I'm old enough that I can't get past it as a concept defended and enforced by segregationists.

Was surprised to see Jews included, and some of them don't even look white. The people saying the most racist things probably would not have accepted Jews back in the day. I don't like the fact that these racist whites are being told that these Jews are "white like them".

Threat Assessment Division (I M Losted), Saturday, 18 October 2014 14:22 (5 days ago) Permalink

I didn't mean bland as in opposed to flavor, just perceived as to have no inherent distinguishable qualities.

lacking strong features or characteristics and therefore uninteresting.

There have been various attempts to standardise accents

In the US, this is the "general american" accent, also known as the broadcaster's accent. A large portion of americans speak generally within its bounds, although there's only a small swath in the midwest where it's the "native" accent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American

The idea of "whiteness" in the US is completely wrapped up in entrenched monied/patriarchal/political power structures. If you don't sound or look particularly different from a perceived "white" norm then you can fall into it. It is not an inclusionary definition, it is exclusionary. If you can't be defined as "not white" then you're white.

⌘-B (mh), Saturday, 18 October 2014 15:34 (5 days ago) Permalink

I guess I should note that "general american" is not an attempt to standardize accent, it's just adoption of a particularly unextravagant accent as a norm for purposes of broadcast news.

⌘-B (mh), Saturday, 18 October 2014 15:36 (5 days ago) Permalink

Accent is a good example of whiteness norms - you're expected to assimilate to some "standard" if you want to move up in the world.

A shame this whiteness thing brings up stuff like, "why do black people talk about slavery"? I'm having a major conflict on my Facebook h.s. group over something more subtle - how even allegedly "sensitive" white people prefer to move away from the "inner ring" burbs. The less white these burbs get, the less desirable they are. As in, "I don't want to live near a fried fish joint, my home value will decline." To the point that people I thought were my friends have referred to my neighborhood as "ghetto". If that isn't white...

Threat Assessment Division (I M Losted), Saturday, 18 October 2014 17:56 (5 days ago) Permalink

So there's this:

cardamon, Saturday, 18 October 2014 21:45 (5 days ago) Permalink

Eh, this guy talks the talk, but I get the feeling he can't walk the walk. If he's all that's standing between me and the land of the long weekend, I think we're homefree.

how's life, Saturday, 18 October 2014 22:26 (5 days ago) Permalink

pplains, Sunday, 19 October 2014 04:09 (4 days ago) Permalink

hasnt been updated in 2 days, seems like a record, nice work america

deej loaf (D-40), Monday, 20 October 2014 06:31 (3 days ago) Permalink


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